Reloecc
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Posts posted by Reloecc
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9 minutes ago, Reloecc said:
Actually.. I just realized while drawing this masterpiece that if the misses are related to accuracy (see bellow) it may be harder to hit a chest than head in certain accuracies (circle sizes) because of the rule "miss can't hit other body part". We saw on the streams (and it has been said on this forum multiple times) that headshots are too easy to land, thus op.
I should wrote "it may be harder to hit a target while aiming a chest, than while aiming a head". Because there is no "at least I hit a shoulder or head".
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10 hours ago, agris said:
@Reloecc I doubt it works the way you describe, as that is much too complex when an easier solution exists: they likely just choose to ignore the bullets that get a 'lucky miss', rather than shift distributions and probabilities.
That's the brute-force approach I mentioned. But don't get me wrong.. I am not saying you'd need to manipulate trajectories. I wrote that statistically distribution is shifted. Because if you ommit all miss shots, that would otherwise hit a target, you are changing a shape of distribution - shifting it away from the target. See image below, if you ommit all misses that could hit a target in other body part and your miss shots may land in the green area only, your distribution of where misses can go is highly altered.
Aiming a chest is the worst scenario because a ratio of green to red is enormous (in this particular accuracy, defined by the blue circle).
Actually.. I just realized while drawing this masterpiece that if the misses are related to accuracy (see bellow) it may be harder to hit a chest than head in certain accuracies (circle sizes) because of the rule "miss can't hit other body part". We saw on the streams (and it has been said on this forum multiple times) that headshots are too easy to land, thus op.
By saying "misses are related" to accuracy I mean there's no flat % predefined on misses. Like for example head allways have -30 % CtH and CtH is calculated without bullet simulation. And it also means there is not CtH cap (95% e.g.). If CtH is capped and your bullets may fly out of the accuraccy circle (because there's no accuracy circle) I am out.. that would be really bad 😞 so hoping that's not the case.
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9 hours ago, Haemimont_Boian said:
Currently inaccurate attacks may hit other objects or characters but not the targeted character in another body part - this was shielded explicitly, because it created too much confusion, e.g. "What do you mean I missed but I actually hit him? I aimed for the torso, how this became a headshot?"
Uh.. does this means you are heavily altering realistic behaviour of weapons? That's HUGE!! I doubt you'd allow situation, where the bullet would pass through a target without dmging it (when missing) and dmging a target right behind it. So the missed shots must be precalculated to prevent this. At least in terms "if shot should miss, its trajectory can't point anywhere to target".
It also means you need to simulate gravity and ricochets in before bullet is shot, to avoid "miss accidently hits a target". This could be either done by defining forbidden areas where a missed shot can never head to. Or by brute-forcing it: simulating shots until there is a miss that won't hit a target. (I could think of other ways, said two are most probable.)
This or that.. in conclussion if aiming to head with certain accuracy, there is no chance merc will underaim. The bullet will allways fly over head and shoulders, heavily shifting distribution of shots to upper half of dispersion circle (elipse).
Statistically it means that shooting with greater accuracy ends in lucky miss less often. Because let's say merc is crouching and aiming to standing soldier's head. If the accuracy is well enough, all missed bullets will just barelly miss the head (I assume as not applying accuracy to missed shot would look really stupid) and even if the target is close to other enemies (his allies), bullet simply can't hit them behind or at side of the target, because its trajectory is shifted above the head (can't aim lower to body). Meanwhile shot missed with low accuracy could find its trajectory aside the enemy shoulder more likely hitting enemy standing behind.
Does this also means that while aiming a chest I can't accidently hit head or an arm??? REALLY?!
I am sorry, I don't get it. Even if I am wrong in terms of how miss are calculated, why bother? All the hassle just because you need to communicate MISS somehow? Why? There's not CtH available, noone cares about miss reasons.
Just calculate a circle representing weapon sway, mercs stats, gun accuracy and pick a random spot in that circle to make a shot. Let the physics engine do the rest. Am I wrong?
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23 hours ago, Solaris_Wave said:
Everyone has a different view of what that may be, so being able to tailor the game to your tastes is a definite bonus.
Yes and no. If the devs plan releasing expansions, skins and new maps for $. Last thing they want is community making parallel game that may be more successful than vanilla. If community intents are not $ motivated, they usually are better suited to please fans, so risk is high.
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29 minutes ago, Tzg said:
So I am reading through this forum/community and one thing really struck me. You guys want this game to be JA2 1.14 not really JA3.
