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  • DevDiary 6 - Combat, Part one

    Combat, Part One

    Hello there! I am Boian Spasov and it is my pleasure to welcome you to a DevDiary on a subject that I’ve been wanting to write about for a long time – combat! Yeah, it’s a big one - there is so much to talk about that a single article won’t be enough and you can expect a second combat DevDiary down the road.

    As stated in our first DevDiary “Game Vision” the combat is one of the pillars of Jagged Alliance 3. It is a deep, involved and realistic experience and is the single aspect of the game that we iterated on the most during development.

    Combat in Jagged Alliance 3 is turn-based with your entire team taking a turn, followed by the enemy team. During your turn you are free to activate your characters in any order and intermix action between them.

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    A typical character turn in many tactical games can be described as simply as “I move to this position and attack with this skill”. This level of abstraction is perfectly fine for these titles and we have seen how it can create deep and engaging gameplay, but for a simulative game like Jagged Alliance 3 we wanted more precise level of control over your character’s actions. How exactly do you move - will you hustle recklessly or carefully crawl to the target location? How exactly do you attack? Do you take your time to aim carefully? Will you attempt to cripple the target shooting a burst at their limbs or gamble for a killer headshot instead? This is achieved with several game mechanics working in concert, the most important of which are the Action Point system, the movement stances, the weapon firing modes and the body parts targeting system.

    Action Points

    All actions that a character takes during their team’s turn are limited by their available number of Action Points (AP). A simple action like crouching may cost only a single Action Point, while a more time-consuming action like a carefully aimed attack with a rocket launcher may consume most of the characters’ AP for the turn. Attack actions may be modified by spending additional AP to aim more carefully, increasing the chance to hit precisely with the net benefit from Aiming also depending on the weapon and the character stats.

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    An average rookie merc has around 10-12 AP per turn. This number is increased for veteran mercs and when conditions are favorable, like at high morale, but never too much. We intentionally kept the numbers relatively low to ease the mental calculations related to Action Points that players do each turn. However, even though the available number of AP is always displayed as an integer, it is internally stored with higher precision and certain very simple actions like moving at a short distance effectively cost only a fraction of an action point.

    Stances

    Characters are always in one of the three movement stances – standing, crouching or prone. Movement actions have different costs based on the chosen movement stance – crawling takes significantly more time than running the same distance but will realistically hide you from sight when you are behind an obstacle and is generally safer against firearm attacks and explosives. Conversely, if the enemy will attack you with a melee attack you will be at a disadvantage if you are crouching or prone.

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    When moving you can always lock your chosen movement stance, manage stances manually or let the game manage them automatically, switching to standing when this will optimize AP usage while moving but still ending the movement in your desired stance. This approach is not without risks – your characters are more exposed if they are running around standing between safer spots and if you expect to provoke an enemy attack it might be better to move crouched or prone.

    Firing Modes and Body Parts

    You have three important decisions to make when attacking – how many additional AP you are willing to spend aiming, what firing mode do you wish to use and a what body part to target. Firing modes are pretty straightforward - an automatic weapon, like an AK-47, is able to attack not only with single shots but also with burst an auto-fire attacks, shooting more bullets at the expense of accuracy and AP cost. Since bullets are simulated individually this also tends to create more chaos on the battlefield, but I will talk more about the bullet simulation further down.

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    With a double-barreled shotgun you can offload both barrels with the same attack, but you will have to reload afterwards. A dual-wielding character may alternate between firing with both weapons or just one of them by selecting the appropriate firing mode.

    Body part targeting allows you to try to hit a specific body part and inflict additional effects with the attack. Headshots are often difficult to pull of but deal massive damage, while arm and leg shots are often useful for crippling enemies that you will not be able to finish off during the current turn. Melee attacks may be targeted at the enemy neck, inflicting various crippling effects that depend on your weapon of choice.

    (Note that some of the following screenshots demonstrate some debug functionality available only to developers.  These shots are marked with “Dev mode enabled” in the bottom left corner and are not representative for the game visuals as seen by the players.)

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    Firing at a particular body part is only possible when you have a clear line of fire to it – as determined by the geometry of the level. Some body parts may be armored, presenting interesting moment-to-moment tactical choices during the battle.

