+18 content in Jagged Alliance 3 ???

[Elite77]

15 minutes ago, DonBilbo said:

And that's a good thing because...?

Are you an Anti-American?

[DonBilbo]

Are you anti-everybody else?

[Image Miroir]

3 hours ago, Elite77 said:

Also America was created with the benefit of private firearms.

It would worth a deep analysis, but I think countries who had no medieval history, who had no aristocratic structure do have a different relationship with guns.

It means young countries/societies (I'd say with less than 300 or 400 years of existence) are used to have more access to weapons, especially firearms. It's logical as medieval rulers were used to provide weapons before the war and to recover them just after. This was to avoid commoners to revolt and overthrow nobility.

Even if medieval system disappeared, this system lasted for over a thousand years and structured the part of the vision of civilians concerning firearms.

The USA had very few border feuds and they had to face a large wild territory with a relatively weak central rulership. This helped to widespread the possession of firearms. In addition the powerful gun factories/companies promoted gun ownership. At the end, almost everyone in the USA has a gun, while almost no one in Europe has one.

[Elite77]

9 hours ago, DonBilbo said:

Are you anti-everybody else?

Being against people hating on America, means you hate everybody else. I don't think that's how that works.

[DonBilbo]

4 hours ago, Image Miroir said:

It would worth a deep analysis, but I think countries who had no medieval history, who had no aristocratic structure do have a different relationship with guns.

It means young countries/societies (I'd say with less than 300 or 400 years of existence) are used to have more access to weapons, especially firearms. It's logical as medieval rulers were used to provide weapons before the war and to recover them just after. This was to avoid commoners to revolt and overthrow nobility.

Even if medieval system disappeared, this system lasted for over a thousand years and structured the part of the vision of civilians concerning firearms.

The USA had very few border feuds and they had to face a large wild territory with a relatively weak central rulership. This helped to widespread the possession of firearms. In addition the powerful gun factories/companies promoted gun ownership. At the end, almost everyone in the USA has a gun, while almost no one in Europe has one.

That’s a very interesting view on the matter. Thank you for that. 

[DonBilbo]

9 minutes ago, Elite77 said:

Being against people hating on America, means you hate everybody else. I don't think that's how that works.

And having a different opinion about gun laws makes me being Anti-American? I don’t think that’s how that works.

 

[Elite77]

15 hours ago, DonBilbo said:

And having a different opinion about gun laws makes me being Anti-American? I don’t think that’s how that works.

 

Didn't said it made you anti-American, I said it made your opinion incorrect, and you questioning why the founding of America was a good thing made you anti-American.

[DonBilbo]

Ok if you say so. I don’t think this leads anywhere. Lets get back to topic. 

[Operator_Max1993]

wouldn't mind seeing adult stuff return

[Warmonger]

PG 18. Good point which leads directly to JA3's still weak atmosphere. Although Ja3 offers all possibilities graphically, it makes little of it in the interaction beyond the fights. No shady lady, no kinpin, no porn viedo shop, no bars like those run by the Santos brothers, no funny drinking Father Jon Walker. But there's a stupid chicken named Schliemann that you're supposed to run after. There's a lot of hollow. If this is related to PG 16/18, I'm sorry.

By the way, what about the drinking bottles of the mercenaries, with which you could regenerate your stamina. Doesn't exist anymore? Was somehow a great feature.

When and how the mercenaries rest is also not entirely clear. Setting up small temporary camps would have been a good idea here, where you crouch together joke or cook delicious things that raise morale or where something else funny happens. That would help the atmosphere tremendously.

Conclusion, the atmosphere is paralyzed again. And if that is due to PG 16/18, that would be a real shame. Because if you're allowed to kill, you're also allowed to drink and have fun with other grown-up things.

signing by
Warmonger gamer of Jagged Alliance since 1995

[Lunokhod]

23 minutes ago, Warmonger said:

No shady lady, no kinpin, no porn viedo shop, no bars like those run by the Santos brothers, no funny drinking Father Jon Walker.

Pretty sure there is sort of brothel, Cacao port gangs, bars. Even church with voodoo prist.

23 minutes ago, Warmonger said:

When and how the mercenaries rest is also not entirely clear. Setting up small temporary camps would have been a good idea here, where you crouch together joke or cook delicious things that raise morale or where something else funny happens. That would help the atmosphere tremendously.

