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The portraits


WILDFIRE

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If there won't be any animated portraits, at least allow mod makers to create and add them in.

 

The NPCS or important characters you come across in the game, I think should have a bit more movement when they're talking, instead of a flat still picture. Seems a little cheap. But there again, mods might be able to fix it.

Edited by Acid
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  • 3 weeks later...
On 8/28/2022 at 9:49 AM, Biff said:

I hope they don't animate the portraits, because it's just too easy to screw up. I'm a big fan of JA:Back in Action, but the portraits on there are ridiculous. They look like clones and move in sync at times... Scary stuff!

Untitled1.png

Completely agree with this. JA2 got it perfect. Back in action looks like a horror show ^^ Looks nothing like the originals at all. Sorry for the harsh criticism.

Haven't checked JA3 portraits yet, but they should not overcomplicate it. To me, in JA2, it was the voices that conveyed most of the emotions. And that's another piece of brilliance to it. The voice actors did an amazing job and had great direction. It doesn't have to be so incredibly detailed or complex. It just has to be made well.

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JA2's portraits and voices had great diversity. I found it easy to quickly find favourites amongst all the mercs. Some of the mercs you really wanted to hire due to their profiles but because to their cost, you knew you had to wait for some time. That made it all the greater when you could afford them.

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  • 2 weeks later...

@Taurean: The point is that these animated lively faces directly talked to you in JA2. I dont think stiff pictures with voice acting can transport the emotions enough.

 

The details on the portraits/faces like blinking with the eyes or that the mercs moved their mouth really gave the dialogues charm that is so unique in Jagged Alliance.

 

Sure the voice acting is as important so I hope the devs choose the right voices for every merc and that the dialogues are well written and directed. We have not seen much JA3 gameplay yet with voice acting so lets see how this will develop in the end. 

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4 hours ago, WILDFIRE said:

@Taurean: The point is that these animated lively faces directly talked to you in JA2. I dont think stiff pictures with voice acting can transport the emotions enough.

 

The details on the portraits/faces like blinking with the eyes or that the mercs moved their mouth really gave the dialogues charm that is so unique in Jagged Alliance.

 

Sure the voice acting is as important so I hope the devs choose the right voices for every merc and that the dialogues are well written and directed. We have not seen much JA3 gameplay yet with voice acting so lets see how this will develop in the end. 

Sure sure, i didn't mean to cut it out completely, i meant that having it in too great detail maybe isn't the most necessary thing. I mean it may not be the area to spend the most money or effort. But i agree it is an essential and vital part of JA 1 and 2 and should absolutely be a part of JA3.

Or maybe? ^^ Maybe having very detailed face expressions could be the one key factor that sets JA3 apart from all other game series. And the same way in having options to react to NPC's and such. As in how to get more information out of them or persuading them to help you and such - which was a big part of JA2.

I'm just scared if it gets too complicated. Not quite sure what i'm apprehensive of. I feel that the core dynamic that made JA1 and 2 great was getting teams together, making them work together and the journey of taking over the entire map. And all the details in that.

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I wouldn't worry too much about the end result in whether the portraits are animated or not, but that is just my opinion. As I said before, the new portraits for JA3 are more complex than previous games in the series. They look hand painted, as opposed to 3D rendered or mouse drawn with a 2D art program. Those old portraits from JA2 were much simpler and in a lower resolution. They were easy to animate blinking eyes, eyebrow and mouth movement. I know I said all of this before but the hand painted portraits look a lot harder to do anything with them. There might be alternate frames that show different expressions to try to match the voice or text being said. I am not sure if having additional frames with inanimate but various other expressions would make things more acceptable for those that really want animated portraits, or whether it would make it more obvious that they are no longer animated like the old days.

From a personal standpoint, the more I think about it, the more I am okay with static portraits (and maybe additional expressions in extra frames). I think that as long as the voice acting is good enough, that will give life and personality to each of the mercenaries. Wooden voice acting will be more obvious than any fixed portrait.

A great example of two games having fixed portraits that didn't harm the characters were Baldur's Gate 1 and 2. They had wonderful voice acting that was able to give each character a uniqueness about them, with several of them being characters I still fondly remember to this day. I know I am not the only one who feels that way about them as the characters are frequently talked about in the forums for those games.

Edited by Solaris_Wave
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@Taurean: I think animated 2D portraits could look good in an 3D environment. To clarify my point of view, I dont want 3D faces for the portraits, that is I guess simply too expensive, could look really bad or is very tricky to create.