I hate, hate with the vengeance, JA2 1.13. I play JA2 couple of times a year - hell on some stage I kept an old laptop only for this purpose.
It's very true.. many people here would love to see 1.13 remade in a new engine. There is many arcade games xcom fans may play. But there is ONLY one deep realistic tactical (up to the point) "drivel" we do play. We hoped for a second one. I don't see it anyhow bad.
And about keeping an old laptop.. JA2 1.13 has many settings you can tweak to make it very similar (maybe same, I haven't tried) as vanilla. But with benefits of changed resolutions and rendering engines. No 1280x720 laptop needed 🙂.
38 minutes ago, Tzg said:No, thank you, JA neither 1 (fec…ing electric/monster magical eel’s anyone???) nor2 ( aliens??? And pretty much everything else!) supposed to be realistic or real.
I didn't get this part at all.
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7 hours ago, Solaris_Wave said:
One perk I am definitely not sure about is Trick Shot. While it is a good perk, it sounds as if none of those effects are achievable without the perk. Does that mean that without the perk, any shot to the arms and legs is just standard damage?
I'd suppose Trick Shot will guarantee such effects. Otherwise there's only low chance, maybe tied to crit.
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Just now, anon474 said:
I don't think they're poorly balanced, they're just not what I expected (either JA2 vanilla or JA2 1.13 AIMNAS has perfect perks, some perks are survival related, some are sniper related, some are SMG related, etc) and they have freemove and grit systems in them that I can't say I'm fond of.
If you choose to include freemove and grit maybe...but I think these are weird systems that are unrealistic and aren't necessarily in best place in JA.
Yes.. this. Every piece of unrealism makes this game more Xcom than JA. Herbs, perks, inventory, combat states. And it's not what I was looking for. Premises of current systems are really ok.. but for a tactical feeling, there can't be unrealistic simplification.
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7 hours ago, Mancho said:
Remember my words: you will not take away many fans of the XCOM series (the first two parts of the UFO of the 90s were beautiful, and the new ones are miserable and I'm talking about them), but you will also lose the trust of the army of JA2 fans, eventually giving birth to a hybrid that may sell well, but definitely will not become a cult, without bringing you the possible glory.
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I am deeply disappointed. JA2 + 1.13 MOD + AI - I'm coming to you again.JA3 is going to bee too complicated for XCOM fans (no CtH, too many unit states /bleed, flank, pindown, tired, etc./, too much in between combats). But it's too shallow for JA2/1.13 fans (no inventory management, heroic perks, action bar, cartoony, arcade element /like squad inv, endless ammo/granades, fixed weapon mods/).
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46 minutes ago, Image Miroir said:
Maybe we can structure ourselves to work on a scope statement, and identify all points we consider key. From our exchanges and discussions about it we can make a document, and then use it to pressure future development teams. If you, or anyone else is interested lets work on "Jagged Alliance Next"...
Maybe modded JA3 could save us.. but it's far away.
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2 hours ago, anon474 said:1 hour ago, Xeth Nyrrow said:1 hour ago, votadc said:
About perks.. I've just created
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Not all of them, only what I saw. Please add more if possible.
== HEALTH ==
Hit the deck
- Switching to Prone is Free
- Additional 20% Damage reduction from Explosives when ProneBeefed up
- Max HP increased by 20%.== AGILITY ==
Hit and run
- Gain free move after making a Melee AttackFlanker
- Deal 15% more Damage against Flanked enemies.Fast runner
- Incerased free move range when wearing Light Armor or not wearing any Armor== DEXTERITY ==
Untraceable
- Slower enemy detection
- Failed Stealth Kills deal 20% more dmgOpportunistic killer
- Enables Crits with Interrupt attacks.
- Automatic reload if Overwatch was used last turn.Deadeye
- Gain 5% extra crit chance per aim.Ambidexterous
- Reduced accuracy penalty when Dual-Wielding firearms.== STRENGTH ==
Shock assault
- Gain 30% extra Crit change in Point-Blank RangeIronclad
- Retain half of your Free Move Range while wearing cumbersome armor.Stress management
- Become Inspored after suffering a negative effect for the first time in combat.,Collateral damage
- Deal 15% extra Damage to enemies behind cover with Heavy Weapons and Machine Guns.
- Deal 30% Damage to objects with Heavy Weapons and Machine Guns.Recoil management
- Subsequent Attacks against the same target get an even higher Accuracy bonus.Killing spree
- Subsequent Melee Attacks ... different targets du ... turn deal 43 % extra ... Strength).
