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Guns ´n´ stuff


Hendrix
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Hey Godspeed!  I thought it would be for best to continue our gun discussion here. Hope you don't mind.

Regarding your questions about Swedish gun laws and what might be similar to Canada.
A very very very simplified explanation to the laws are: If you have a NEED (NOT WANT) and can motivate the possession of a specific gun, you can get a permit to own it. Applications are sent to the Police who process the application and decide if you have a legitimate reason to own the specific gun, or not.

In reality that generally boils down to 2 specific kinds of permits. Hunting and competition.
For hunting you first have to pass a hunting exam. Wich includes a theoretical exam invovling species, safety, etics etc. Also there are practical tests invovling gun safety/handeling and shooting/accuracy. 
After that you can obtain permits for most types of "ordinary" hunting rifles. The weapon must NOT be of "military design". So basically no ARs or AKs etc.
Semi automatic hunting rifles are restricted to a round capacity of 3 or 5 depending on what specific animal you are hunting at the occasion.
No magazine restrictions apply for ordinary bolt action rifles.
Semi auto and pump action shotguns are restricted to 1+2 capacity.
No magazine restrictions apply for target practise at a range however.
So in my case, I can hunt with my Ruger PCC as long as I use a 5 round mag. At the range however I occasionally use both 12 and 21 round mags for practise.

For competition permits you first have to be a member of a target shooting club, pass a safety course and practise and compete at a regular interval with the clubs weapons for something like a year before you can apply for a permit and expect it to pass. You also have to reapply the permit for each specific competition gun at a 5 year interval.
Depending on what sort of competitions you partake in, you can more or less own anything, AKs, ARs, G3s, pistols, revolvers.
Fully automatic guns however are EXTREMELY rare to be owned by "civilians".
You are NOT allowed to hunt with guns you own specifically for competition. You are however allowed to compete with guns you own with a hunting permit.
Again I have to be clear that this is very simplified explanation, there are alot of exceptions and other restrictions aswell.


As I mentioned I only own 5 rifles with hunting permit.
So what guns do I own?
Anchütz 1416 .22lr, with a black rubberised stock. Fitted with a Hawke 3-9 optic. Used mostly for practice but serves well as a pest control rifle.

Ruger PCC 9x19, with a Vortex 2 MOA red dot. I use mine for plinking and as a ranch rifle.

An old Belgian Star 12 gauge side by side shotgun, inherited from my grandfather. I have used it a few times hunting hare.

Tikka LSA55 .308W inherited from my father. I swapped the original stock to a KKC which made a tremendous different in recoil and increased accuracy aswell.
I fitted it with a Swarovski Z6 1,7-10x42 optic.
I use it mostly for hunting moose and red deer.

And last but not least a Sauer 200 STR in 6.5x55 Swede, fitted with a Vortex 6-24x50 optic. An awesome target rifle. Planing to change the stock to a GRS Bifrost and change the barrel from a 740mm to a 670mm and cut it down to 600mm to make the rifle more feasible for hunting.

I also have plans to acquire a semi auto shotgun, right now I am looking at the Beretta A300, A400 and 1301 models.

Would love to get into competition shooting, but currently I just do not have the spare time.

Most fun gun I have ever shot was definitely the KSP58 (FN MAG). Carried one alot during my time as a conscript in the Swedish Army. Also shot the AK5 (FN FNC) and Glock 17 fairly extensively. The AT4 was pretty cool too.

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16 minutes ago, Hendrix said:

I thought it would be for best to continue our gun discussion here. Hope you don't mind.

Respecting the forums Topic is a good thing; good idea!


Laws in Sweden are somewhat strict I would say. If it can help ppl be sensible and if it really helps lower crime, then I guess it's a fair trade. It's just unfortunate that it seems to have the bigger impact on our "type" of gun user; I enjoy guns for the mechanical aspect, the "fireworks" and simply fun plinking.

Our Laws here in Canada aren't exactly the same... but they are a little strict as well. I'll also try to be brief.