 

But yes in my opinion the animated faces are something that sets JA really apart from all the other games. For me that was so special that I still remember it to this day and no one could recreate this lively bond with your mercs and the animated portraits were a very important part in this feature.

 

As CleanAndClear mentioned here in a very clever comment AI could be the solution. It would be cheaper and faster to work with an AI that creates all the facial expressions.

 

When I think about a 2D solution I think about games like the system shock remake or the resident evil 4 remake. Take a look at the gameplay of these games. There you can see some radio conversations. Sure they are not that extremely often and I guess in RE4 they are 3D modeled faces in a video but just to get an idea what I think could look really good.

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16 hours ago, WILDFIRE said:

When I think about a 2D solution I think about games like the system shock remake or the resident evil 4 remake. Take a look at the gameplay of these games. There you can see some radio conversations. Sure they are not that extremely often and I guess in RE4 they are 3D modeled faces in a video but just to get an idea what I think could look really good.

Or most of us will know in Metal Gear Solid was radio convos, it could be done like that too which would be really great imo.

 

Check this :

 

 

 

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Yes the first old game that came to my mind for good radio portraits and conversations was also MGS. I think JA3 needs lively conversations like that.

 

A flickering hire screen and portraits are a must have to get a more authentic atmosphere. Like real radio conversations. Give us some kind of codec. When animated faces are too expensive or hard to create I think this should be possible.

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I agree wildfire, the flickering hire video with animated face gave it more life, same with the NPCs, seeing their face move when they talk added that bit more life to them.

Edited by Acid
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  • 3 weeks later...

Some merc portraits & stats may you didnt see as yet.

 

The portraits looks surely cartoony without a doubt but guess we need to get use to it but i like so far the few I.M.P. figure models (esecially the 1 with the red beret), hope they will make at least 10 male & 10 female models.

 

Btw wasnt Scully the 1 and only Australian merc that represented down under ?

JA3 Shadow - Screenshot 2023-04-20.png

JA3 Len - Screenshot 2023-04-20.png

JA3 Reaper - Screenshot 2023-04-20.png

JA3 Scully - Screenshot 2023-04-20.png

JA3 Magic - Screenshot 2023-04-20.png

JA3 Gus - Screenshot 2023-04-20.png

JA3 Blood- Screenshot 2023-04-20.png

JA3 Vicki - Screenshot 2023-04-20.png

JA3 Dr.Q - Screenshot 2023-04-20.png

Edited by LoboNocturno
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I saw more gameplay of the later sectors now and I have to repeat how beautiful the music and maps are! I am still missing the more lively portraits and conversations but besides that the game looks gorgeous.

 

Hopefully mercs like Shadow, Gus and Reaper get raw and deep voices that fit their characters. The voice acting is really important here. They must get badass voices or there will be no atmosphere in the team.

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2 hours ago, LoboNocturno said:

The portraits looks surely cartoony

Something wrong with black people. Okay, Gus and Blood actually look like cartoon black characters. But what is wrong with Vicki and Magic? Are they after plastic surgery?

2 hours ago, LoboNocturno said:

Btw wasnt Scully the 1 and only Australian merc that represented down under ?

No. He is british. Not sure, but probably JA2 description says "he looks like australian". And thats why now u think he is australian.

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@WILDFIRE Did you also saw some gameplay in the mainland and also of the legendary mercs ? I also agree the map designs are good but i feel like the maps are also small just like in XCOM2. But it seems like distance shooting is possible (didnt see it as yet but i have a good feeling for it), like from 100 m - 150 m etc with a sniper rifle.

 

 

@Lunokhod Some black people are extremely smooth though as they did plastic surgery lol, checkout Antonio Tarver (a famous boxer, who also played as the main opponent in Rocky 5), even in his mid 50s he has a face like a mid 30 person. Magic looks most definitely smoothen as in JA2 he had a angry face and surely i didnt even realise Magic was black still the day before, he looks like a dark tanned guy or latino like in JA2.

Am ok with Vicki though, she is a Jamaican and can look a lil more colourful, still looks much better then Fox or Mouse imo.

 

Oh ok cause i knew somewhere was writing Australian, it would be better though if they made him as Australian cause we dont have any merc from down under. And we got none mercs from South America, pretty disappointing imo.

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44 minutes ago, LoboNocturno said:

Am ok with Vicki though, she is a Jamaican and can look a lil more colourful, still looks much better then Fox or Mouse imo.

Actually I dont need them to be 100% copies of JA2 merc. Its okay if artist have his own vision. I try to say that it seems that artist is afraid to draw blacks. Why? Its not a racism u know, blacks have special facial features. Like big lips or big nose. I mean its not ugly. Take a look on old JA2 Ice, he is just a black guy, and then look at new JA3 Ice. He looks unreal. Have u ever seen such faces?