- Cancel Overwatch and Pin Down with successful Melee Attacks.Sudden strike
- Do not trigger Interrupt attacks while making Melee Attacks.True strike
- Succesful Melee Attacks are Crits and apply Marked to the target.== WISDOM ==
Savior
- Restore 20% more HP when using Bandage.
- Gain Free move when using Bandage on an ally.Distracting shot
- Firearm attack - Distracting Shot: Removes Overwatch and Pin Down. Doesn't provoke Interrupt attacks.Trick shot
- Legs shots apply Knocked Down.
- Arms shots apply Numbness.
- Groin shots apply Exposed.== IMP - Personal perks ==
Psycho
- Can decide to use a more vicious attack than the one selected.
- Additional conversation options.Negotiator
- Reduces prices for Sector Operations and Boat Travel.
- Additional conversation options.Scoundrel
- First weapon swap for the turn is free.
- Additional conversation options.== IMP - Tactical perks ==
Auto weapons
- Reduced Accuracy penalty when using Burst Fire or Full autoHeavy Weapons
- Attacks and Setup with Heave Weapons and Machine Guns have reduced AP cost.Hand to Hand
- Make an Interrup melee attack when an enemy in melee range attacks or tries to move away during enemy turn.Nigh ops
- Reduced penalties to Accuracy when at Night and in underground Sectors.Martial arts
- Improved accuracy with Melee attacks.
- Improved defense against Melee attacks.Teaching
- Faster completion of the Train Militia and Training operations.
- Grant 10% extra XP to the squad (does not stack).CQC Training
- Major Accuracy bonus when attacking enemies at short range (degrades with distance).Mr. Fixit
- Major bonus to Disarm traps, Hack devices, and Pick lock checks.
- Unjamming weapons costs 1 AP.Stealthy
- Harder to spot by enemies while Sneaking.
- Slighty increasedchance for Stealth kills.== Unique perks ==
Barry - Bouiteque explosives
- Produces 1 Shaped Charge every 60 hours.Kalyna Sokolova - Inevitable strike
- Ranged attack that bypasses damage reduction from ArmorSteroid - Steroid smash!
- An Unarmed attack that sends the target flying and inflicts collateral damage to the nearby objects. Accuracy is based on STR instead of DEX.Wolf - Jack of all trades
- All operations that Wolf undertakes are completed 33% faster.Blood - Flying daggers
- Move to another position, throwing knives at nearby enemies while moving.Raven - Top spotter
- Setting up Overwatch applies Marked to enemies in the Overwatch area.MD - Find my feet
- Can become Inspired and increase team's Morale during combat.Fox - Striking looks
- When Fox opens combat, enemies becode Surprised instead of Aware.
- Retains the AP from the opening attack.Shadow - Fleeting Shadow
- Can Sneak while standing.
- No movement penalties while Sneaking.
- Gains 10 Grit on Succesfull Stealth kills.== Unknown category ==
Zoophobic (MD has it)
- Loses Morale when attacked by an animal.Optimist (MD has it)
- Small chance to prevent a team Morale loss.== Special keywords descriptions ==
- Inspired = Gain 4 AP. Only once per turn.
- Overwatch = A special action that makes a character fire at the enemies entering a covered area.
- Interrupt = Some actions and perks like overwatch, Pin Down, and Retaliation allow units to Interrupt the opposing team's turn and attack.
- Pin down = A special action that prepares a powerful attack against a target on the next turn. The target must still be visible to the attacker.
- Free move = Each turn a character may move without spending AP.
- Crit = 50% more dmg
- Point Blank Range = 4 tiles
- Setup = Machine guns need to be set before firing to avoid suffering a heavy Accuracy penalty.
- Marked = Next attack against this unit will be a Critical Attack.
- Surprised = A Surprised character will become Aware at the start of their next turn and has better survival chance agaist Stealth kills.
- Sneaking = Character in Sneak mode are harder to spot by enemies and can attempt Stealth Kills.
- Stealth kills = Attack in Sneak Mode have a chance to kill an enemy outright and without additional noise.
- Grit = When taking damage, Grit is depleted before HP are lost.
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Based on your last topics, you really may be interested in JA2 1.13. Because it has zombies, mercs backgrounds and capturing / offering surrender too.
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Zombies already confirmed in trailers.
(It's timestamped link to youtube, there is a hospital and people transforming and going feral).
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12 minutes ago, Claudius33 said:
JA2 1.13 introduced the drop all option. I never used it, because as you say you get to much stuff too early.
