CtH poll.

[WILDFIRE]

Playing with a visible CTH in JA3 is like playing a FromSoftware Game with an easier difficulty. It is not meant to be that way. It is not designed to please nuXCOM players instead the focus is to give Jagged Alliance players a true experience.

 

Showing the CTH simply changes the whole game and experience.

[Stuurminator]

28 minutes ago, WILDFIRE said:

I think it is strange that some people think no visible CTH is totally wrong while JA1 and JA2 were the same. JA3 is true to the Jagged Alliance roots and some people still complain. There are some other elements like the not animated portraits/lifeless conversations or the inventory system that should be improved but the not visible CTH is definitely not a problem for me.

No, you don't get it. JA1 and JA2 aren't Jagged Alliance! Only 1.13 is Jagged Alliance. Literally every Jagged Alliance player agrees!

[Xeth Nyrrow]

1 hour ago, MateKiddleton said:

I already blocked him, life is good

I'm hoping at some point the mods here will realize just how much he is poisoning the conversations/community and just IP ban him. You and I both have seen on discord that fans have no desire to engage here anymore because of this one person making it an almost hostile environment.

[WILDFIRE]

@Stuurminator: v1.13 is a mod with great features but CTH is not necessarily a part of it. And no not every Jagged Alliance player agrees with you on this topic as you see in this poll and in many other threads.

[DougS2K]

I personally love the 1.13 mod and couldn't go back to playing vanilla JA2. The thing with 1.13 is that it makes the game customizable to what you prefer. I like the micro managing of LBE gear, all the little details the mod adds, and cranking up the difficulty with battles against 80+ enemies. I can see how some wouldn't like that but that's the beauty of 1.13, you have the option to play either way.

[WILDFIRE]

I also love the mod 1.13, because it adds great features like the improved inventory system and AI. But CTH was one of the features that always split the community. You can see that also in the Bears Pit Forum. It is one of the features that was not mature so if the devs of JA3 think their combat system works and feels good I trust them.

[Godzilla]

1 hour ago, WILDFIRE said:

Playing with a visible CTH in JA3 is like playing a FromSoftware Game with an easier difficulty. It is not meant to be that way. It is not designed to please nuXCOM players instead the focus is to give Jagged Alliance players a true experience.

 

Showing the CTH simply changes the whole game and experience.

So if you are truly hardcore disable saves, dont sleep for a week and cover your eyes with a blindfold.

Whats wrong, too hard for you?😆

Edited May 10, 2023 by Godzilla

[Godzilla]

12 minutes ago, WILDFIRE said:

I also love the mod 1.13, because it adds great features like the improved inventory system and AI. But CTH was one of the features that always split the community.

WHEN HAS IT EVER what lmao the degree of lies on this forum is just mua *chefs kiss*

[Godzilla]

1 hour ago, Xeth Nyrrow said:

I'm hoping at some point the mods here will realize just how much he is poisoning the conversations/community and just IP ban him. You and I both have seen on discord that fans have no desire to engage here anymore because of this one person making it an almost hostile environment.

One person making it a hostile environment?
No, I dont think thats possible.

If there is some kind of mob that was created on discord because one guy isnt going with the program, as I have already suspected, you are to blame for your own gossip and backroom chatter. You are your own problem.

In fact its quite interesting how the mods seem very very happy for groups of people to organise against a single person...as long as that group is being broadly pro developer.

[WILDFIRE]

@Godzilla: You can read that in the Bears Pit Forum and here. Not everyone was sure about the visible CTH in JA2 v1.13. Some liked it but some did not. I trust the decision the JA3 devs made when they think their system works and feels good. But we all can only judge the combat system when we play it by ourselves. So lets wait and see.

[chr_isso]

8 hours ago, Godzilla said:

Ah yes, the "kid" will be skewing that poll yep, absolutely

Not like there arent self admitted new accounts signing up just to say the voted no in order to skew the poll...

i knew you would accuse that guy to beeing a fake account. hell, you're gonna be close to be on my ignore list..

 

10 hours ago, MateKiddleton said:

I would go a step further and hide even more info, such as crit chance, enemy HP and damage reduction %. It doesn't make sense you would know these things if you don't know CtH. You shouldn't need to know exact numbers to make informed decisions in JA. JA isn't exactly a min-maxing type game and that's what I like about it. You shouldn't have to make a "crit build" or "DPS glass cannon" or "high HP tank" or some rubbish like that, it's completely unrealistic in JA.

yes! When I first saw it, i thought the crit indicator was "off" and not organic in the display of information. And the hitoints as well. Thresholds like "Normal", "Bad" and "Critical" were more than enough to know how to prioritize your targets.

