Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...

What are the ABSOLUTE MINIMUM FEATURES you would require (or hate) for JA3 to be what it's name implies?


GODSPEED
 Share

Recommended Posts

Okay.. I've noticed some of us have had many ideas, reserves, worries, hopes and dreams for Jagged Alliance 3.. I would like if this topic could become a more "concise" location to keep track of what are each and everyones idea of what is absolutely NECESSARY for them to consider Jagged Alliance 3 a game they could imagine being a success (in terms of holding the Jagged Alliance name, not talking financial success here).


For myself, the bare minimum would have to start with Mercs individual personalities.

Without this, the game loses one of its core unique features and simply turns into another turn-based tactical game.


Another feature I deem an absolute NECESSITY is the same CLASS-LESS system as in Jagged Alliance 2.

I would really HATE to see locked classes with perks and levelling as the modern xcom (and derivatives) have turned into.


A Strategic Layer ("World" Map) AND a Tactical (Combat) Layer are also a must!


While I also prefer a turn-based system, I've played many real-time with pause and also systems like 7,62 High Calibre and Back in Action.. I'm okay with those systems. As long as you can pause to study your situation.
 

I understand having real gun names in modern games often require many licensing agreements, which can be costly. That said, I would rather a wider variety of weapons with an accurate look, ammunition and realistic behaviour versus fewer guns but real name.



I have many wants, but I'm open to new ideas.. or I'm trying to be anyways.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

No real time stuff for me. Might have been how it worked in other titles and games, but the classic JA1/JA2 experience is what I need. It was such a perfect formula.

I'd also like to see destructible environments ala Silent Storm.

I'm not too bothered by weapon names, just as long as there's plenty of variety. 

I also super agree with the lack of classes. That would really drag the game down a few notches. 

I'm liking what I see so far and the cynicism I normally have with new releases just isn't there. For the first time in a long time, I'm excited for a new entry in a favourite series. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/8/2021 at 9:19 AM, Jack_Aufenhand said:

It was such a perfect formula.

...and that's what I think everytime I play Jagged Alliance 2.


Another detail I ALWAYS greatly enjoy in JA2 are the firefights that involve lots of enemies and lots of militia. It's really fun to sit back and take part in those huge battles.

I really hope that JA3 let's you join in battles with militia and that it won't just be an auto-resolve thing.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have given this a really long thought. What are my bare minimum requirements to accept this game as a "true" Jagged Alliance game. I have realised that I have very high demands, however; I have in the thought process scaled them down alot, since this game has to be relevant for less "1.13 hardcore" gamers aswell.


Unique personalities, Buddy/Foe system. True to the "lore" established from JA and JA2.

Non-linear strategic progression. Let me be able to choose what parts of the map to conquer and when and how.

Tactics matter more than mercs individual skill. Perhaps one of JA2 greatest feature. No matter how experienced and what skills your mercs had you could not put them in a bad situation and expect them to come out of it thanks to their level/hit points/armour/weapons.

Day/night and weather matters and allows their own pros and cons to combat encounters. 

Classless system. I am OK with skills like in JA2 were some mercs are specialists in certain areas and are more suitable to certain rolls than others. But not classes with a bunch of unique abilities and weapon/item restrictions like it is done in the later XCOM games.

Good weapon varieties, but quality and distinct difference/utility beats quantities in my humble opinion. I do not regard real life weapon names a must since licensing rights today are fairly strict. No level-ish system for weapons, (again) look at how JA2 did it. I would also like a distinct weapon progression (again) how it is done in JA2. Starting your team out with pistols, maybe a shotgun and/or and smg and clawing your way trough sectors and finding a precious rifle with a limited amount of ammo at the early stages. AND MAKE WEAPONS SOUND F'IN SCARY BECAUSE BEING SHOOT AT IS F'IN SCARY!

Turned based combat with action points akin to JA2 and do not go real time with pause. This already seems to be the way from the little gameplay we have been shown.

Destructible environments. Come on it is 2021! Silent Storm had destructible 3D environments back in 2003!

Modding/map tools. Look at how long lifetime games with modding tools tend to have! Maybe not a demand but a suggestion to prolong the games lifespan. For me it is more than enough if it is added after realese.
 