    Body part targeting is never possible when you don’t have clear sight to the enemy like for example when you are firing at an enemy behind a wall…

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    Bullet Simulation

    Hitting someone behind a wall – what kind of sorcery is this? I apologize for getting a bit ahead of myself here, but I will explain immediately. Hitting enemies through walls and even through other enemies is possible in Jagged Alliance 3, thanks to our bullet simulation logic.

    The bullet simulation logic involves a set of calculations for each individual bullet fired, based on the caliber and type of the bullet as well as the materials encountered along its path (armor, bodies or environmental objects). Both accurate and inaccurate attacks may have various unexpected effects because of it, like penetrating an enemy body to hit another enemy, grazing an ally by accident or destroying some of the environment on the bullet path.

     

    The bullet simulation and the destruction system took considerable amount on effort to implement and support but all the effort was worth it because at its core combat in Jagged Alliance 3 aims to be a realistic experience, one that would not be possible without a realistic simulation running behind it. Which neatly brings me to the final, and perhaps the most important, point that I want to discuss in this DevDiary…

    No Visible Chance-to-Hit

    Each time you are setting up an attack in Jagged Alliance 3 you will see various factors that affect it both increasing and decreasing the chance for the attack to be accurate. What you will not see is an exact, precise chance-to-hit percentage number.

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    During the early years of development Jagged Alliance 3 displayed visible chance-to-hit, just like XCom and many other tactical games do. What we observed time and time again during our playtest sessions was that people were focusing on this number to the point where they centered their entire gameplay style around it, like never attacking when it is below a certain threshold. It also created moments of frustration and disappointment as in-your-face randomness sometimes tends to do.

    We don’t feel there is anything wrong in principle with visible chance to hit. There are many immensely successful tactical games out there that play exactly like this and CTH was present even in some of the most popular JA mods. It is, however, not the kind of a core experience we had in mind for Jagged Alliance 3, a game meant to represent firefights in their entire chaotic and messy glory. We wanted an experience that allows you develop a sense for certain situations, a game that makes you focus on your surroundings and the unique combat situation instead of a number in the interface. That was our reasoning when we decided to experimentally hide the chance-to-hit number in the interface and observe if the players will approach the combat situations differently afterwards. The first confirmation that we were on the right track came from none other than Ian Curry, the creator of Jagged Alliance, and many more followed in the months after – players were more involved now, found the situations more unpredictable and the game more unique and distinctive. Encounter after encounter, they were gradually developing a sense of mastery and generally had way more fun this way!

    We are fully aware that the decision to remove chance-to-hit will never sit right with some players but still feel that it is the crucial design decision that made our combat “click” and feel right. There are many tactical games with perfect and detailed CTH information out there, but too few where you play “by feel” as was the case with the classic Jagged Alliance!

    Thank you for reading the first combat DevDiary. Here are some of the subjects we might explore in the next one – Weather Effects, Night and Darkness, Stealth and Overwatch/Interrupt Attacks. If you are interested in any other aspect of the combat gameplay, please suggest in in the thread below.

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    5 hours ago, Solaris_Wave said:

    Do you mean that you would like to see an option to toggle CtH visibility?

    To anybody that wants to see that option, if it was there, why not just have it switched on all the time? The temptation would be there because you might possibly think, "Well, everybody else has probably got it switched on, I might as well do it too. Why make it harder for myself if everyone else is making it easier?"

    Now that is just a theory, not a complaint towards anyone in favour of a toggle. I know lots of people like to challenge themselves by increasing game difficulty.

    Nah man, the toggle is for the X-Com Players who need it.

    I would switch it off and never touch it, as long as the feel of Merc+Weapon is right.

    3 hours ago, Godzilla said:

    How are you supposed to know that??

    Im sorry but theres very big margin of error in knowing how accurate that shot is going to be. And theres no good way to tell. Unless you plan to do the math manually based on distance and know the formula and perks and weapon mods, and change that math anytime a merc levels up or changes their gear, theres not going to be an at all reliable or accurate way to know.

     

    Maybe thats why they made the maps so tiny. So that you always have at least ab50% chance to hit?