R&R: In city sectors your mercs can spend some downtime to recover faster and even gain the “well rested” status // DevDiary 9

But I agree, visualized small camp is a good idea. But its too hard for Haemimont, they are lazy and dont want to work.

Edited July 5, 2023 by Lunokhod

[Warmonger]

I'm definitely looking forward to everything that's to come, and I'll spend days and nights with it. And I already see it as the real successor to JA2. However, it is probably still very difficult to build up an atmosphere like that of JA2, which still makes you reach for this game - JA2 - even after 25 years.

[GODSPEED]

The problem with 18+ content, is it can quickly go overboard and not really feel part of the game.

JA2 had it well balanced; finding a porno magazine here and there (not so often to become ridiculous) and the twisted movie names Brenda says she's watched. 😆




JA3, hopefully, deals with it's mature subject matter in a decent way. Putting in too much 18+ content will just feel campy and cheesy. I would hope they didn't shy away from some stereotypes and cultural commentary; prostitution and STD's should be touched on.

But, I have my own thoughts that a modern game won't use much "politically incorrect" commentary or content. People already throw fits just for seeing Ivan.. so the world would fall apart and cry with too much content here. "It has to stay light and colourful."

Edited July 5, 2023 by GODSPEED

[Warmonger]

Surely no one will play JA to seriously deal with pornography. But JA2 has cleverly used a lot of the Santos bars to create an amazingly real atmosphere that is half of JA2. Even when repeated, JA2 is still fun after a long time. No matter how good the rest is, old gamers like me will judge JA3 by that, although I can't wait to get started there. Let's hope that the Americans' bigoted PG 18 doesn't get in the way too much. As a European, I don't understand anyway why in the USA underage people are allowed to kill but not drink. But that's exactly how it sometimes looks in the USA in reality.

[GODSPEED]

13 minutes ago, Warmonger said:

As a European, I don't understand anyway why in the USA underage people are allowed to kill but not drink. But that's exactly how it sometimes looks in the USA in reality.

I'm not American, but I still don't understand what you mean by that.

No one is "allowed" to kill in the USA. If you're a soldier, you're a soldier, like in ANY country. That would not give you a licence to kill, other than if you we're called to go on a battlefield.

[D13]

I'm all for mature content that qualifies as 18+, but it should not be added purely for shock value, and it should be possible to interact with those 18+ elements in a meaningful way. In JA2, some light fun like the movie titles was fine, but subjects like child labour, torture, human trafficking, and forced prostitution felt more intense. Even more so because sometimes you could decide whether to use them to your benefit or to the benefit of the people (San Mona brothel, which I believe was even censored in some JA2 versions).

Similarly, there is one enemy type that would deserve an 18+ rating while having a serious impact on the game experience:

Child soldiers.

Their occasional presence would force a moral dilemma on the player. Of course, one would have to be able to resolve such a battle in multiple ways. Doing the right thing is just more rewarding when there is the option of doing the wrong thing.

Taking the moral high ground (disarming without killing, retreating, ...) would have to be more risky or expensive than to simply kill indiscriminately. And if the player decided to attack all hostiles equally, the more sensitive mercs could become unreliable or refuse orders, like in JA2 when trying to shoot civilians or allies.

I guess a small game studio will not touch this subject, and I cannot blame them. The presentation would have to be done very carefully, and it might put off some players altogether. But it is a reality of war, and it can have a profound effect on professional soldiers to encounter child soldiers.

In JA2, Sir-tech went as far as allowing non-combatants, including children, to be killed. Which in turn made many battles more interesting: you may not have taken a shot at an enemy because of a nearby civilian. Or you may have forfeited the tactical benefits of mortars and mustard gas in residential areas to spare the populace. I once injured a civilian by accident and then felt the need to patch them up, and I still remember that many years later.

[Warmonger]

I mean you can deal as child with guns in the USA, but your not allowed to drink alcohol until you you 18 or in some states there even not before 21. You check this guns easily with youtube.

just a sample this: 

Enjoy.

 

[GODSPEED]

2 minutes ago, D13 said:

Child soldiers.

Grand Theft Auto, through it's style of freedom, has always had shock value for the 'thing's you could do.

Was the game made so you could beat a prostitute after 'having' her in your car? Probably not, but the freedom of killing anyone, punching anyone, driving over anyone... and the freedom and reality of having prostitutes means there is a freedom of action.

This alone has made the rounds in the news, made Rockstar have to fight back from being censored, banned, etc...