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Hendrix said:

What are my bare minimum requirements to accept this game as a "true" Jagged Alliance game. I have realised that I have very high demands, however; I have in the thought process scaled them down alot, since this game has to be relevant for less "1.13 hardcore" gamers aswell.

 

I think this is the most important aspect here. It has to qualify as 'true' Jagged Alliance for long-time fans, but also needs to be mainstream enough be enjoyable for as many non-hardcore players as possible. Developing games isn't as easy or cheap as it was some 20 years ago, so for the sake of commercial success some concessions are necessary.

While I noticed that some people here don't like the new XCOM, they probably don't know that it may be the only reason we get to see JA3 in the first place, as it did nothing short of a small miracle: XCOM revived a dead genre and was a commercial success. It's only natural that any investor would want JA3 to be as similar to XCOM as possible to minimize financial risks.

And that's what we can see from the few gameplay scenes we were shown: the cover system, skills, even the overwatch symbol are close to XCOM. That is also why we won't get 1.13 2.0.

That being said, I'm quite hopeful that we're on the right track this time around. I don't see any hints that there's a restrictive class system with odd weapon restrictions, I can see that there's weather, there's some inventory management, you have more than one squad, you have three stances (likely standing, crouching and lying), firing modes for weapons, body part aiming, an AP based combat system... all in all more than XCOM had to offer here.

Combat-wise I'd say that JA3 already is the 'true' JA experience. Although that isn't necessarily a good thing. The biggest challenge for Firaxis was the flow of combat. XCOM 1 was - not unlike JA2 - a slugfest of crawling, camping and waiting for interrupts/overwatch. That's the reason for those time limits in XCOM2. I can't deny that the flow of combat has indeed gotten better, despite hating the time limits. I think this is also the biggest challenge for JA3: to make combat faster/discourage boring overwatch-camping without imposing severe time limits or punishing players for not overwatching everything to death.

That leaves us with the strategic management and its complexity. Honestly, I wouldn't mind some abstractions that remove tedious steps like shuffling around magazines or grenades. Before Firaxis removed it I was unsure if it was the right thing to do. I mean, extensive ammo management was part of all my beloved turn-based tactical games from the 90s, so I believed it was important. But now I wouldn't want it back and I hope JA3 will do something similar (like auto-restock ammo/grenades and auto-repair weapons/equipment in certain zones or allow resupply for a small fee via drone etc.).

Logistics should be all about acquiring special equipment for upgrading your mercs and their items piece by piece. Getting ammo or even a car is trivial, getting rare equipment like armored military vehicles, a Ratnik body armor or tactical AR goggles isn't. And that's what I wish for: an inventory system that is more than just 2 utility slots, one weapon and that's it.

Gaining experience and earning new skills/better stats is also a big part of the 'true' JA experience. I'd be okay with a few restrictions; I know that not everybody can become an expert for explosives or sniper rifles. Just not a system that locks you out of basic options.

What also grew on me is the whole 'create your own merc' thing. It was great to have at least one custom merc and I hope it is still in.

Side-quests are a must. They don't have to be huge or elaborate, but who doesn't remember Kingpin and his money?

The strategic management shouldn't be too shallow. While I think that building and upgrading a base would be nice, I don't think it is necessary. But upgrading mines, rebuilding barracks for militia or repairing an old harbor or a radar installation to unlock more options/features should be the bare minimum.

Overall I remain hopeful. The few things we were shown - including the choice of developer - are convincing. For now at least.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Hendrix said:

I have given this a really long thought.

...and Sir-Tech couldn't come up with a better description than that!

 

You pretty much wrote down most of what I think of JA2 and what I want for JA3.

 

 

...when you're fighting around with SMGs and basic rifles and you got a black shirt taking bursts with a Kalashnikov...

 

Oh Jagged Alliance! What have you done to me!!?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

 

 

I agree with just about all the features listed by Hendrix earlier, but there are two main features I would single out as being the absolute minimum required by me to make JA3 worthy of the name:

 

1. Merc and NPC Characterisation

OK, the characters in JA2 were stereotypes but they were well crafted stereotypes. Their bits of dialogue were were well written to reflect their personalities. Who could forget Fox saying “That was worth bending over for,” as she picked up some useful piece of loot, or Len telling you that he couldn’t extend his contract because he was going off on an RV trip with his wife? Allied to the writing was the absolutely excellent voice acting. The result was a very immersive game peopled by characters you could really relate to and it was something that made JA2 so special. The humor in JA2 was built into the characters and I’m just a bit concerned that JA3 ends up trying to be too jokey. I notice in the announcement trailer that when Ivan shoots the marauder, the guys says: “Uh - that hurt”, like that’s the sort of thing someone would say when they’ve just had a bullet put through them. Please devs, try to keep it real. If you’re going down that route with JA3 you may as well bring in dragons and zombies.