    Are you really kidding me? Did you ever play vanilla ja2 or only 1.13?

    Man, you start in Omerta, have 3 or 4 mercs with Deagle, Colts and your AIM Merc with MP5.

    After the first few enemies and then hunting the last one you got the feeling for it.

    As soon as you arrive in draußen airport you knew how to position, how to move to the building in the south east, then to the fence and cut your way to the airplane.

    The feel for the aiming when out of range, the hope to hit and not get hit .. that was the Ja2 feeling. 

    Ofc you can save and reload and reload and reload until you get it right.

    Or you could just play along with all the faults and get hit a few times.

    What does it matter? CtH is nice if you want a playthrough without getting hit. But that will deny you the adrenaline rush if you need to save a merc with a smoke and get your medic close to him and miss him for the next few sectors.

    They got much more valuable if you play without reload.. and CTH.

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    8 hours ago, chr_isso said:

    Nah man, the toggle is for the X-Com Players who need it.

    I would switch it off and never touch it, as long as the feel of Merc+Weapon is right.

    Are you really kidding me? Did you ever play vanilla ja2 or only 1.13?

    I played vanilla when I was 14 are YOU kidding me

    Plus vanilla was such a different and simplified experience compared to 1.13 that its not even worth mentioning

    8 hours ago, chr_isso said:

    Nah man, the toggle is for the X-Com Players who need it.

    I would switch it off and never touch it, as long as the feel of Merc+Weapon is right.

    Are you really kidding me? Did you ever play vanilla ja2 or only 1.13?

    Man, you start in Omerta, have 3 or 4 mercs with Deagle, Colts and your AIM Merc with MP5.

    After the first few enemies and then hunting the last one you got the feeling for it.

    As soon as you arrive in draußen airport you knew how to position, how to move to the building in the south east, then to the fence and cut your way to the airplane.

    The feel for the aiming when out of range, the hope to hit and not get hit .. that was the Ja2 feeling. 

    Ofc you can save and reload and reload and reload until you get it right.

    Or you could just play along with all the faults and get hit a few times.

    What does it matter? CtH is nice if you want a playthrough without getting hit. But that will deny you the adrenaline rush if you need to save a merc with a smoke and get your medic close to him and miss him for the next few sectors.

    They got much more valuable if you play without reload.. and CTH.

    Why would anybody want to not minimize getting hit and not maximize the hits you do.

    Im sorry but some of you pro CTH people sounding straight delusional atm.

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    5 hours ago, Godzilla said:

    I played vanilla when I was 14 are YOU kidding me

    Plus vanilla was such a different and simplified experience compared to 1.13 that its not even worth mentioning

    Why would anybody want to not minimize getting hit and not maximize the hits you do.

    Im sorry but some of you pro CTH people sounding straight delusional atm.

    1.13 was overly complicated and didn't bring a lot of joy to a lot of players.
    JA2 Community is split between pro 1.13 and pro staciatella...

    Why i would want to reduce CTH? Maybe for a more puristic experience? As i told you, you seem to be a save/load player who doesn't like your mercs getting hit.
    I prefer the other approach: gid gud, play smart and live with consequences of bad decisions, aka positioning, luring and bad cover.
    I don't need CtH if I get the hang of merc and weapon like you do in JA2. Simple as that.

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    If theres one thing the community isnt split on its that 1.13 is accepted universally as an improvement and expansion on vanilla.

    No idea where you're getting this from. Go to the bear pit, ask how much divide there is between 1.13 enjoyers and not 😆

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    It is fairly simple. It is like watching an action movie where the enemies shoot thousands of bullets at the hero and he barely got hit. It is boring and unrealistic.

     

    The tension and unpredictability without the visible CTH creates the impression that you are in a real shootout. Your decisions no matter how good they are can lead into total chaos. I like that, because it does not feel restricted. The result of every combat can be totally different.

     

    Sure maybe some people want more control and informations and I can understand that but JA3 is true to the Jagged Alliance roots so this decision is the right way.

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    18 hours ago, WILDFIRE said:

    It is fairly simple. It is like watching an action movie where the enemies shoot thousands of bullets at the hero and he barely got hit. It is boring and unrealistic.