You have to pass the Canadian Firearms Safety Course (CFSC) for the class of permit you want.
If you pass, you can then apply for a Possession and Acquisition Licence (PAL)

We have 3 classes of permits;
- Non-Restricted
- Restricted
- Prohibited


NON-RESTRICTED includes most rifles and shotguns. These usually have more of the hunting/sporting look, although there are quite a few exceptions.
Course is a 1 day Handling and Safety Course

RESTRICTED includes Handguns and other guns with a barrel shorter than 47cm or 66cm for rifles that could be folded (or reduced to that size and still functional).
Course is a 1 day Handling and Safety Course


PROHIBITED is pretty much any automatic or handguns with extremely short barrels, like a snub-nose, a 32 calibre round (why .32 ? no one knows!) and other sawed-off weapons, like a sawed-off shotgun that would have a stock but very short barrel.
I'm not certain what the requirements are to own this class, but it is reserved to military, museum collectors and very specific occasion.. you do not really have your "commoner" with this permit (unless you're a business owner who handles these types of firearms).


==========
These "restrictions" are VERY odd in Canada, because they often take firearms and reclassify them over time.. usually towards a more restrictive nature. It is often done by the "look" of the firearm. If someone in the government believes a certain rifles looks too militaristic, it will fall into the Restricted or even Prohibited classes.

As a Non-Restricted permit owner, I can own an SKS, KAR98, Mini-14/30 and pretty much many surplus bolt-action/semi-auto military rifle, but I could not own an M14 unless I gave in my application for Restricted firearms. Then you have rifles like ANY of the variants, clones, copies of the SVD, Tiger.. Russian, Chinese... those are Prohibited for some VERY odd reason, why? It makes no sense, because the 7.62x54r is a very cool round that you can buy in quantity from surplus and all.. but you can have a Mosin-Nagant with it.

There is also an extremely odd regulation on magazine size. For any centerfire rifle, you cannot  have a magazine/clip that can hold more than 5 rounds. My SKS has the internal magazine welded with a stopper that doesn't let it take more than 5 rounds (even if you noticed the loading clips have 10 (that's just for ease of inserting the rounds). So no hunting rifle, semi-auto, bolt or otherwise can accept more than 5 rounds.

Now the strange part is that doesn't apply to rimfire (.22 and its derivatives).. I can have a Ruger 10/22 with a 100round drum mag, no problem. It also doesn't apply the say way to pistol caliber rounds. So let's say the Beretta CX4 Storm is a Non-Restricted firearm, but I can use the 10 Round magazines with it, even though it is a centerfire rifle. As long as it isn't a pistol, I can use the mag capacity of the pistol in a rifle with the Non-Restricted permit.

Oh, and this capacity restriction, doesn't apply to Shotguns. You can load whatever you want in a Shotgun.


Now, that is the "easy" Non-Restricted PAL. The Restricted becomes complicated in the sense that there are very heavy regulations. One you have passed your course, you must enroll into a club to be able to buy and shoot handguns (and other Restricted firearms). You have to be part of that club for however long you want to maintain your permit.

When you want to go shoot your Restricted firearm, you have to register that day with the RCMP to have it approved. So as I am driving to the Range (indoor/outdoor), I would not be allowed to stop anywhere in between my home and the range. No drive-thru restaurant, no banking, no picking up groceries. Then, you can also be randomly selected to be visited by an RCMP agent who will inspect how you have your firearms secured at home, they must be locked behind two doors.. so your front door and another locked door (you cannot simply put a lock on your wardrobe, it has to be a secure thing, like a gun cabinet).

In any case, the courses are the easy part. A weekend and you can easily have both the Non-Restricted and Restricted courses passed. It's simply a matter of how to securely handle firearms... and for ppl like us (you seem like a sensible person), gun handling and security is often almost "natural".
Even when I used to play airsoft, before ever having a firearm permit, I would never put a finger on a trigger.. always pointed the muzzle in a safe direction.. the basics really. They also teach you different types of firearm mechanical functions, parts and calibers....

....if you've played Jagged Alliance 2 and you've become anything like us, you almost know more than the teacher 😁 (and I am saying that as a joke.. many of the teachers have taught Law-Enforcment personel).


In any case, I live in the city, so unfortunately with the lockdows we've had I simply haven't been shooting as much in the last couple years. I haven't even been since the re-opening of everything really.

