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Instead of complaining lets find a solution


Godzilla

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I've been watching some gameplay videos and I think people are doing very well without CtH. It makes the game more interesting than the: "Oh no! I only have a 55% chance to hit, so I'm just cowering in the bushes."

So...:

- you have a range indicator;

- you know the shooting skill of mercenaries;

- you know what successes they had in previous battles;

- sometimes they call out, knowing that they can't take a shot;

- inform you if the shot is very difficult.

Thanks to the wonders of 3D technology, you have a clear view of the terrain line and obstacles.

You have a brain, so use it!

Edited by Wigen
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5 minutes ago, Godzilla said:

I think the developers are in a difficult position. And if they continue down this path Im afraid that theyll just get more bad results when JA finally comes out.

I think developers follow the right path, at the end they'll get the positive feed back of people who'l discover a different way to play and to have fun.

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12 minutes ago, Image Miroir said:

What community? A few hundreds of no-life?

In this forum you have maybe 5 people speaking about CtH, and most of them have in mind X-Com. X-Com is a good game, but a different game; Jagged Alliance offers a different flavor, and therefore developers are right not to include CtH.

Your mistake is not to ask for CtH, your mistake is not to understand the original and specific flavor of Jagged Alliance. Therefore, if you like JA: enjoy; and if you don't, have fun with your games and stop blaming those who appreciate what you can't.

No thats a mistake forgive me.

XCOM has a bad reputation and deservedly so, but not because it showed CTH, thats silly.

thats like saying we shouldnt make 3D games because XCOM was 3D. Not every aspect of XCOM can be used to go like "you see? do you want xcom??"

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4 minutes ago, Wigen said:

I've been watching some gameplay videos and I think people are doing very well without CtH. It makes the game more interesting than the: "Oh no! I only have a 55% chance to hit, so I'm just cowering in the bushes."

So...:

- you have a range indicator;

- you know the shooting skill of mercenaries;

- you know what successes they had in previous battles;

- sometimes they call out, knowing that they can't take a shot;

- inform you if the shot is very difficult.

Thanks to the wonders of 3D technology, you have a clear view of the terrain line and obstacles.

You have a brain, so use it!

Ok let me tie a hankerchief around your eyes and tell you to manually count which tile your merc is on lol, same principle

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listen fellows, I see a lot of justificationn of CTH and thats not really what the thread was intended for.

The thread was already founded on the assumption that the devs are in a difficult position and need a way to get out of it.

If you think they are not in a difficult position, we cant have this conversation similar to how if I tell you the bridge is broken but you don't see a bridge (or how I see a problem with JA but you do not) then we cant effectively communicate.

If anybody wants to discuss what the developers can do to respond to the CTH situation which is not simply "you really want CTH and let me tell you why", Im perfectly happy to listen.

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If you aimed and hit an enemy "%" then why would you ever shoot any body part with a lower "%" hit? I think it's a good idea to delete it. People will try to shoot the same way on other parts of the body more often.

It's just a psychological thing. I fully support preview without Cth!.

Edited by Wigen
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2 minutes ago, Wigen said:

If you aimed and hit an enemy "%" then why would you ever shoot any body part with a lower "%" hit? I think it's a good idea to delete it. People will try to shoot the same way on other parts of the body more often.

It's just a psychological thing. I fully support preview without Cth!.

Its not a psychological thing it tells you a number of different things both in terms of how good that weapon is how good that merc is etc.

Feels like Im talking to zombies, no offense.

Youll hate it even as you pretend to love it, sorry to say. If the developer doesnt round about face.

Edited by Godzilla
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3 minutes ago, Godzilla said:

Feels like Im talking to zombies, no offense.

Youll hate it even as you pretend to love it, sorry to say.

No, no zombie, we just disagree.

I won't hate it, I played like that for more than a decade (experienced X-Com too) and still love Jagged Alliance for what it is.

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3 hours ago, Taurean said:

It's very simple.

Easy/medium difficulty or beginner mode: Show percentages and factors.. terrain, scope, distance etc. Learning mode.

Hard/insane difficulty or expert mode: Don't show percentages. One should know the game's mechanics.

Good idea!

I also suggested something a bit similar on Steam forums:

They should make % visible on easy/casual difficulty like you said or...as a toggle before starting a new game no matter which difficulty level you want.

But...turning that % on would lock you from accessing few Steam achievements.
I think that would please both casuals and old JA players.
Old fans would get rewarded for completing the game fully without % "like in the old days".