     

    The tension and unpredictability without the visible CTH creates the impression that you are in a real shootout. Your decisions no matter how good they are can lead into total chaos. I like that, because it does not feel restricted. The result of every combat can be totally different.

     

    Sure maybe some people want more control and informations and I can understand that but JA3 is true to the Jagged Alliance roots so this decision is the right way.

    Oh yeah, such tension because you got no idea whats going on 10/10 👍

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    2 hours ago, Godzilla said:

    Oh yeah, such tension because you got no idea whats going on 10/10 👍

    You calling people stupid? Because you would have to be if you couldn't figure out what was going on with all the other info available other than CtH.

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    @Godzilla: The current combat system gives you the vague accuracy informations in the crosshair menu with a plus or minus for various aspects like merc stats, environment or the body part you aim at.

     

    Aside from that the mercs tell you directly if they are sure if they hit the target or not and a range bar helps you to know if you can reach your target.

     

    All this informations are more vague but are enough if you know your mercs, the equipment and the positioning of your squad.

     

    But if you do not like the current combat system I guess JA3 is then not the right game for you.

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    8 hours ago, DougS2K said:

    You calling people stupid? Because you would have to be if you couldn't figure out what was going on with all the other info available other than CtH.

    No, I mean possibly if they support bad (or weird and unjustified) design decisions.

    Unless you memorize all ranges and constantly calculate CTH by hand your cth "by feel" will be off by anywhere from 20% to 40% in each direction which may as well make everything complete guesswork. (Or in reality the devs will just make all maps super small and all engagements localized which means youll already start off 2 feet away from the enemy).

     

    Edited by Godzilla
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    8 hours ago, WILDFIRE said:

    @Godzilla: The current combat system gives you the vague accuracy informations in the crosshair menu with a plus or minus for various aspects like merc stats, environment or the body part you aim at.

     

    Aside from that the mercs tell you directly if they are sure if they hit the target or not and a range bar helps you to know if you can reach your target.

     

    All this informations are more vague but are enough if you know your mercs, the equipment and the positioning of your squad.

     

    But if you do not like the current combat system I guess JA3 is then not the right game for you.

    Not really, theres a huge difference between a 40% shot and a 70% or 80% shot, and this information will not be communicated.

    As far as I know the only form of cth is occassional vague replies from the mercs if the chances are close to zero. And any manual calculations you will do based on distance and cth formula you will not even know or be aware of.

    Removing cth turns jagged alliance into a completely different game, almost a different genre. It casualizes it and simplifies it HEAVILY, and turns it all into wishful thinking "hope it wont miss" simulator. And the way it plays will now be heavily luck based and will require you to always bring a full squad so even if your very well equipped and levelled merc misses then the back up merc wont, Wheres the minmaxing? Where are the ninja mercs that after 20 hours levelling have 100% cth, at least at a certain range with a given weapon (account for balancing). There are many problems here.

    Edited by Godzilla
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    You can argue the other way around and say that CTH is casualizing it, as you don't need to think about the environment that much, you get the potential result handed on a silver platter. Maybe similar as driving a racing game and having the "optimal line" displayed about where you need to drive in order to take the turn perfectly.

    I just started playing JA1 again and now I got to agree even more to not show CTH. In my firefights with .38 guns I almost need 1 "magazine" on each character to just kill one enemy. It would just feel totally odd, and unsatisfying if the game showed me with each shot "25%" which - in other games - usually means "don't dare to take the shot". But in these battles I am fighting, it's the best option I get.

     

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    4 hours ago, Godzilla said:

    Not really, theres a huge difference between a 40% shot and a 70% or 80% shot, and this information will not be communicated.

    As far as I know the only form of cth is occassional vague replies from the mercs if the chances are close to zero. And any manual calculations you will do based on distance and cth formula you will not even know or be aware of.