Little Off Topic: 1.13 has settings for "enemy drop has low condition" and also "militia uses sector equipment". In combination with balancing JA2 has: "Better equip you have, better equip enemy has." things works just nice. In result, enemies drop plenty of tommy submachines noone wants to use, but milita will be happy for them.
If it's about balance, if "enemies drop all" leads to unbalance, do things to balance it out:
- don't allow sector sell (only vendor sell)
- drop dmged equipment
- don't prepare loots elsewhere
- don't allow looting grass for meds
- don't give away free money
- make repairing long / hard with parts needed
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9 hours ago, anon474 said:
It seems like in JA3 there's an emphasis on abilities vs items and stats, and I think this is a bad decision because it makes everything seem unrealistic, and moves us away from serious strategy, to more of a domain of "well as long as you have the right ability, it really doesn't matter what your stats are".
I've been saying same since perks were presented. We need a name for the "skills over stats" concept. How to call this approach?
If we think about this, we'll find out that almost everything is derivated from this concept. Combat, operations, interruption system, ammo types, inventory, weight, offense, defense, scouting, training, stealth, melee, crafting. Everything is related to skill system.
JA2 has 14 skills, JA2 1.13 has ~150 mercs' backgrounds and ~40 skills.. NONE of them emphasizes ACTIONS merc can do, only their STATS.
JA3 skills give you free movements, free knives, two granade throws, more AP when affected by negative things, flying uppercut unarmed attacks (erm xD), etc.
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4 hours ago, anon474 said:
If you don't reposition patrols it's just SO EASY to ambush them with a grenade. Maybe make this only take place with a patrol that's very close together, not just any group of enemies.
Yes.. and that's why the JA2 has not granades laying everywhere. Tossing them may result in terrible fails. To balance things. Also enemies stands in good cover when guarding, other enemies patrols around. And if you use granade to one of them, 10 others will come to investigate. That's an awesome system. All that (and more) turned into "we don't bother, just make them to find cover".
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12 minutes ago, Hendrix said:
Falling back on my earlier post about sniper rifles looking overpowered, I think theres an additional option to balance them a bit.
I'd balance sniping by tunnel vision sight + flanks. So if you leave your sniper scoping all the time from the distance (because scoping in costs a lot of ap), you can't see enemies approaching from the sides. I would not care about playstyles.. enemies should flank you regardless your weapon choices.
It could be like: scoping + first shot costs 10 ap + 20% aim penalty, second costs 5 ap and 10% aim penalty, third (and more) shot is 5 ap and no penalty.
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7 minutes ago, Kordanor said:
Ah, alright, yeah, thats more on the UI side. And if resolution allowed it back then, JA1/2 might have had that as well I guess. But back then the resolution just wasn't high enough to make it look pretty. Instead UFO as well as JA1 used a "reserve" option, which was basically the same. Once the merc ran a certain range, he automatically stopped so that you can still shoot.
Yes yes.. it's a visual thing. All those little things alltogether are the reasons people see xcom in ja3.. I am trying not to judge if those similarities are bad or good (in this topic), just tried to express what I see.
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7 minutes ago, Claudius33 said:
Actually you can't put weapons in the squad inventory. No way you let invisible mules carry your precious mortars and LMGs or any weapon you want to sell.
Apparently you can put ammo (don't kwnow for heavy ammo such as rockets), and ressources such as medecinal herbs, spare parts.
I am aware of that.. and still see it irritating.
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6 minutes ago, Claudius33 said:
@Reloecc Hm, you should also make another list, why the game does not look xcomish.
I am not doubting there are many differences from xcom. You said "JA3 has nothing to do with XCOM" and I have to point things out for you.
6 minutes ago, Claudius33 said:Again it's a tactical RPG not a military simulator. Who can stand an AK burst, stay on his feet and heavily wounded accurately shoot back, if not in a game.
Thing is.. JA2 is meant to be (a little crazy) military simulator. While XCOM is meant to be tactical arcade game.
12 minutes ago, Claudius33 said:Squad inventory was used in JA Flashback, which by the way used the same "xcomish" visuals. Didn't remember that many complaints regarding visuals and squad inventory at that time, ok there were other reasons.
Look.. when the community compares xcom and ja, they talk about its most succesful versions. Those are Xcom2/Xcom:EU and JA2/JA2:Wildfire .. there are core fans for everything. And conservative or progressive people around. But stuff going around currenty is meant this way. Flashback has under 50 % ranking everywhere.. don't open up this box 😉
19 minutes ago, Claudius33 said:Sure enemies look a bit all alike. In a 3D zoomable environment, if you don't use tricks like helmets or masks, you need quite a lot of faces if you don't want them to look like clones, more over like important NPCs or mercs.