Unmodded JA2 never had % visible for good reasons.
For example, it just makes combat too easy and less realistic.
Soldiers/Mercs are not drones that can calculate exact % chance if they will hit enemy or not during combat. They have to react quick, no time for math when you are under attack.

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The XCOM reboot actually has a good reputation and is highly regarded by many. It was seen as a resurrection of the turn-based squad strategy genre, especially when others were few and far between, and the JA sequels after JA2 were lacklustre. Games journalists even labelled it "a breath of fresh air".

Personally, I was less impressed. While I thought it was 'ok', it felt extremely limited, with simplified mechanics, annoying design decisions and maps that were too small. I stopped playing soon after starting it. I was immediately comparing it to the original X-COM series, along with JA2 and Silent Storm. It just seemed like a pale imitation of what was and it was far too streamlined.

And yet, it remains the new benchmark of the genre, right or wrong. Just like Call Of Duty is (or was) seen as the benchmark of FPS games, which I also disagreed with. Criticisms can fall on deaf ears, when the accolades come in, the masses enjoy the game (especially if they never played this style of game before) and the journalists continually reference it.

There are quite a few that never liked the XCOM reboot and continue to prefer the original style but publishers and developers often ignore that and seek to imitate what made the biggest waves in terms of profit and numbers sold.

Edited by Solaris_Wave
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2 hours ago, Godzilla said:

"crying about it repeatedly"

Brother do you hear yourself.

I dont have ill will towards you but I think you are the vocal minority who are telling themselves its all fine before the entire thing goes sideways.

Remember Episode I. This is all starting to seem very familiar.

Bro, like I already said, I never saw episode 1 so I don't know what your talking about. I have no ill will against you either to be honest. I'm just telling you what I've seen and read for the last few months while you were not around. I was following the progress for awhile before I signed up to the forums. 

I'm not predicting the outcome of the game unlike you. I don't know if it will be good or not overall but it plays good with no CTH and is sticking true to the series.

I'm more concerned with shared ammo, the very basic inventory system, lack of Bobby Ray's, no visible equipment on characters, some of the perks and special abilities, etc, etc.

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13 minutes ago, Wigen said:

If you aimed and hit an enemy "%" then why would you ever shoot any body part with a lower "%" hit? I think it's a good idea to delete it. People will try to shoot the same way on other parts of the body more often.

It's just a psychological thing. I fully support preview without Cth!.

That is the usual case but in JA2, if I could go for the head, even though the shown chance to hit was lower, as long as it wasn't too low, I'd attempt it. Enemies often had too much armour by the end of the game and the head was obviously the fastest way to kill them.

I support having no visible chance to hit but also, not being able to choose what part to aim at unless within close distance. That would make it more interesting when a bullet surprises you and does randomly hit the head or limbs.

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3 minutes ago, DougS2K said:

Bro, like I already said, I never saw episode 1 so I don't know what your talking about. I have no ill will against you either to be honest. I'm just telling you what I've seen and read for the last few months while you were not around. I was following the progress for awhile before I signed up to the forums. 

I'm not predicting the outcome of the game unlike you. I don't know if it will be good or not overall but it plays good with no CTH and is sticking true to the series.

I'm more concerned with shared ammo, the very basic inventory system, lack of Bobby Ray's, no visible equipment on characters, some of the perks and special abilities, etc, etc.

Im concerned about those things too but cth imo is far more important. Its like choosing to not have crosshairs in an fps. It completely changes the experience.

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1 hour ago, Solaris_Wave said:

I am really getting tired of all this now. First it was @anon474, then @Woody and now you. What is with the damn insults and accusations? 

From my experience, people resort to insults and character attacks when they don't have a good argument. If they had a good argument, then that's what they would present.

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11 minutes ago, Inquerion said:

Good idea!

I also suggested something a bit similar on Steam forums:

They should make % visible on easy/casual difficulty like you said or...as a toggle before starting a new game no matter which difficulty level you want.

But...turning that % on would lock you from accessing few Steam achievements.
I think that would please both casuals and old JA players.
Old fans would get rewarded for completing the game fully without % "like in the old days".

Unmodded JA2 never had % visible for good reasons.
For example, it just makes combat too easy and less realistic.
Soldiers/Mercs are not drones that can calculate exact % chance if they will hit enemy or not during combat. They have to react quick, no time for math when you are under attack.