    Removing cth turns jagged alliance into a completely different game, almost a different genre. It casualizes it and simplifies it HEAVILY, and turns it all into wishful thinking "hope it wont miss" simulator. And the way it plays will now be heavily luck based and will require you to always bring a full squad so even if your very well equipped and levelled merc misses then the back up merc wont, Wheres the minmaxing? Where are the ninja mercs that after 20 hours levelling have 100% cth, at least at a certain range with a given weapon (account for balancing). There are many problems here.

    this is the biggest bs you wrote so far.
    congratulations on that.

    It's so impressive that I'll put you on my ignorelist now.

     

     

    On 5/10/2023 at 1:42 AM, WILDFIRE said:

    It is fairly simple. It is like watching an action movie where the enemies shoot thousands of bullets at the hero and he barely got hit. It is boring and unrealistic.

     

    The tension and unpredictability without the visible CTH creates the impression that you are in a real shootout. Your decisions no matter how good they are can lead into total chaos. I like that, because it does not feel restricted. The result of every combat can be totally different.

     

    Sure maybe some people want more control and informations and I can understand that but JA3 is true to the Jagged Alliance roots so this decision is the right way.

    Exactly! The lack of information is what truly made JA2 great - estimating if it's smart to run to the next treeline, to move to that rock.. will I get hit? will I be able to hit myself?
    Maybe i should not crouch but prone and move forward.
    Is the grass high enough?

    All that added to immersion - if you can just indicate everything, there is absolutely no challenge left.

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    @Godzilla: You think you know better than many JA2 veterans here including me, the devs, streamers and the creator of Jagged Alliance himself. You tell us that we do not know what we are talking about while you get nearly zero support. 

     

    Jagged Alliance 1/2 worked without CTH and the streamers who played the Beta of JA3 rarely lost soldiers. The combat system worked maybe not perfectly (it is a Beta) but it worked and I never heard feedback that the missing CTH destroys the game.

     

    Think about yourself and learn to respect the opinion of others. I can understand your fears regarding the combat system. But I am not here to tell you that you are clueless. I want a combat system that does not feel casual and restricted. If you want something else I can respect that but the game is nearly finished now and CTH is not a part of it.

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    12 hours ago, WILDFIRE said:

    @Godzilla: You think you know better than many JA2 veterans here including me, the devs, streamers and the creator of Jagged Alliance himself. You tell us that we do not know what we are talking about while you get nearly zero support. 

     

    Jagged Alliance 1/2 worked without CTH and the streamers who played the Beta of JA3 rarely lost soldiers. The combat system worked maybe not perfectly (it is a Beta) but it worked and I never heard feedback that the missing CTH destroys the game.

    Yes. Firstly Im just as much of a vet as much as you are, if not more. Secondly sometimes even heroes make mistakes, or make a decision that seems correct but ends up being wrong. JA2 and ian currie did a lot of things right but not everything. Its very important to remember that. Treating any product as a collection of perfect decisions would be extremely inaccurate in almost all cases.

    Most great projects end up doing a few things really right and those few core correct decisions outshine the mishaps or misses that hsppen elsewhere in the product.

    Edited by Godzilla
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    14 hours ago, chr_isso said:

    this is the biggest bs you wrote so far.
    congratulations on that.

    It's so impressive that I'll put you on my ignorelist now.
     

    Oh no, how will I live without the support of a less than smart person.

    The same person who btw thinks a simplified inventory is the biggest problem in JA3 (probably because he doesnt see any other points of difference between JA3 and JA2 other than the inventory, thats his level of perception and cognition)

    This is the problem folks.

    You only see the simplified inventory and think the rest is equivalent.

    I see how there are now tons of xcom like actions like hunker down shield action and the talent abilities and some kind of suppression fire type action. I see CTH missing I see grit and free move AP being introduced.

    Thats why its not an equal debate: some of us can see the nuanced and less than obvious changes the devs made, and others are still stuck at the "what, we no longer have pockets??" type level.

    Edited by Godzilla
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    @Godzilla: I played JA2 since day one and know the Bears Pit Forum and Fanbase since around 2002. I followed every project after JA2 and was always in contact with the specific devs to give feedback and to help as best I could. So you can say I am extremely dedicated.

     

    But it is not about you and me. Here in this forum and on other platforms we talked already multiple times about the combat system/CTH months ago. And the majority liked the idea of a more chaotic combat system without CTH, because it feels more natural and realistic. Is it perfect? No! Surely it has its own flaws but the visible CTH is also not perfect.