 

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1 hour ago, LoboNocturno said:

@LunokhodI have to agree with Ice, he looks even way younger like a teenager in JA3.

Most of the more attraktive females from JA2 are more ugly, some other characters, like ICE, are looking like a Model.

Meltdown for example is prettier than in JA2.

Overall, every merc has a medicore look. A Bad desicion, it would be much better, if there would be a diversity of good looking, normal looking and Bad looking mercs.

But attraktive females are not allowed anymore ;)

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I think color technical all mercs should look the same but right now it looks like the artist changed in the development process. 

 

Blood and Gus as an example look the same artistically but Scully, Magic and Vicky are more cartoony and feel out of place.

 

Now I know why I do not like some portraits. Artistically some fit in well like Gus while others like Vicky could be from another game.

 

I hope some portraits get a rework so that they are in line with the good portraits.

 

@LoboNocturno: I saw some later combat sectors of the game. I agree they are very small. I hope they will get way bigger and more open in the second half of the game.

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24 minutes ago, WILDFIRE said:

Now I know why I do not like some portraits. Artistically some fit in well like Gus while others like Vicky could be from another game.

Gus okay. Vicki just awful... She was beautiful black woman in JA1-2 guys. U want her in rastafari style? Okay... this is sucks, but okay. But FIX HER NOSE! JESUS CHRIST! Are u kidding me?

vicki.png

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1 hour ago, WILDFIRE said:

I think color technical all mercs should look the same but right now it looks like the artist changed in the development process. 

 

Blood and Gus as an example look the same artistically but Scully, Magic and Vicky are more cartoony and feel out of place.

I dont think, that is about the artstyle. Magic was one of the most serious guys in the game and they made a silly looking guy with a hat from the 1920s out of him.

In the game he will run around with that hat, so it is not done with some portrait chance.

Same with Ice and others. The developers just try to be funny. Bad, thats not my style of humour.

I think the differences between the merc clothes should be more subtile an appropiate to the theme. Nobody needs a suit in the jungle.

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21 minutes ago, Bloodcat said:

I dont think, that is about the artstyle. Magic was one of the most serious guys in the game and they made a silly looking guy with a hat from the 1920s out of him.

Bro i dont know who make decision about all this artstyle. I dont know, mb this guy watching too much Apex Legends or somethings. But JA title is not the Apex Legends. This shit is not working here. He is just unsuitable u know and must be fired immediately.

Can anyone here understand that its f*cking mercs, its not a fashion show... Are u guys crazy?

Put on your headphones and f*cking listen main theme of JA2...

 

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Even Shadow looks mild on the portrait and his hairs looks very smooth just like he newly outta shower and put a dryer to his wet hairs.

 

Most of the mercs appearances are seriously going to Fortnite (a popular game for teenagers) direction.

 

@Lunokhod For most people it was hard to see in JA1 & JA2 that Vicki had a rasta (dreads) on her already, it always appeared from the small sized portrait like she had short hairs, myself i realised much later after playing it. The colourful beads are may too much for a merc appearance and her face looks too innocent in JA3 but still 1 of the best looking female mercs imo after Fauda and the SWAT officer Higgins.

 

Imo the best battlefield mercenary outfit goes to the IMP with red beret (simple but good) and also Grizzly, Fidel, Fauda, Raven are good.

JA3 - IMP Red Beret.png

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I like Blood`s face in Jagged Alliance 3 but they made him look like Danny Trejo from Desperados with his outfit and endless knifes.

 

See the scene yourself :

 

 

Imo they could better make a Mexican merc Danny "Machete" Trejo like and Blood could still look a lil different. So Blood becomes very similar like Danny Trejo in Desperados.

Edited by LoboNocturno
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I think Blood looks ok, even if he does look like someone who would live in the Bronx and walk around with a portable stereo, listening to Grandmaster Flash and Whodini.

I know others have criticised the look of Fox but I think she looks good. There is a mix of beauty and brawn.

Shadow's hair looks too nice, as if he was modelling for Head & Shoulders. Maybe a shorter hairstyle would make more sense and would suit his serious professionalism.

I think Vicki looks fine.

Is Magic's cap that of a mechanic? I am getting a 70s New York vibe. Especially as it is tilted.

Maybe one too many of the portraits are featuring tilted heads down and to the right. Does anybody else think they might look better if more of them were straight on, like a profile photo?

Edited by Solaris_Wave
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