Here in my city of Montreal, firearms aren't well regarded by the general population.. so you take great care not to scare anyone, or else the problems with the law after would be a nightmare.



Anyways, hope that wasn't too boring.. but somehow I doubt talking gun laws is boring to a gun nut..
ANY reason to talk guns is a good reason!

I'll take a look at those models you mentionned... maybe you can post some pics.. this is the RIGHT topic after all!

I also own a pump 12-gauge..


 

canuck commander.jpg

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You have to belong to a club here in NZ to own or possess a pistol, and if they mandate the vaccine for rifle clubs then we might have to hand those in, which sucks.

 

Your Canadian laws look similar to ours.

Edited by Acid
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  • 2 weeks later...

I am sorry for the late reply. I catched the flu last week and spent it recuperating (

I swear I only played a little bit of 1.13). Then I had to spend most time to catch up with work. Sadly, no one does that for me if I am absent. 😂

 

On 10/16/2021 at 5:44 PM, GODSPEED said:

Anyways, hope that wasn't too boring.. but somehow I doubt talking gun laws is boring to a gun nut..
ANY reason to talk guns is a good reason!

Not boring at all, I find it interesting how other countries has chosen to regulate guns for the civilian population. Overall, I do believe that guns needs to be registered and regulated. However; often I find the laws in place unnecessarily complicated and to different degrees inefficient. 

 

On 10/16/2021 at 5:44 PM, GODSPEED said:

I also own a pump 12-gauge..

Nice! What model is that? I could definitely NOT get that on a hunting permit over here! 😂

 

On 10/16/2021 at 5:44 PM, GODSPEED said:

I'll take a look at those models you mentionned... maybe you can post some pics.. this is the RIGHT topic after all!

Sure thing!

From the top the Sauer 200 STR, at the bottom the Tikka LSA55. For the sake of size the inner length of the gun cache is 130cm.

1190677925_SauerTikka.thumb.jpg.2a28dc86d81d2fd363d7e3ed687b345a.jpg

 

Then we have the Anchütz 1416, Star 12g and again for sake of size comparison the Ruger PCC.

1047815373_AnchtzStarRuger.thumb.jpg.337d715c87d0bea23895fd3207b6bc05.jpg

 

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You had the flu, good thing you didn't take the test, otherwise it might've come back Covid +, don't trust it, even the creator said it isn't good for isolating viruses.. if they even exist, but I'm not getting into that.

Nice guns though. 🙂 

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9 hours ago, Hendrix said:

Sadly, no one does that for me if I am absent. 😂

Sounds like my job alright..

 

9 hours ago, Hendrix said:

Not boring at all, I find it interesting how other countries has chosen to regulate guns for the civilian population. Overall, I do believe that guns needs to be registered and regulated. However; often I find the laws in place unnecessarily complicated and to different degrees inefficient. 

Yes. I appreciate the safety of keeping a gun away from a person who goes haywire when something happens. I also think a basic course is necessary just to teach basic safety measures!

The amount of times I've seen paintball/airsoft players wall in the waiting room/hanging out an talking with a loaded 'gun', finger on the trigger.. It's scary!

 

9 hours ago, Hendrix said:

Nice! What model is that? I could definitely NOT get that on a hunting permit over here! 😂

Canuck Commander 14" 12gauge 3" can hold 4+1. It's a decent budget shotty, Canadian market stuff made Turkey (not sure why, but we've got plenty of Turkish made firearms, as well as chinese Norinco).

I like it for "plinking" as I wouldn't hunt with such a short barrel.

 

9 hours ago, Hendrix said:

Sure thing!

From the top the Sauer 200 STR, at the bottom the Tikka LSA55. For the sake of size the inner length of the gun cache is 130cm.

1190677925_SauerTikka.thumb.jpg.2a28dc86d81d2fd363d7e3ed687b345a.jpg

 

Then we have the Anchütz 1416, Star 12g and again for sake of size comparison the Ruger PCC.

1047815373_AnchtzStarRuger.thumb.jpg.337d715c87d0bea23895fd3207b6bc05.jpg

 

Very nice models!

