Percentages on reticles (please let them at least be a toggled option!)

[agris]

On 5/3/2023 at 8:45 PM, agris said:

That’s great, I hope it’s the case.

If it is, the devs may want to tutorialize it for the press demo. 

Stream this week confirmed this, fyi.

[Godzilla]

agris sorry Im confused why did you respond to your own comment, did you get confused?
i saw some people claim there were some bots on this forum, i hope theyre wrong! 😉

[agris]

37 minutes ago, Godzilla said:

agris sorry Im confused why did you respond to your own comment, did you get confused?
i saw some people claim there were some bots on this forum, i hope theyre wrong! 😉

Yeah it was an open question whether or not the mercs commented on their ability to hit a target, I wanted to circle back and confirm since I saw it on the stream 

[elenhil]

Why not make the reticle's aiming circle represent the CtH, just like it is in JA2 v1.13, or sort of like it was in Phoenix Point?

[Image Miroir]

If the story is good, if the combats are is good, if the different skills are smartly exploited, it the mood is great, if you have some personalization and a lot of games. I think no one will remember the endless discussions about the CtH.

What was great about JA1 and JA2, is you could play it for a long long time.

Logically they're just fixing the last bugs now, so they should focus on the release now, and not engage on something that could delay the project.

[Godzilla]

4 hours ago, elenhil said:

Why not make the reticle's aiming circle represent the CtH, just like it is in JA2 v1.13, or sort of like it was in Phoenix Point?

i think i saw somebody else bring it up, reloecc. i wouldnt say thats smart.

chance to hit is already shown in ja3 its shown via the narrowness of the circle.

also in ja2 they had the bar to show cth wdym bud

[Stuurminator]

38 minutes ago, Godzilla said:

chance to hit is already shown in ja3 its shown via the narrowness of the circle.

also in ja2 they had the bar to show cth wdym bud

The narrowness of the circle doesn't indicate the chance to hit, just the number of AP you've spent aiming. If you aim to the maximum extent, the circle will be the same size whether you have 99% chance to hit or 1%.

JA2 did not have a chance-to-hit bar. You may be thinking of a 1.13 feature.

[Godzilla]

ja2 vanilla ja2 1.13...1.13 is pretty standard at this point may as well consider it an improvement on vanilla

[Xeth Nyrrow]

Even though I don't want CtH showing and I wouldn't use it, I don't like the explanation they gave on stream. There's no need to make 2 games as they said, just have it be a toggle with it default to off. Don't adjust the AI at all because of it, just let it be the same. If the player wants to min/max the game with numbers and it ends up being way too easy, tough luck for them but they can feel good about their precious numbers being shown.

[Godzilla]

20 minutes ago, Xeth Nyrrow said:

Even though I don't want CtH showing and I wouldn't use it, I don't like the explanation they gave on stream. There's no need to make 2 games as they said, just have it be a toggle with it default to off. Don't adjust the AI at all because of it, just let it be the same. If the player wants to min/max the game with numbers and it ends up being way too easy, tough luck for them but they can feel good about their precious numbers being shown.

oh hi, i remember seeing you from the steam forums!

i wonder why more accounts on here arent on steam its very strange. only you I remember seeing and lunokhod.

[elenhil]

20 hours ago, Stuurminator said:

The narrowness of the circle doesn't indicate the chance to hit, just the number of AP you've spent aiming. If you aim to the maximum extent, the circle will be the same size whether you have 99% chance to hit or 1%.

This. The 1.13 or Phoenix Point approach is excellent UI design: a true WYSIWYG solution which, incidentally, solves the 99% miss problem.

[Godzilla]

20 minutes ago, elenhil said:

This. The 1.13 or Phoenix Point approach is excellent UI design: a true WYSIWYG solution which, incidentally, solves the 99% miss problem.

But all 1.13 did was show aar to measure cth, no?

[elenhil]

3 minutes ago, Godzilla said:

But all 1.13 did was show aar to measure cth, no?

Don't know what aar is, but NCTH made the circle represent the possible the exact possible locations that a bullet can pass through (at some point in time unaimed shots had circles half the map wide, haha). Sort of like Phoenix Point, but in isometric 2D

[chr_isso]

23 hours ago, Godzilla said:

ja2 vanilla ja2 1.13...1.13 is pretty standard at this point may as well consider it an improvement on vanilla

na man, it's not.
there are a lot of ppl who dislike 1.13, like myself. i prefer staciatella mod for ja2.

[chr_isso]

1 hour ago, elenhil said:

Don't know what aar is, but NCTH made the circle represent the possible the exact possible locations that a bullet can pass through (at some point in time unaimed shots had circles half the map wide, haha). Sort of like Phoenix Point, but in isometric 2D

 Yes, or like in world of tanks. I posted this in another thread, but have a look at this:
This is the shot dispersion of firing your gun. If the circle excludes all shots that are not within the circle, that would be dope.

 

23 hours ago, Godzilla said:

ja2 vanilla ja2 1.13...1.13 is pretty standard at this point may as well consider it an improvement on vanilla

na man, it's not.
there are a lot of ppl who dislike 1.13, like myself. i prefer staciatella mod for ja2.

 

 

 

[Godzilla]

1 hour ago, chr_isso said:

na man, it's not.
there are a lot of ppl who dislike 1.13, like myself. i prefer staciatella mod for ja2.

Sorry but I think you're fing crazy if you dont prefer 1.13 or AIMNAS to vanilla.

[Raeven]

11 hours ago, Godzilla said:

Sorry but I think you're fing crazy if you dont prefer 1.13 or AIMNAS to vanilla.

Add me to the crazy list.

I've done a playthrough of 1.13.

Vanilla / stracciatella is.... vastly superior. Just my opinion.