 

2. Strategic Freedom

Side quests are fine and well worth having in the game, as long as they remain optional. The great thing about JA2 was that you were given the single overall objective of overthrowing Dedrianna and it was up to you how you went about it. Playing the game was like writing a new story every time you played it. Too many games today are quest straightjacketed: you gotta do this to gain that before you can do that other thing. JA3 must allow you the ability to develop your own strategy and your own route to achieving the final goal.

 

I can understand the concerns some people have about JA3 become a bit of an XCOM clone and I hope the designers don’t take the easy route of just lifting stuff from XCOM. The original Jagged Alliance games were innovative, and it would be great to see some surprising new features that none of us are expecting. I can’t suggest what they should be because then they wouldn’t be a surprise!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Absolute minimum features? To be honest, I'd be overjoyed with a remake of JA2, just with better graphics, in a new setting.

That said, top of the list is 'turn-based'. I can't even bring myself to Google the names of the real-time pause efforts of recent past - it just has to be turned based combat, end of story.

Moving down the wishlist, yeah, I think the merc personalities should be a thing. Humour, and off-beat humour at that, should definitely stay. Building on the rivalry thing, in JA2, there were one or two rivalries you had to watch out for, otherwise one of them quit. This mechanism could stay, but be expanded upon - quitting doesn't have to be the final result. Other nerfs could be implemented to reflect inter-merc disagreements.

Stealth mechanics in JA2 were ok, but could really be improved upon. Somehow related to this, I want to say something about martial arts - kind of implemented in JA2, but you could never use it - it was just weak. Some kind of character build with stealth/martial arts would be superb. There would need, though, to be a mechanism to prevent both stealth and martial arts being spammed. Or maybe not - I dunno.

Next up, neither JA or JA2 really got the roster right, great as some of the characters were. In both games, a large proprotion of the availble mercs were useless at any point of the game, and nobody ever hired them, unless they really wanted a challenge. Put it this way - if you're hiring Pops McGillicutty because that's all you could afford, you might as well start a new game. The lower third of the entire roster in JA was junk, and much of the mid tier. I'm looking at you, Tex R. Colburn, Jimmy Upton, and Wink E. Dickerson - just no use, at all. In JA2, you at least had the likes of Bull, the cheapest Merc in the opening game, but at least he could open stuff for you - and he often survived to just do that, right to the end. Realistically balancing the economy with merc abilities should be key, with far less 'filler' mercs. Opening the game with Ice, Ivan, Fidel, and user-defined merc gets boring.

Moving on - maybe a bit of randomisation of stats among the well known characters. One of the things that grew tiring, as replayable as JA2 was, was that everyone was exactly the same, every time. It would be interesting if stats were changed up each game, meaning that when you're looking at the AIM roster at the start, you really do have to look and evaluate each time. Reviewing each character's value (both practically and financially) would breathe new life into things.

Stand/crouch/prone - say no more.

Weapon customisation - yes.

Strategy layer/tactical layer - yes.

Free roam on the strategy layer, as opposition permits - yes.

Resource procurement from captured sectors - yes.

Fragments of mystery notes the player needs to figure out within a time limit (like JA) - hell yes.

Voice-over descripton of objects with inappropriate amounts of reverb; 'A sausage - in good condition!'

There's much, much more I could list as things I'd like as a minimum, but much of the above is really a wish list. If we ever even see this game, I'll be amazed.

 

Edited by ZeeraCamay
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ooh, PS - just thought: this woul;d never make it as an official JA3, but sometime, somewhere, it would be great to have a merc management version of JA, a al Battle Brothers/BattleTech/Wartales etc. Instead of being the contractor hiring the mercs, you're the manager of AIM. I think that'd make a SUPERB game.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, ZeeraCamay said:

I want to say something about martial arts - kind of implemented in JA2, but you could never use it - it was just weak. Some kind of character build with stealth/martial arts would be superb. There would need, though, to be a mechanism to prevent both stealth and martial arts being spammed. Or maybe not - I dunno.