I REALLY like the Tikka! It has that tactical modern sniper rifle look, but with wood. I really dig wood on rifles. Also really like those rifles that keep iron sights.

 

A model I'm looking into for shooting paper;

Browning Buck Mark Sporter (22lr).

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 10/28/2021 at 7:46 PM, GODSPEED said:

I REALLY like the Tikka! It has that tactical modern sniper rifle look, but with wood. I really dig wood on rifles. Also really like those rifles that keep iron sights.

Thanks! I really like it to, has a great balance and really smooth shooting for a .308. The rear iron sight was removed due to the optic being mounted low. The front sight is simply stuck and I am unable to remove the screw. 😂

 

On 10/28/2021 at 7:46 PM, GODSPEED said:

Browning Buck Mark Sporter (22lr).

That looks like a nice and fun "plinkster"!

May I ask your reasons to look into that instead of a Ruger 1022 (since they are so popular when it comes to .22)?

Personally, if I would buy a .22 today I would buy a KIDD 1022.

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1 hour ago, Hendrix said:

May I ask your reasons to look into that instead of a Ruger 1022 (since they are so popular when it comes to .22)?

Personally, if I would buy a .22 today I would buy a KIDD 1022.

Purely out of looks and style!

 

The Buck Mark Sporter is litteraly a Buck Mark Pistol in carbine form. Pistols being in the really complicated RESTRICTED category, this carbine gives that shoulder stock pistol feel without the hassle.

The betetta CX4 Storm is also an option, but one I always worry they will switch to the RESTRICTED category.

 

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On 10/16/2021 at 10:15 AM, Hendrix said:

Ruger PCC 9x19, with a Vortex 2 MOA red dot. I use mine for plinking and as a ranch rifle.

Last week, I was looking around some online Canadian gun stores and I had just remembered why the Ruger PC (PCC in your area?) wasn't that familiar!

 

I thought I was losing my armchair general gun knowledge 😰

 

Finally, no! I am still in the game! 😅

 

And when I "shop" I filter out  RESTRICTED firearms from results. The Ruger PC is RESTRICTED in Canada. Pistol level license.

 

Why? Don't ask, I don't understand!

 

Hear this:

We can buy the Beretta CX4 Storm, which was used in a college school shooting in my city a little over dozen years ago, but the Ruger PC which doesn't even look nearly as aggressive, we cannot buy!

 

😶

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1 hour ago, GODSPEED said:

Ruger PC (PCC in your area?)

Ruger PC Carbine to be specific, so PCC for "short".

 

1 hour ago, GODSPEED said:

I thought I was losing my armchair general gun knowledge 😰

DREADFUL THOUGHT! 😂

 

1 hour ago, GODSPEED said:

Beretta CX4 Storm = OK, Ruger PC Carbine = NOT OK

That pretty up sums up my annoyance with firearms regulations, they do not really make sense what is legal and not.

Over here for example, hunting permits for Tikka T3x TAC A1 and Ruger Precision Rifle are no longer approved. Why? Well it comes down to looks. Because they have pistol grips and foldable stock therefore more dangerous than anything else! Despite them being bolt action rifles. However, getting a hunting permit for a Browning BAR Match (not to be confused with the WW1 gun) is no problem. You are even able to buy 20 round magazines for it. But a hunting permit for a M1 Garand or a M1A Springfield would not be approved.  

 

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1 hour ago, Hendrix said:

Over here for example, hunting permits for Tikka T3x TAC A1 and Ruger Precision Rifle are no longer approved.

So, how would it affect you if for example you had a rifle that became no longer approved?


Here, you would have a certain amount of time to get rid of it, I believe you could sell it to someone who owns the proper license (but do not take my word on that one), or else you have to hand it over to the proper authorities who will destroy it... FREE OF CHARGE! 🙄 Lucky you.



🤣 We have some rifles we cannot own, like Springfield M1A.. but we can buy the Norinco clone of it... ?? 😂

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14 hours ago, GODSPEED said:

So, how would it affect you if for example you had a rifle that became no longer approved?