 

8 hours ago, Godzilla said:

No no, difficulty is a scale.

There is no difficulty lost or gained as much as theres awkwardness lost or gained. Why would you intentionally not want to know if somebody has 20% or 40% hit chance from where they are. Youlljust end up making much better high quality decisions.

Players who are blindfolded arent playing a more difficult game, theyre playing a game that fails to communicate to them the very relevant variables that they may find pertinent.

Because making bad decisions is part of JA2 !! It's your strategy, your skills to use your mercs wisely and that implies not knowing everything all the time.
If we follow your argumentation, to get the "best high quality decisions" why not remove fog of war and show the enemies all the time? Then you can position your mercs perfectly for the best outcome possible.
If a merc tells you "ah, i'm not sure i can hit that..." what more communication do you need?
 

[Godzilla]

1 hour ago, chr_isso said:

i knew you would accuse that guy to beeing a fake account. hell, you're gonna be close to be on my ignore list...

Fake maybe not, flooding in from discord as Xeth Nyrrow has stated, entirely possible.

How else would they even know about the poll. Option 1: they were here on another account Option 2: theres a secondary conversation going on in the discord, and they come in onto the forum already aware of everything on the forum, and immediately bee-line for the topic they're interested in.

One or the other doesnt really matter, both are forms of manipulating the conversation. If theyre all coming in from discord theyre just using this forum to legitimize their point of view instead of discuss it, i.e. just here to proclaim it and leave, go back to discord. (Saw this a few times I think)

[Bearson]

1 hour ago, Godzilla said:

Fake maybe not, flooding in from discord as Xeth Nyrrow has stated, entirely possible.

How else would they even know about the poll.

You do know that this forum is public and you do not have to be signed in to read every post?

 

I hope you will stop arguing with everyone about CtH now that the poll results are in. Also, from my impressions with dev streams and their replies, the preview gameplay is probably final and no major changes are gonna be implemented at this point. So all of this arguing is moot anyway.

So give it a rest, move on and have other discussions about the game, because you seem to be capable of some rational thought at times. People are getting sick of the same thing over and over, and honestly, I am amazed by the fact that some people still try to reason with you after all this time, when it was clear to me that you are a first grade troll after 10 or so of your replies.

Sometimes your answers remind me of talking to an AI, and I wonder if someone isnt trolling all of us using a ChatGPT or something similar 😀😀

 

[Reloecc]

I wonder how some guys mention "1.13 CTH" while NewCTH system is exactly fighting percentage (red bar) system 1.13 brought at first. So what are these guys even talking about?

JA1: No CTH
JA2: No CTH
JA2 1.13: CTH visible
newest JA2 1.13: No CTH

Are you guys aware of NewCTH calculations? Based on bidirectional weapon sway, merc strength to reduce it, aiming, weapon accuracy, weapon condition. WITHOUT CTH SHOWN!

Why was NewCTH created? Because community realized that showing hit chance had its flaws! Making game easy, predictable and ammo dependent. Case closed.

Edited May 10, 2023 by Reloecc

[DougS2K]

49 minutes ago, Godzilla said:

How else would they even know about the poll. Option 1: they were here on another account Option 2: theres a secondary conversation going on in the discord, and they come in onto the forum already aware of everything on the forum, and immediately bee-line for the topic they're interested in.

Option 3: They browsed the forum without an account like I did for the first month or two and finally decided to make an account so they can partake in the poll.

Option 4: They just discovered the forums.

49 minutes ago, Godzilla said:

One or the other doesnt really matter, both are forms of manipulating the conversation. If theyre all coming in from discord theyre just using this forum to legitimize their point of view instead of discuss it, i.e. just here to proclaim it and leave, go back to discord. (Saw this a few times I think)

There is no manipulation. The poll is a simple yes or no question and can be freely answered by anyone that creates an account here. You can weave your conspiracy theories however you like but the fact of the matter is, the poll proves that you are wrong. So far there is only 1 other person that agrees with you and 26 that don't. So basically what everyone has been telling you is true. The majority of people do not want CtH shown.

[Godzilla]

3 minutes ago, DougS2K said:

Option 3: They browsed the forum without an account like I did for the first month or two and finally decided to make an account so they can partake in the poll.

Option 4: They just discovered the forums.

There is no manipulation. The poll is a simple yes or no question and can be freely answered by anyone that creates an account here. You can weave your conspiracy theories however you like but the fact of the matter is, the poll proves that you are wrong. So far there is only 1 other person that agrees with you and 26 that don't. So basically what everyone has been telling you is true. The majority of people do not want CtH shown.