1.13 doesn't even try to be a balanced experience. If that's not important to you, fine, but it is to me.

[Raeven]

also 1.13 is definitely not 'standard'. I really hope no one plays it for their first playthrough. That's like playing someone's house version of chess that has twelve new kinds of pieces your first time learning the game 🤪

[chr_isso]

12 hours ago, Godzilla said:

Sorry but I think you're fing crazy if you dont prefer 1.13 or AIMNAS to vanilla.

no need to apoligize, different poeple, different opinions.
we just need to learn to accept different opinions again...

[WILDFIRE]

The devs can play test the game all the time and if they and also streamers think the game feels good with the current combat system why have some people (that can not play the game) still the opinion it is bad?

 

Jagged Alliance is not nuXCOM! When will these people understand that? If all devs had to do what the current standard is we would all play the same game over and over again. I suggest the critics should play the game for more than 10 hours by themselves before they say the combat system is wrong. 

 

I say the devs should stick to their guns! Some people also cried over the FromSoftware Games in the beginning and now they are extremely popular. Sometimes the critics have to see the bigger picture. I do not like when devs have to back down, because some people think they know better.

 

I am definitely against an optional visible CTH, because it is against the intentional way the devs wanted you to play the game. It is against their vision. So if you want to play a game with CTH you can have that with the nuXCOMs. But JA3 is then not the game for you.

[sandman25dcsss]

On 5/3/2023 at 10:25 AM, Image Miroir said:

In FPS you don't have percentage to hit, and it's fine for everyone.

In X-Com you have them but it's influencing your game actions and sometimes it's even generating frustration (because your were so sure to hit, you find unfair not to say more, to fail).

Not having percentage to hit makes sense in the game experience of Jagged Alliance.

After, to be honest, if you don't have ammunition management you can add percentage. Who cares shooting for hours with 1% chance if you have an infinite bag of bullets.

I don't know if development team is reading these posts, but they should as there are here many people who have a deep knowledge of Jagged Alliance.

Sorry, I couldn't stop from replying despite it is an old post.

It is just too hilarious.

1) Comparing chance to hit in FPS where you, the player, are responsible for aiming and see exactly where you are shooting at to JA hidden hit rolls, really?

2) explaining that displaying chance to hit will change player actions, really? That's the point, it is not just room decoration which does nothing. Its whole purpose is to help players with decision-making.

3) complaining about player frustration from missed hints. First, it will be useful for players to learn that 99% CtH means there is 1% chance to miss. Miss completely, not even graze. Second, imagine missing without any feedback so player has no idea how it can be changed and if there was just bad luck or player's fault. Isn't it frustrating?

4) I have yet to see players shooting with 1% chance in xcom, especially during multiple turns, and especially still not failing the mission, that would be hilarious. It is actually possible in JA because player does not even realize he is shooting with 1% CtH.

5) if game is bought by JA fans only, it will be a commercial failure. Every company is interested in widening target audience to increase income.

[GODSPEED]

Not this again.

 

If you can't play a f'n game with intuition, experience and judgement...

...no one here is forcing you to buy it! Wait for the mod being released almost on game release.

 

Damn this CtH thing is ridiculous!

The ones arguing for it don't even know Jagged Alliance.

 

WE DON'T WANT NU-XCOM, WE DON'T WANT CTH!

 

This is JAGGED ALLIANCE!

[sandman25dcsss]

4 minutes ago, GODSPEED said:

Not this again.

 

If you can't play a f'n game with intuition, experience and judgement...

...no one here is forcing you to buy it! Wait for the mod being released almost on game release.

 

Damn this CtH thing is ridiculous!

The ones arguing for it don't even know Jagged Alliance.

 

WE DON'T WANT NU-XCOM, WE DON'T WANT CTH!

 

This is JAGGED ALLIANCE!

Yes, I got it. I was just shocked to see how illogical arguments are used to defend hiding CtH. The guy even received several likes for the nonsense he wrote.

[Uncle Nick]

41 minutes ago, sandman25dcsss said:

....Yes, I got it. I was just shocked to see how illogical arguments are used to defend hiding CtH....

Have you watched the DasTactic No CtH video?

The way he plays the game is an example of how we play the game. We move our mercs from cover to cover, so CtH number is not as important. If it's there, it's a help, but we are used to playing without CtH.

For example, he showed MD merc up on the watch tower. Player already knows MD is a bad shot, so whatever is on the CtH for MD is really not useful info. He still uses MD to shoot, if MD hits, everyone will celebrate. If MD misses, maybe enemy will panic or maybe not. Player already had another backup plan just incase. Ivan is the best shot, and saves the day.  

[sandman25dcsss]

4 minutes ago, Uncle Nick said:

Have you watched the DasTactic No CtH video?

The way he plays the game is an example of how we play the game. We move our mercs from cover to cover, so CtH number is not as important. If it's there, it's a help, but we are used to playing without CtH.

For example, he showed MD merc up on the watch tower. Player already knows MD is a bad shot, so whatever is on the CtH for MD is really not useful info. He still uses MD to shoot, if MD hits, everyone will celebrate. If MD misses, maybe enemy will panic or maybe not. Player already had another backup plan just incase. Ivan is the best shot, and saves the day.  

I was not going to discuss CtH, but if you want...

Thank you, but I know all that and play similarly with shown CtH, it is common tactics to use the worst mercs first so you can fix everything later with more reliable mercs.

My issue is that instead of using game to do simple math people suggest to keep merc marksmanship, weapon accuracy bonus, distance bonus, height bonus, experience bonus etc. in mind and then calculate (or estimate if you call it intuition) their total using brain. I don't play games to sum numbers, it is trivial and boring.