A fair assumption is that it would not affect a permit already approved of, usually the authorities do not apply rules/laws that takes affect back in time. So if you already have a permit for it, you are likely OK. However it would be more or less impossible to sell the gun to someone else since no one can get a permit for it. So your only option then is to hand the weapon to the Police for destruction when you no longer want it (of course free of charge).

 

14 hours ago, GODSPEED said:

We have some rifles we cannot own, like Springfield M1A.. but we can buy the Norinco clone of it... ??

Amazing logic! 😂 

We have a similar situation here.

As I said the Tikka T3x TAC A1 are no longer approved of for hunting because of the pistol grip and foldable stock. OK. I can however buy a Tikka T3x CTR, which is the same gun without the "chassi stock",   aaaand mount the CTR into an aftermarket chassi stock with foldable stock and pistol grip. And it is completely fine because it is a bolt action rifle. Because the only semi-auto hunting rifles are affected by the rule of no pistol grip and foldable stock. 😂

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  • 2 weeks later...

@GODSPEED I decided to comment you in this topic about the HK VP70M.

It is probably a no brainer but, if you somehow have missed it. "Gun Jesus" over at the Forgotten Weapons channel on YouTube has some great videos on the weapon. And alot more weapons at that!

I also enjoy their sister channel InRange TV.

Ian and Karl are in my opinion very likable and has a matter-of-factly approach to things. And they are able to take things in a not so serious manner sometimes and just have fun.

Furthermore I sometimes watch Paul Harrell, I find his take on things refreshing to the often very elitist thinkings of many gun channels.

Edited by Hendrix
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5 hours ago, Hendrix said:

@GODSPEED I decided to comment you in this topic about the HK VP70M.

"Gun Jesus" over at the Forgotten Weapons channel on YouTube has some great videos on the weapon. And alot more weapons at that!

I also enjoy their sister channel InRange TV.

Ian and Karl are in my opinion very likable and has a matter-of-factly approach to things. And they are able to take things in a not so serious manner sometimes and just have fun.

Furthermore I sometimes watch Paul Harrell, I find his take on things refreshing to the often very elitist thinkings of many gun channels.

Small world 🍻

 

The HK VP70M, 2200rpm, can't hit a single thing with that, still... I'd give my grandma (not really 🤭) to burst that!!

 

I also enjoy those channels for the "honest" content. Also for the more laidback vids: hickok45 and iraqveteran8888.

 

Oh man, I agree so much on the "elitist" type channels! I really like Paul Harrels stuff, no bullcrap and overdone videography.

 

Some just take their information and "counseling" to such a seriously high level of snobbery... Not for me! 🤭

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Yupp! Use what you got/can reasonably afford and learn how to use it well. No matter how expensive your equipment is, your own performance is always vital for success.

 

1 hour ago, GODSPEED said:

hickok45

The Uncle we all wish we had, right? 😂

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2 hours ago, Hendrix said:

The Uncle we all wish we had, right? 😂

The uncle I'd be visiting very often... 🤣

 

As much as I love and spend way too much time on Youtube, I've noticed that I don't like channels that I feel "brag" too much about their stuff/techniques/the right/wrong way to do things. I like those like hickok, forgotten weap, harrel, etc.. who are simply passionate about what they do and humble about it. Same goes for any other hobby I follow.

Being humble and down to earth is a nice quality.

 

Like you say, who cares WHAT or how much $$$ spent on things; what matters is if you really enjoy what you have, appreciate it and realize not everyone has the same situation/circumstances.

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On 10/16/2021 at 10:15 AM, Hendrix said:

I also have plans to acquire a semi auto shotgun, right now I am looking at the Beretta A300, A400 and 1301 models.

 

Lunch time, what else would I do but watch Youtube.. 🙄

 

I have a soft spot for old "wild west" style rifles.

 

On the top of my list of "guns to purchase.. someday, anyways" is a Marlin or Winchester lever action. Either in rifle caliber (.45-70 or .30-30) because my grandfather has often had stories hunting with such calibers, or pistol cartridge like .357, .44, etc.. because it's old school.

 

Your Sauer and Tikka reminded me of one of my favorite modernized retro rifle, Marlin 1895 SBL (same rifle as the one the main actor uses in Jurassic World 1)..