Brand new user?
And on this thread?
And at midnight? On a SATURDAY?
Man Im so happy this forum thread is getting so many new faces! 😆

Maybe the devs will give me a freebie for stimulating community engagement! 👍👍

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2 hours ago, Godzilla said:

Dont get me wrong. Maybe you werent lying. (And maybe you just had it on to test what Ian Currie etc were talking about, and maybe the NCTH variable is actually a reference to that ugly new UI cth which I also have turned off, I dont have JA installed to check, excuse me), but I think its safe to say that even if you're the outlier, most people are not.

Has it occurred to you that maybe people who enable CtH in 1.13, or people who play 1.13 at all, are the outlier?

1.13 isn't what sold JA2 back in the day, nor is it what made it one of the biggest names in the tactical combat genre. It was vanilla JA2 that earned that reputation, and it did it without visible CtH.

1 hour ago, Godzilla said:

A big design mistake will remain a big design mistake regardless of how people feel about it.

Do you hear yourself? You're saying that it doesn't matter whether people like the game or not, it'll still be a mistake because you declared it so.

2 hours ago, Solaris_Wave said:

You don't need a precise percentage as an indicator. You just need a vague indicator to know that shooting is viable in the first place. I have said this before. You can have a glowing outline that pulses around the target. It can get thicker or change in colour temperature to indicate that a shot is viable and you are not just going to waste a shot that never had a chance of succeeding.

It can range from: 0-25%, 26-50%, 51-75%, 76-100%

or

0-33%, 34-66%, 67-100%

I think there already is something like that. From what I've seen of the preview footage, mercs sometimes comment things like "I don't think I can hit this" or "I feel confident about this shot". I think these are indicators of a shot with a markedly low or high chance of success.

58 minutes ago, Godzilla said:

Everybody knows they made a mistake.

No, "everybody" doesn't. It's a handful of people complaining about it. I'd advise you to go back and count the number of people actually speaking out against it and reconsidering whether "everybody" knows it's a mistake.

33 minutes ago, Zwolf said:

Personally I prefer not to see CTH, though obviously I do understand how some people can be disappointed that it is missing. Making it optional would have been the best of both worlds, but then again, no idea how hard that is to implement, how much complexity it would add to the codebase and so on.

If it's optional, everybody will use it, and suffer for it.

"Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game." - Soren Johnson

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2 minutes ago, DougS2K said:

From my experience, people resort to insults and character attacks when they don't have a good argument. If they had a good argument, then that's what they would present.

Im not against combining the two mr "everything is fine also aive never seen one of the biggest movies of ladt 20 years" 😆

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I am a Star Wars fan and grew up with the originals (I was born in 1975) but I know that not everybody likes Star Wars or even science fiction/fantasy. I don't know what @DougS2Kenjoys but despite how big Star Wars is, not everybody has to like it, especially when those prequels and that last trilogy appeared, which divided even the fans.

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6 minutes ago, Godzilla said:

Im not against combining the two mr "everything is fine also aive never seen one of the biggest movies of ladt 20 years" 😆

Not everyone cares about Star Wars, especially enough to follow or care about the furor among its fanbase that happened a quarter of a century ago.

I'm starting to see a pattern of you not understanding that people have perspectives different from your own.

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1 minute ago, Stuurminator said:

Not everyone cares about Star Wars, especially enough to follow or care about the furor among its fanbase that happened a quarter of a century ago.

I'm starting to see a pattern of you not understanding that people have perspectives different from your own.

ok brother man 😆

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8 minutes ago, Godzilla said:

Im not against combining the two mr "everything is fine also aive never seen one of the biggest movies of ladt 20 years" 😆

I never claimed everything was fine so please don't strawman my position. 

I was a Star Trek fan, not a Star Wars fan, what can I say. 🤷‍♂️

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14 minutes ago, Godzilla said:

Brand new user?
And on this thread?
And at midnight? On a SATURDAY?
Man Im so happy this forum thread is getting so many new faces! 😆

Maybe the devs will give me a freebie for stimulating community engagement! 👍👍

Just old JA fan recently suffering from insomnia...

I was watching this forum for few months already but only recently I had time to watch recent Youtube gameplay videos, so I decided to finally create account and share my opinion about this game.

I see no reason for your passive aggression. Let's keep these discussions civilized.

I suggested a compromise to fans of % and people that dislike it. I hope that in the end we will all enjoy the game!

Edited by Inquerion
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