     

    We discussed the current combat system with all the advantages and disadvantages so often and now you come in and you think you know everything better. Feedback is always good but in a respectful way. I never said that everything is wrong with a visible CTH. It surely has its own advantages but it feels more like the nuXCOMs and not like the original Jagged Alliance.

     

    So as I said before you can not please everyone and maybe there is no perfect solution regarding the combat system. We still have to wait to test the game by ourselves. But maybe you will like the game more than you think right now.

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    On 5/11/2023 at 6:44 AM, Godzilla said:

    Not really, theres a huge difference between a 40% shot and a 70% or 80% shot, and this information will not be communicated.

    As far as I know the only form of cth is occassional vague replies from the mercs if the chances are close to zero. And any manual calculations you will do based on distance and cth formula you will not even know or be aware of.

    Removing cth turns jagged alliance into a completely different game, almost a different genre. It casualizes it and simplifies it HEAVILY, and turns it all into wishful thinking "hope it wont miss" simulator. And the way it plays will now be heavily luck based and will require you to always bring a full squad so even if your very well equipped and levelled merc misses then the back up merc wont, Wheres the minmaxing? Where are the ninja mercs that after 20 hours levelling have 100% cth, at least at a certain range with a given weapon (account for balancing). There are many problems here.

    Saying that removing a feature that wasn't featured in the game we pretty much define as the hallmark of the genre makes it...a different game and different genre...is a weird approach.

     

    I think the devs explained it really well in the devdiary video. CTH results in players acting with full information and always takes optimal shots, so the enemies have to be buffed and changed AI to compensate for it. Which makes the gameplay a lot less chaotic guerrilla warfare with fog of war and more of a number crunch game where all actions are to bump that CTH.

     

    I personally prefer not having 100% information and acting on feel and experience. That was what JA2 was all about. Getting to know your mercs, their weapons and how likely it would be to hit shots. You had to LEARN those things, not just press a button and see 90% chance to hit.

     

    CTH IS simplification. Because you don't need to learn and experience. The game just straight up tells you everything you need to know.

    Edited by ninjalex
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    On 5/11/2023 at 1:44 AM, Godzilla said:

    Not really, theres a huge difference between a 40% shot and a 70% or 80% shot, and this information will not be communicated.

    As far as I know the only form of cth is occassional vague replies from the mercs if the chances are close to zero. And any manual calculations you will do based on distance and cth formula you will not even know or be aware of.

    Removing cth turns jagged alliance into a completely different game, almost a different genre. It casualizes it and simplifies it HEAVILY, and turns it all into wishful thinking "hope it wont miss" simulator. And the way it plays will now be heavily luck based and will require you to always bring a full squad so even if your very well equipped and levelled merc misses then the back up merc wont, Wheres the minmaxing? Where are the ninja mercs that after 20 hours levelling have 100% cth, at least at a certain range with a given weapon (account for balancing). There are many problems here.

    OMG your still going on about this??? Give it up already man, there will be no CtH and not having CtH stays true to the franchise. You don't know what your talking about when you say "Removing cth turns jagged alliance into a completely different game, almost a different genre.". JA1 and JA2 never had CtH so please stop claiming they did. If you need a game to coddle your shooting decisions than this might not be the franchise for you. 

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    On 5/3/2023 at 5:28 AM, Grim said:

    This is not confusing to me. You missed the body part you aimed, but the bullet trajectory went through another..
    It's more confusing hitting ONLY the body part you aimed.

    My sentiment is, most people would prefer that and you may have to reconsider, from what I've read from the community.

    I'm late to this DevDiary, but THAT ^


    Very common for me in JA2 (1.13 naturally) to aim a 10 round burst at the legs (with a merc without auto weapons) from a high recoil smg/ar... and actually get a bullet or two on the torso (rarely, and very lucky, a headshot too). Anyways, bullets often hit another body part and always enjoyed seeing the "stat" loss from such randomness.

    I would also prefer missed bullets be able to hit another body part. If a miss can hit another enemy (or even merc), they should be able to hit another body part.

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