It's not about look.. Yes, recolored parts would be nice. But it's about their predefined types, where you know what to expect from them (snipers, grenadiers, suicidal melees, etc.) with their different AI behaviour and equipment. That's what xcom does. That's what ja didn't do.
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16 minutes ago, Kordanor said:
colorful can/can't shoot movement boundaries (visual)
Not sure what you mean with boundaries. Or do you mean the interface? You can also add, that it's 3D (and 3D = Xcom apparently, but at least it's not 3D= realtime anymore)Everytime you control your merc, you can see yellow and blue areas around a merc. Areas are for "you can run there and have enough ap to shoot after" and for "if you reach this, you can't shoot with selected weapon anymore". It's very same as move/sprint areas in new XCOM games.
21 minutes ago, Kordanor said:squad inventory (with ammo etc.) (gameplay)
Guess so, don't remember squad inventory or anything like that in NuXCom and havent played XCom2I meant: In xcom games, you don't bother with meds / ammo / granades etc. You don't care its weight and what merc will carry it. JA3 devs said "we do handle weight in inventory", but on the other side, you can just put important stuff in squad inv, where you don't care. So.. it's just closer to xcom, not same.
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33 minutes ago, Claudius33 said:
I saw in a stream an additional cross removed from Ivan's AK. The model was redrawn accordingly. Then the streamer put it again.
So I assume that most of weapons mods can be revoved, except some like JA2's rod & spring or gun barrel extender.
by "not being able to remove a weapon mod" people reffers to "you can't get a scope off from a weapon and put it on an another wepon / or sell it". Because weapon mods are crafted in place on particular weapon.
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22 hours ago, Claudius33 said:
Same thing for the XCOM syndrome. How many times have you read in this forum or the Bear's Pit or Steam, it's just XCOM with JA skins. And yet, except for visuals and (maybe) the initial repositioning, JA3 has nothing to do with XCOM. You can't cope with XCOM like visual help, be my guest.
I'll name list of things the game looks xcomish for:
- colorful can/can't shoot movement boundaries (visual)
- ui (visual)
- half/full covers (visual)
- camera shots (visual)
- reduced max ap, so ap costs can't be finely tuned (gameplay)
- squad inventory (with ammo etc.) (gameplay)
- simplified inventory (gameplay)
- no energy bar (gameplay)
- unrealistic perks (like more dmg to limbs, or free actions after dmging) (gameplay)
- overwatch (gameplay)
- combat start repositioning (gameplay)
- enemies' detection system (area based, not sound / los based) (gameplay)
- per map quests (gameplay) and its' quest log (visual)
- enemy types (all look same, have same equipment, does same things / per category) (gameplay)
- separated enemy clusters (only few of them goes after you after shooting) (gameplay)
- free weapons (blood having endless throwing knives + skill, barry pooping granades etc.)
- action bar with skills that costs full ap to do something, or merge actions for less ap cost (gameplay)
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2 minutes ago, Hongweibing said:
Here I think the issue is not so much the repositioning
2) Classic mode: like in JA2 - switch to turn-based mode upon spotting an enemy, and repositioning is allowed based on an "interrupt" action of sorts once the enemies spot you - if the enemies' stats allow them to interrupt (higher level etc.), they can reposition, or even attack you, but otherwise, you get to finish the round uninterrupted.
(regardless, I think that there has to be an option to manually enter turn-based mode whenever you want)
This is what I'd want. But I am VERY afraid it'd take many hours to fix current JA3 interrupts. (saying "to fix" because it simply is a mistake, that enemies are moving at combat start).
DevDiary 6 - Combat, Part one
in DevDiaries
Posted
It's about risk vs reward, yes? If there is not enough reward for a risk, why bother? It's about leg / arm hits had no impactful outcome in JA2. Yes.. soldier may collapse or drop a weapon. But if he has enough AP to shoot in the next round, it's nothing compared to headshot. It's not about seeing / not seeing %.
Btw I am not pro CtH on screen. But be sure your (and devs') arguments about "not looking just the numbers" works only if the system is built around it. I am very sure seeing % may work very well if other game aspects are respecting it. Devs decided they want a chaos and crazzines.. no doubt. Visible % goes well only with seriousness and tactical combat.