CtH poll.

[Stuurminator]

48 minutes ago, Godzilla said:

Give me a break. Tell me how you really know about one guy so much you know their name and how they write even though they havent posted in 2 weeks, guy on a 48 hour old account 😂

Has it occurred to you that new posters are more likely to be reading old threads? They haven't read them before and this forum doesn't move fast enough to bury them.

[THQN Fabian]

1 hour ago, Godzilla said:

😂😂😂😂 I think we may have discovered where that avalanche of anti CTH voters came from 😂

We are monitoring the forums for multi-accounts, but even if most of the votes against CtH would be fake, it would still mean that only 3 people voted in favour of CtH. 

So stop this nonsense about alt-accounts and stay on topic - or we'll have to start deleting posts and close topics that get derailed. Publicly accusing other people of using alt-accounts and harassing new accounts can also lead to infractions and bans. 

[DougS2K]

2 hours ago, Stuurminator said:

Has it occurred to you that new posters are more likely to be reading old threads? They haven't read them before and this forum doesn't move fast enough to bury them.

This. I know personally, I have read all the threads here so far and the older ones were read when I hadn't even signed up for an account yet. 

All these posts are here indefinitely as there is no way to remove them on the users end. So yeah, it's easy for people to read what everyone has wrote.

[DougS2K]

5 hours ago, Godzilla said:

Not lacking in intelligence just wrong. (or they want JA3 to becomesomething very different to what most people would consider a tactics game.

This thread, my friend, will continue until JA3 is released. Because it is a key design decision that the team has made. And one of the first things any reviewer who will talk about this game will talk about will be cth and other decisions.

Whether people like it or not a lot of people will be pointing out the lack of cth either positively or negatively.

Let me ask you this. Considering most of the devs are JA2 fans, have played JA2 extensively, have had access to JA3 with and without CtH, do you not think that they are in the best position possible to determine if CtH is good or bad? I mean they have all the info they need to make a decision and from what I've seen from gameplay videos, the actual gameplay mechanics during battles looks really good and true to the series.

I have other concerns like inventory, shared ammo, etc, but actual gun battles look really good and that's an important thing to get right.

I think it's probably best to wait until we can all actually play the game to judge for ourselves but the devs and the majority of JA fans are all on the same page so far on this topic.

Edited May 15, 2023 by DougS2K

[Xeth Nyrrow]

7 hours ago, THQN Fabian said:

We are monitoring the forums for multi-accounts, but even if most of the votes against CtH would be fake, it would still mean that only 3 people voted in favour of CtH. 

So stop this nonsense about alt-accounts and stay on topic - or we'll have to start deleting posts and close topics that get derailed. Publicly accusing other people of using alt-accounts and harassing new accounts can also lead to infractions and bans. 

I appreciate the acknowledgement here. Since you made it a point to specifically comment on moderation, I will jump in here to say that I think you guys really need to consider warning then banning people for being disruptive to the forums in general. This isn't a place of free speech, but a game forum that is trying to sell a product. I'm not saying to stifle criticism about the game just bad behavior of some individuals regardless of their opinions.

Letting this continue just makes it look like your company supports toxic behavior. The whole flag thread going on for as long as it did is another example of waiting too long to do what's best for the companies' interests and appearance. I'm looking forward to further discussing the game in a less toxic environment, thank you.

[Solaris_Wave]

Not only that but this sort of activity is exactly what will deter any Haemimont developer from wanting to interact with any of us in the forum.

I really like the fact that they post here and would hope to see that continue. I don't know if that would continue if they see the endless arguments and insults.

Edited May 15, 2023 by Solaris_Wave

[DougS2K]

50 minutes ago, Solaris_Wave said:

Not only that but this sort of activity is exactly what will deter any Haemimont developer from wanting to interact with any of us in the forum.

I really like the fact that they post here and would hope to see that continue. I don't know if that would continue if they see the endless arguments and insults.

Very good point.

[Godzilla]

7 hours ago, Xeth Nyrrow said:

I appreciate the acknowledgement here. Since you made it a point to specifically comment on moderation, I will jump in here to say that I think you guys really need to consider warning then banning people for being disruptive to the forums in general. This isn't a place of free speech, but a game forum that is trying to sell a product. I'm not saying to stifle criticism about the game just bad behavior of some individuals regardless of their opinions.