Something about the lever action, mox of wood and rails that just really grabs my attention. Grey wood, stainless steel..

 

So, anyways, lunchtime, I found this baby, and somehow, "racher" made me think of you, haha!

 

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1 hour ago, GODSPEED said:

Lunch time, what else would I do but watch Youtube..

Yeah, especially since the restrictions started (I have worked from home more or less ever since). 

 

1 hour ago, GODSPEED said:

Marlin 1895 SBL

Those are indeed very nice! I would not mind owning one myself. However due to another restriction we have here (you are limited to a maximum of 6 guns permited for hunting) I had to decide for my 6th gun to be one I really have a need for (semi auto shotgun for hunting birds in flight in thight forest areas). Sure I can use my old sbs, however due to the very long barrel and very tight spread, the gun is ill suited for that style of hunting. Might sound a bit of a contradiction to my earlier post about "use what you got and learn how to use it", in my defence I have practiced enough with the gun on clay pigeons to learn it's limits when it comes to short ranges and spread, and my own limitations shooting the gun well.

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16 hours ago, GODSPEED said:

I've noticed that I don't like channels that I feel "brag" too much about their stuff/techniques/the right/wrong way to do things. I like those like hickok, forgotten weap, harrel, etc.. who are simply passionate about what they do and humble about it. Same goes for any other hobby I follow.

Being humble and down to earth is a nice quality.

I could not agree more!

I enjoy watching people showing their skills/technique/approach to things and explaining what they do and why. What their thoughts about it is and just in general what works for them.

But as soon as it goes into that; You have to do this, you have to own that, I just stop listening. There is a lot of claims here among some hunters that if you do not own the very best gear you can not hunt.

The best hunter I personally know is an guy in his late 60. Does he own any fancy gear? NO. Does he own a Blaser R8? NO. A ghille suit? NO. But he moves like a f'in ghost trough the forest. He never takes anything for granted. He watches his surroundings and he is patient.

Very basic stuff really but he has honed his skills through more or less a whole life working in the forest and hunting.

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5 hours ago, Hendrix said:

The best hunter I personally know is an guy in his late 60. Does he own any fancy gear? NO. Does he own a Blaser R8? NO. A ghille suit? NO. But he moves like a f'in ghost trough the forest. He never takes anything for granted. He watches his surroundings and he is patient.

Very basic stuff really but he has honed his skills through more or less a whole life working in the forest and hunting.

When I took my firearms safety course, I had mentionned an attraction to the lever-action rifles, and without going into much detail, explained it was a model similar to one my grandpa used to hunt with when he was a young adult (an old Marlin .30-30).

 

The teacher almost stopped me in my words to tell me lever-action rifles aren't good enough for hunting necause they're innacurate, unreliable and full of bs.

 

Naturally, me the "newbie" to firearms, how can I reply to a veteran firearms handler?

 

Anyways, .30-30 is still made and easy to acquire for deer hunting; lever-action rifles are still used and carried by brush hunters because of the reliability and accuracy even with a shorter barrel.

 

I personaly don't hunt, nothing against it, I just have too much of a soft spot for animals and between a rifle and my camera, i'd carry my camera. I do have respect for serious hunters though..

I'll trust my grandpas sotires, because I know he's honest, but also he's done it his entire life almost.

 

Some ppl just want you to "KNOW" they KNOW things.

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2 hours ago, GODSPEED said:

Some ppl just want you to "KNOW" they KNOW things.

Yes, and they often get their points across through intimidation. Which just makes them a "wise-ass".

I mean it is one thing to recommend something to someone with valid points. But if you do not know the persons reasons for it, how can you say what is right ir wrong for them?

Myself I have on numerous occasions found out that what works for 95% others, does not really work for me.

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3 hours ago, Hendrix said:

Yes, and they often get their points across through intimidation. Which just makes them a "wise-ass".




Uh-oh... like these guys...

On 10/15/2021 at 9:29 AM, Hendrix said:

*Looking over the shoulder at my gun cabinet*

I wonder why... 😂

On 10/15/2021 at 10:33 AM, GODSPEED said:

They took on the wrong game to piss off its crowd!! 🤣

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