Im sure 😊 Very little activity on forums for last few days, but a poll gets made and instsntly there are 20 votes some admitting to being new on the forum.

Pardon my skepticism.

[Godzilla]

7 minutes ago, Reloecc said:

I wonder how some guys mention "1.13 CTH" while NewCTH system is exactly fighting percentage (red bar) system 1.13 brought at first. So what are these guys even talking about?

JA1: No CTH
JA2: No CTH
JA2 1.13: CTH visible
newest JA2 1.13: No CTH

Are you guys aware of NewCTH calculations? Based on bidirectional weapon sway, merc strength to reduce it, aiming, weapon accuracy, weapon condition. WITHOUT CTH SHOWN!

Why was NewCTH created? Because community realized that showing hit chance had its flaws! Making game easy, predictable and ammo dependent. Case closed.

Disagree, and I dont know what modern developments have took place in JA2 modding (for last few years bears pit was pretty empty). Showing CTH doesnt make JA easier necessarily, you can just make better decisions more easily and avoid risk aversion such as putting 2 or more mercs to one enemy merc because you didnt know what the hit chances were, and could now reliably start putting  1 merc to 1 enemy unit.

All of this can be balanced for with bigger maps and more enemies.

[Reloecc]

38 minutes ago, Godzilla said:

Disagree, and I dont know what modern developments have took place in JA2 modding (for last few years bears pit was pretty empty). Showing CTH doesnt make JA easier necessarily, you can just make better decisions more easily and avoid risk aversion such as putting 2 or more mercs to one enemy merc because you didnt know what the hit chances were, and could now reliably start putting  1 merc to 1 enemy unit.

All of this can be balanced for with bigger maps and more enemies.

Are you saying you haven't played JA 1.13 with NewCTH system? Stop wasting time here making 10 post per hour and go play it, make an opinion and come back. Tell us if playing with NewCTH is or isn't harder. Go now. Release Latest (unstable) · 1dot13/source · GitHub (there is a latest 1.13 downloadable at the bottom of page, under Assets)

Edited May 10, 2023 by Reloecc

[Godzilla]

4 minutes ago, Reloecc said:

Are you saying you haven't played JA 1.13 with NewCTH system? Stop wasting time here making 10 post per hour and go play it, make an opinion and come back. Tell us if playing with NewCTH is or isn't harder. Go now. Release Latest (unstable) · 1dot13/source · GitHub (there is a latest 1.13 downloadable at the bottom of page, under Assets)

😆 No Im good I think

[chr_isso]

This is how CtH should be displayed.
you have a circle, starting in red. You spend points, you get the circle in purple. you spend max points, you get the blue circle.

Edited May 10, 2023 by chr_isso

[Reloecc]

9 minutes ago, chr_isso said:

This is how CtH should be displayed.
you have a circle, starting in red. You spend points, you get the circle in purple. you spend max points, you get the blue circle.

This image is from a 13 years old post .. it's intereseting that people back there knew how and worked hard to make a combat more rl reflecting yet enjoyable. But devs today come up with "miss can't hit other body part" and "auto-weapon dmg is halved" instead :)).

Edited May 10, 2023 by Reloecc

[agris]

@Bearson @chr_isso let me share a nice qol hack: https://community.jaggedalliance.com/ignore/?id=513

[SWi74]

8 minutes ago, agris said:

nice qol hack

Brilliant! I thought this feature must exist for this type of situation, but I looked on the troll's profile. The Ignore list is actually on our own profiles. This makes things a LOT more readable, thanks.

[Grim]

5 hours ago, chr_isso said:

This is how CtH should be displayed.
you have a circle, starting in red. You spend points, you get the circle in purple. you spend max points, you get the blue circle.

Yes, Headrock nailed it with NCTH back then, I wish more games did the same. Phoenix Point did something similar. For JA3 they chose a system closer to vanilla JA2, I can't blame them. We have to live with it and give feedback to make it work the best way possible as it is.

NCTH did at least one thing wrong IMHO, with the optics. They natively reduced the aiming cone. Instead, they should have allowed more precise aiming (more clics) at specific ranges. It has been changed over the time but never was perfect.

[Xeth Nyrrow]

Project Haven has a very similar system (demo out tomorrow I believe) with their free aim system. The bullets cluster more in the middle and different guns have better/worse spread plus based upon your marksman skill. You can see it in action here:

Project Haven: Aiming