Letting this continue just makes it look like your company supports toxic behavior. The whole flag thread going on for as long as it did is another example of waiting too long to do what's best for the companies' interests and appearance. I'm looking forward to further discussing the game in a less toxic environment, thank you.

Disagree with that if anything flag post is an example of good organic conversation.

[Godzilla]

7 hours ago, Solaris_Wave said:

Not only that but this sort of activity is exactly what will deter any Haemimont developer from wanting to interact with any of us in the forum.

I really like the fact that they post here and would hope to see that continue. I don't know if that would continue if they see the endless arguments and insults.

This assumes we think there is a good reason to be interested in interaction with the developers. If dialogue has broken down, and developers have acted in such a way as to signal a total difference in approach and an unwillingness to have dialogue, there is no need to try to seek it.

[Tuckwit]

On 5/9/2023 at 9:39 PM, Wigen said:

I'm not going to elaborate, I'm just going to quote what I wrote in the previous thread.

Wow! Still plagurising other peoples posts from steam then?

Almost exactly word for word what I posted on Steam on 24th of April under a thread called 'Please add [hit %]'

And the irony is you even included the 'You have a brain' part.

[Typhoon]

Just got here and I voted "no". Been a huge fan of JA2 and played all JA titles afterwards. Honestly, I couldn't care less if there is a visible indicator of my mercs hit chance or not. Some people here take this way to serious. It's a goddamn video game. Nobody will force you to get a vasectomy or anything. Relax.

[sandman25dcsss]

I voted Yes, of course. Fortunately everyone can be happy due to mod.

[Koinsky]

Being that the mod now seems to get the issue out of the way, i always felt comfortable playing the old JA2 game (missed the first one), and never got too confident on numbers. 80% chance to hit seems like a large number, and still means you miss one fifth of your shots, on average. 
Not sure how it's gonna be in JA3 but i always felt pretty confident about shooting and chances after upgrading from the early pistols (an SKS on the first fight was a God send), and once the bigger ranges and the higher marksmanships started to click in, things always went smoothly. Always found the system quite organic and intuitive.

[GODSPEED]

I won't even vote, because this is absolutely ridiculous.

It's already been said, they removed the CtH and it will be one of the first things that is also modded in game. So, everyone will be happy.

I don't even understand why this topic must continue.


Personally, I never cared for CtH, even in 1.13, always disabled it. My arguments are the same as the reason I want "abstract" mechanics like Interrupts. I DON'T want to be told or given a number to count on. I want to go with my own experience, my own judgment and my own intuition. That is how I play games. Jagged Alliance is THE perfect example for this method, because it requires experience and using mercs to be able to acquire a feel for how they perform. Just like it would if you were with them for real. That's what the game has always tried to 'emulate'.

Anyways, it was never in Jagged Alliance. Finally something I agree 100% with the devs. The way they studied the effect it had on the playtesters is argument enough for them.

[GODSPEED]

On 5/17/2023 at 10:18 PM, Tuckwit said:

Wow! Still plagurising other peoples posts from steam then?

@Wigen doesn't plagiarize anyone. He's been among the "founding" members on this community since it's inception. The amount of feedback, opinions and discussions him and a few others here have shared/discussed since then should be proof enough.

Throughout the last years, it has been a pleasure to share and exchange with members like @Wigen, @Hendrix, @Solaris_Wave, @Kordanor and some others I apologize I miss. We may not have always had the same opinion. I may have expressed mine pretty loud, but one thing is for sure, at least we were a mature enough bunch not to resort to insulting or acting child-like among one another!

 

 

[sandman25dcsss]

@GODSPEEDIf going for realism, mercs never shoot for the first time in real combat. They always practice shooting and have at least rough estimate of their chance to hit based on previous training. Rough here means "about 70%", not "yellow". 

Edited July 12, 2023 by sandman25dcsss

[sandman25dcsss]

Though I agree the poll does not make much sense. It reminds me old joke "internet poll showed that 100% people have access to internet". Obviously most forum members are JA fans and of course they like how it was in previous games, otherwise they wouldn't be here.

[GODSPEED]

1 minute ago, sandman25dcsss said:

@GODSPEEDIf going for realism, mercs never shoot for the first time in real combat. They always practice shooting and have at least rough estimate of their chance based on previous training. Rough here means "about 70%", not "yellow". 