All of your notes are pretty inline with mines, and what I think are the basics of most fans.

 

Thank you for all the detail.

 

The point about stealth and martial arts also ties in with wanting to build a "melee" character.

 

The problems with the maps in JA2 os the lack of urban environments.

 

The maps are great for sniping and long-range engagements, espcially mid to late-game.

 

This ties into Submachine guns use as well.

 

 

I would like to see some dense village/city maps with lots of cover and tight areas that would really make a quick, nimble and agile merc shine.

 

Anyways, great points, ams welcome to the 'club'!

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

 As I always said, you should focus more on JA 1 and JA 2. That you can train militias, that hostile associations attack your sectors, etc. Voice chat with the soldiers is also part of this when you hire them or talk to them. You should also be able to modify weapons yourself, and be able to tinker items.Also that you can create your own merc like in JA 2 by your self. Would also be cool if weather influences would play a role snow / sun / rain / fog etc. And if they introduce new features that were not available in part 2. ^^ Of course it should also have a large map with cities / mines / military bases and other things. It would be great if the Map is greater then in JA 2. large pool of mercenaries to choose from, and / or another organization besides A.I.M. would also be nice ^^, minimum 60 Characters or more like in JA 1 & 2. The mercs MUST have personalitie and their ticks and character, Friendship/Hostility and so more. Because this is not X-Com where Soldiers are just nameless characters.

And not the system of militia of JA Back in Action, you put them only a weapon in the hands and done. Also in JA BiA there was completly missing intermediate sequences, like in JA 2 between Deidranna & Elliot or what was his name ? ^^ Also good new feature would be if you can use vehicles Truck/Helicopter like in JA 2 for transporting your troops. 

Also interrupt system must be intergrated like in the real predecessors. Nice would be if several types of enemies exist like Sniper/Medic/Storm Troopers and more, not only normal and elite enemy soldiers.

Your mercs should also have moral, because if they have bad moral they will leave you. Also interacting whit NPC characters what you can trade/hire or giving side quests to you.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/21/2021 at 9:30 PM, Morcar said:

 As I always said, you should focus more on JA 1 and JA 2. That you can train militias, that hostile associations attack your sectors, etc. Voice chat with the soldiers is also part of this when you hire them or talk to them. You should also be able to modify weapons yourself, and be able to tinker items.Also that you can create your own merc like in JA 2 by your self. Would also be cool if weather influences would play a role snow / sun / rain / fog etc. And if they introduce new features that were not available in part 2. ^^ Of course it should also have a large map with cities / mines / military bases and other things. It would be great if the Map is greater then in JA 2. large pool of mercenaries to choose from, and / or another organization besides A.I.M. would also be nice ^^, minimum 60 Characters or more like in JA 1 & 2. The mercs MUST have personalitie and their ticks and character, Friendship/Hostility and so more. Because this is not X-Com where Soldiers are just nameless characters.

And not the system of militia of JA Back in Action, you put them only a weapon in the hands and done. Also in JA BiA there was completly missing intermediate sequences, like in JA 2 between Deidranna & Elliot or what was his name ? ^^ Also good new feature would be if you can use vehicles Truck/Helicopter like in JA 2 for transporting your troops. 

Also interrupt system must be intergrated like in the real predecessors. Nice would be if several types of enemies exist like Sniper/Medic/Storm Troopers and more, not only normal and elite enemy soldiers.

Your mercs should also have moral, because if they have bad moral they will leave you. Also interacting whit NPC characters what you can trade/hire or giving side quests to you.

Also i dont know if the half and full-cover mechanics are the right thing for JA 3. Because the predecessors was and are still awesome because they dont need that. Just search a cover in the environment wall/tree/rock or something else and hide behind it^^. same thing for perenctual hit chance is not necessary in JA, like X-Com where u have 99% to hit and then miss it o_0.

Also the loot and scavenging/item managment system like in JA 2 should be integrate, and even a shop like Bobby Rays Gun Shop or something else...

But we will just see in the future, because at the moment we have much to less infos about Jagged Alliance 3. Me personally i have great hope for it. despite of disaster games after JA 2, only Back in Action is like a OK game but even not a "good Game" :-(.