But Rockstar Games have the backing of money, being a huge studio that self-publishes, etc..


Haemimont Games have to walk a tight rope, as they must then answer to THQ as well. Jagged Alliance 2 was release in a time and place (I'm from Montreal as well, the sense of humour in the game was a very acceptable thing back then) where a very sharp, dark and "hot" political commentary, racist jokes and such, was ok.

Now, it is not. Again... people throw a fit because Ivan is in the game. Imagine politically incorrect stuff nowadays? Haemimont Games would be shut down by the snowflakes drowning screams.

[GODSPEED]

14 minutes ago, Warmonger said:

I mean you can deal as child with guns in the USA, but your not allowed to drink alcohol until you you 18 or in some states there even not before 21. You check this guns easily with youtube.

I myself am a gun owner. This kind of "out-of-context" crap is not only insulting to gun owners but also shows a lack of understanding context.

That girl doesn't own any gun. If that girl were to consume alcohol, her development would be hindered. Physically AND mentally!

I'm in Canada, where sports shooting and hunting are things. So what you're saying is, if I want my "daughter" to be able to shoot targets for fun, she should also consume alcohol and drugs??

Shooting a gun doesn't make you a killer. Actually quite the opposite.. that girl will develop a respect and most likely be the opposite of a person who would be dangerous.

I sincerely wished people who were ignorant of fireams owning, laws & regulations would stop posting crap they don't understand.




1. Guns are a sporting equipment; it is even in the winter Olympics and sports across the world. Wake up! Same as archery. That is what that girl is practising.

2. Guns are "uncommon". Compared to alcohol that can physically disable a person who will then drive, or might make some real stupid mistakes.. alcohol can get in EVERYONE hands quite easily, guns, even in the most liberal states are way harder to acquire.

How many teens try to get into shooting clubs vs. teens that try to get into bar and clubs. Teens do not know their own limits, do not know how their bodies react... imagine if all the teens could easily get in a drink.. then walk back out and drive!?

Common! Stop and THINK! I don't even understand the comparison between alcohol and guns honestly.

Edited July 5, 2023 by GODSPEED

[Warmonger]

With Rock Star I like Red Dead Redemption 2. Pity they gave the support up to make money only with this dammed car game. RDR 2 for sure is the best game they every made. But the kids like the cars game better. And I am an Oldie of course.

Guns? I own four: 9mm, 357 mag, 7,62 mm half-auto and a Sweden 6,5 mm. In Germany we never would let children shoot with such. It is absolutely forbidden. You must be over 16 to shoot a real gun and cannot own one before 21. But beer drinking goes with 16 and sex with 14 in good old Germany. 

And now lets look forward to JA3 and hope they do not put 2 much political correctness in it 🙂  

 

[GODSPEED]

12 minutes ago, Warmonger said:

And now lets look forward to JA3 and hope they do not put 2 much political correctness in it 🙂 

I won't hold my breath. Who knows, they might surprise me!


I used to play GTA 1 & 2 in high school. I would setup a network in computer class and play with a couple friends.

I've played every GTA since (I skipped the cartoon ones 3, Vice City), the storyline in GTA IV is good quality classic movie-style storytelling (the Godfather-type of storytelling). Very touching story, down to earth, characters that you actually get attached to. Among the better stories in video game format. GTA V was okay. Didn't really like the characters that much.. but it's a fun open world to fool around in.

[Warmonger]

Try RDR 2 Godspeed. If you like JA you will like this 2. I is an open world game which are always the best. Although it is no more supported you can play the story well and will cry in the end. It also has an online-modus, which suffers fron not being supported so that cheaters have intruded. But you have my word that you will love it.

[Raeven]

3 hours ago, GODSPEED said:

I'm in Canada

Quebecoise? (La Malice profile pic, after all 🙂)

[GODSPEED]

30 minutes ago, Raeven said:

Quebecoise? (La Malice profile pic, after all 🙂)

Québecois, yes!

Québecoise is for girls.. 😛

Good eye to catch that!

[Raeven]

6 minutes ago, GODSPEED said:

Québecois, yes!

Québecoise is for girls.. 😛

Good eye to catch that!

Lol makes sense, I'm a Quebecoise girl myself 😋

Well, 25% Quebecoise, 75% Acadienne (from Maine)

My parents never taught me French but listening to La Malice is like being at a family reunion 😂