Huh... Jagged Alliance 2; everything you do, is from a laptop. You don't know the mercs. You've just hired them based on "abstract" stats they provide and limited knowledge. From that point of view, when commanding them on a battelfield, it makes sense that you have to go by estimate. After some time, you know when they will or won't hit. CtH become irrelevant. It's also a reason 1.13 implement an option for CtH reading that isn't accurate.

Just like they implemented an option so when you enter combat, you do not see the amount of bullets left in your mag. It's meant for you to "guess" and go with your gut feeling.

[sandman25dcsss]

1 minute ago, GODSPEED said:

Huh... Jagged Alliance 2; everything you do, is from a laptop. You don't know the mercs. You've just hired them based on "abstract" stats they provide and limited knowledge. From that point of view, when commanding them on a battelfield, it makes sense that you have to go by estimate. After some time, you know when they will or won't hit. CtH become irrelevant. It's also a reason 1.13 implement an option for CtH reading that isn't accurate.

Just like they implemented an option so when you enter combat, you do not see the amount of bullets left in your mag. It's meant for you to "guess" and go with your gut feeling.

So you have time to gather info from all mercs regarding what they see, choose at which enemy and their body part to shoot, decide how carefully to aim, mercs even have time to talk, but there is no time to let you know the most important factor to decide if merc even should shoot. No, I can't agree with such realism. 

[Raeven]

@GODSPEED this guy ^ has been hounding the steam forums for weeks about lack of CTH but refuses to play JA2 because graphics.

Safe to say he does not understand why JA2 works just fine without it and isn't willing to find out for himself. Best to just ignore.

[sandman25dcsss]

4 minutes ago, Raeven said:

@GODSPEED this guy ^ has been hounding the steam forums for weeks about lack of CTH but refuses to play JA2 because graphics.

Safe to say he does not understand why JA2 works just fine without it and isn't willing to find out for himself. Best to just ignore.

Don't worry, I am not aggressive 🙂

[GODSPEED]

28 minutes ago, Raeven said:

@GODSPEED this guy ^ has been hounding the steam forums for weeks about lack of CTH but refuses to play JA2 because graphics.

Safe to say he does not understand why JA2 works just fine without it and isn't willing to find out for himself. Best to just ignore.

Ah. Darn!! Point taken!

[Dr.Kuhn]

On 5/15/2023 at 10:27 AM, Xeth Nyrrow said:

I appreciate the acknowledgement here. Since you made it a point to specifically comment on moderation, I will jump in here to say that I think you guys really need to consider warning then banning people for being disruptive to the forums in general. This isn't a place of free speech, but a game forum that is trying to sell a product. I'm not saying to stifle criticism about the game just bad behavior of some individuals regardless of their opinions.

Letting this continue just makes it look like your company supports toxic behavior. The whole flag thread going on for as long as it did is another example of waiting too long to do what's best for the companies' interests and appearance. I'm looking forward to further discussing the game in a less toxic environment, thank you.

Literally nobody thinks that any company's forums are an accurately reflection of a company's values and beliefs. You ever work customer service? I'm assuming "no" because you'd probably not come to these awkward and extreme conclusions that you have.

The forums are NOT for selling the game, they're for discussing it. You seriously think people that have never played a Jagged alliance title are coming on here instead of...say...steam? Like...really?

[sandman25dcsss]

2 minutes ago, Dr.Kuhn said:

The forums are NOT for selling the game, they're for discussing it. You seriously think people that have never played a Jagged alliance title are coming on here instead of...say...steam? Like...really?

Really true. It looks like I am the only member who haven't played JA and I registered here just to explain how Lunokhod got banned from Steam forum before realizing the thread here was closed.

[Xeth Nyrrow]

2 minutes ago, Dr.Kuhn said:

Literally nobody thinks that any company's forums are an accurately reflection of a company's values and beliefs. You ever work customer service? I'm assuming "no" because you'd probably not come to these awkward and extreme conclusions that you have.

The forums are NOT for selling the game, they're for discussing it. You seriously think people that have never played a Jagged alliance title are coming on here instead of...say...steam? Like...really?

*Looks at date of quoted post..*

2 months ago, wow. You just couldn't wait to give me grief after they followed my suggestion about banning toxic posters. But yet here you are again on another alt. Necro-ing my post is just more confirmation, sad.