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

1.13 levels of micromanagement,or URBAN COMBAT,your choice

JA2 real time/turn based remaining the same with X-COMs cover system/sprint,along with it's blue-yellow move,then copy pasta me some JA2 Laptop,the whole friggin thing besides possibly making myself,while having a totally unhinged lunatic on the squad was fun,especially as myself,my death bringing about the end of the game didn't jive with me

I enjoyed the late nights of making sure every weapon was taken care of,every round of ammo was replaced and my mercs were ready to go i could literally go to bed after just prepping for a mission,without even a fight that night,having them ready after all that work made it worthwhile,i do not want the crappy xcom inventory,that is absolutely insufficient and about fun enough for 1 playthrough

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/27/2022 at 6:50 AM, RedFox said:

1.13 levels of micromanagement,or URBAN COMBAT,your choice

JA2 real time/turn based remaining the same with X-COMs cover system/sprint,along with it's blue-yellow move,then copy pasta me some JA2 Laptop,the whole friggin thing besides possibly making myself,while having a totally unhinged lunatic on the squad was fun,especially as myself,my death bringing about the end of the game didn't jive with me

I enjoyed the late nights of making sure every weapon was taken care of,every round of ammo was replaced and my mercs were ready to go i could literally go to bed after just prepping for a mission,without even a fight that night,having them ready after all that work made it worthwhile,i do not want the crappy xcom inventory,that is absolutely insufficient and about fun enough for 1 playthrough

 

21 minutes ago, Sabotage said:

Must have the same downtime choices to heal, fix equipment, train, etc.



The macro/micro-management aspects of JA2 are integral to its core! These are often the details that make or break a turn-based strategy game. These are aspects that give the game so much depth, but also, OPTIONS. Those who prefer to just do basic stuff.. you can get by. For those who like every little detail down to the percentage wear of that rifle you've been lugging around for a few battles, we have that option.

Cut out that management? sure, maybe those who don't like it will be happy, but you do lose all the players who WANT it.

JA2 has many elements of a wargame at a much smaller scale, yet keeps most of the minutiae that armchair generals appreciate.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I believe that what we are all saying is simply put "choices".

The more choices we have, the better the game.

Different approaches for the same situation, a variety of side quests to solve, numerous weapons to choose, various mercs to hire.

Even destructible terrain falls easily in "choices" as it gives you a different option in solving a problem. 

 

Apart from that, though, I kind of lean on the TB tactical fights vs the Real-time. I have reached 50 waiting for a proper JA3 and my reflexes on stopping the game or even realizing what's happening on the screen, especially when I am trying to flank using more than one team, are not what they used to be.

Thanx 

 

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/7/2022 at 8:58 AM, sofos said:

I believe that what we are all saying is simply put "choices".

Agreed.

I belive this game will require a vast amount of gameplay options and difficulty settings, and the ability to mod this game so people can turn it into whatever they like (the Pathfinder games from Owlcat comes to mind) for the game to become financially successful and appealing to a relatively large audience.

Options and choices such as (but not limited to) strategic difficulty. Tactical difficulty. Financial difficulty. The Tons of Guns option. Perhaps even such things as Merc relation difficulty.

Simply to make the game as accessible as possible even for those that normally would not be interested in a game as complicated as JA2 (and I do not even count the 1.13 mod). While still being able to capture and challenge those who wants a game like the original.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

What i realy want in this Game, is the jagged alliance Feeling. Now, what is that?

I think it's a Mix of this 80s Action Movie Humor and some Kind of dark Touch in the Art Design. As someone said, the Lore of JA1 and JA2 ist improtent. A clever balanced tactical and strategical Challenge is a must.

I think if the developers capture that, it doesen't matter if there are any specific features missing.

After all the disappointmants in the past, that Jagged Alliance Feeling have to set in. 

What i see from the Trailer, i have to said that it needs to bei darker and filled with a little more depth ( animated merc Avatars for example).

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

I would be incredible happy to see exact clone of JA2 with mod-ability as a base. With some interface changes only.

Then on that base you can release additional huge campaign and call it JA4.

But for me bare minimum is basically JA2 functionality, size and all its features.

Perfect example is Diablo 2 Resurrected. If they removed any of its base features it wouldn't be a success.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...