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Balance modding thoughts


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It's coming, so I'd like to get some feedback on changes I'd want to see/make when it does:

  • Replace "conservation of gunpowder" with "bullet A is bullet A"
    • Weapon damage based on ammo used+barrel length, not weapon class or firing mode
    • No more double damage for being a Sniper Rifle or half for firing Full Auto (shift the distinction to critical/stealth hits and range profiles)
    • No more "automatic kill on sneak attack", just bonus damage (i.e.: all stealth kills will fail and become regular hits)
    • Significantly increase the cost and reduce the firing rate of machine guns/full auto to compensate for "bullet A is bullet A"
  • Rescale AP to double the amount, facilitating other changes.
    • Add more granularity to certain actions (e.g. vary Aim cost by scope type)
    • Reduce the variance between lowest and highest possible amount
    • Reduce the impact of AP recovery/denial, but allow stacking (e.g.: multiple suppression/inspiration effects)
    • Reduce the amount of Free Move (it's very strong)
  • Reduce the power of Overwatch/Interrupt setups
    • Make the cost of such attacks match regular shots without mods/perks (Reduce the base amount to 1 attack)
    • Restrict the number of "free" interrupt counter attacks
  • Fix useless/overpowered perks and "bad" default builds
    • Make sure everyone has at least 2 talents in addition to their signature skill
    • Add a signature skill for IMP character
    • Add and distribute a new talent for "this is a sniper"
    • Optimize some of the default perk selections
    • Find a way to make Steroid and Dr. Q skills work with a gun in hand(s)
    • Find a way to make combat knives an off-hand item like grenades (usable in same set with a handgun)
    • Rework Ambidexterous to AP benefit that double dips with dual wielding (but still helps when not)
  • Inventory management
    • Reduce the variance in number of slots (add slots gained from Health, reduce slots from Strength)
    • Adjust what is and what isn't a personal/squad storage (squad only for materials and quest items)
    • Rescale the stack sizes for ammo/grenades to make carrying them actually matter (2 crafts per slot, i.e. 60 rounds)
  • Enemy balance
    • Adjust enemy templates for other changes being made
    • Additional enemy templates, e.g.: so that not all Legion snipers have 35 HP, etc.
    • Late-game enemy varieties for all factions, in case they are the last one the player confronts
    • Larger outpost garrisons and raid parties (especially in "Mission Impossible")
  • Minor changes
    • Larger teams and less RNG in Militia combat
    • Give empty hands the "this weapon is free to swap to" property
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I still won't get to play the game for another few weeks, where I can then create my own verdict on the game, but these sound like good changes based on the description. I will play the game through once, as intended, but as I play I will be making notes of all weapons and what I would want to change. Granted, that the weapons behave in this JA3 universe that Haemimont has created and by changing them, it might change how the whole game flows, but being a 'gun nut' I simply can't let slide a weapon that doesn't behave like I expect it to. Therefore, I will undoubtedly create my own mod(s), which will hopefully integrate with other people's.

With respect to the above mod though, I will say that the changes look to go beyond what I may have wanted to modify myself but they all look promising. Hopefully, others who are currently playing the game can give a more educated opinion on what they think of those changes. People are playing and enjoying the game but are they enjoying the game simply for what it is? Would all these, and any other, especially realism changes elevate the experience or just make it different?

Edited by Solaris_Wave
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I dont want my game too realistic. I like it to be arcade-style.

But what really irritates me, weapon stats are too incongruent to make sense and for me, taking some fun out of the game..

Overview / conservation of gunpowder.
The problem with the idea of third a bulletdamage (..which might be logical in the reality of an parallel universe however, like Jagged-Games..) is for me, that supression in JA3 doesnt really make a difference or even exist. In my previous JA3 experiences enemy didnt care too much, when they were under fire (by some ARs, SNrs and an HMG simultaneously!).
Plus, the enemy HPs didnt get affected by the successfull fire, neither.

One merc was in overwatch-mode, waiting behind cover with an MG42.

1: The enemy was visible, but still out of range.
2. Enemies ran in range & merc interrupted and made a "bit" of damage with consecutives burst. Merc: No more APs. Enemy: Surpression, huh? - No clue.
3. The enemy knife fighters attacked after getting hit. Run around some obstacles, behind mercs cover and cut him to pieces.
4. Result: My machine gunner saw and reactet as soon as possible, but had almost no chance against 2 knifers.

[Another weak point of HMGs is, i think or i dodnt know how:
You cant stray the bullets, for better results.
Thats sad, it was really fun and would have brought tactical deepness.]

Conclusion for me:

As it is at the moment, the WHOLE MG class and the tactical task for it, makes not too much sense in JA4, imo. Cause is a bit useless in my opinion:
You cant really kill easily with an Boneswaw-MG42 (cause Damage-points are HEAVILY lowered) and you also cant really supress with it. As if that wasnt enough, range of a waterpistol. The MG42 feels bit more like a begging-mouse for me.

So shooting MGs is rather a waste of APs imo. Solution: In JA2 1.13 you could easily change the supression factor. Setting bullet damage factor "normal" would be also an option, to help Machineguns out.

Another point is, that enemy overwatch is visible to you and it seems to me, that your own overwatch-views are visible to the enemy too.
Even if youre own hidden mercs are not discovered by the enemy.

So you can observe the enemy avoiding your carefully planed traps; run along the borders of the overwatchviewed areas and shoot your mercs from short distances or even attack your overviewer with knifes. So sometimes its actually a trap for your mercs, setting an overview-trap. Mercs are not allowed to react, having no interrupts and overhelmed by the enemy.

?!? It seems to me, when youre setting an overwiew area, AI who sees that move, immediately knows the presence of your merc.. Is that so, anyone experiences that too?!?


Anyway i think it will be a big balance-problem, to change much of the overwatch/interrupt system..
The game could become too easily, i suposse:

Actually the enemy-squad sizes are not that large. And enemy AI is sometimes not so clever, seeing the example above, running with knifes in a defended position. But with the system as it is, they ARE successfull with that heroic behaviour;
running in mercs positions, then standing just 2cents away from merc, throwing a flashbang then and starting to stab the helpless merc.
("For the Major!", instead of an famous religious war cry ; ).

If you change too much in that system, you have to do also some other changes, like giving other enemy gun choices and so on.. Sooner or later there will be the next JA3 1.13, unavoidable. Like you, @Jaywalker meant and explained above.

Actually, the new system is the new challenge, more than other factors for me.

But if you change that system, without further developments, like the topic meant, game would become drastically too easy, i suppose.


For my personal aspects (nice-looking guns with weird and questionable quality of logical values) like @Solaris_Wave mentioned, i also intend to massively change ALL weapon stats, for better harmonizing with my weapon-experiences and knowledge in the topic. I dont think it will crash games reality, if its becoming harder, its even better.

In JA2 changing weapon-RANGES to real ones was a balance-changer, when not balance-killer (400 fields instead of 40 fields for example).
So i'll only want to do changes to ranges, for proportions asspects, so they are more reasonable and better ajar the relationship of real ones (meaning for some ARs approximately the
doubled range of some SGMs).

Also i like to change damages, again @Jaywalker: "bullet A is bullet A".

In my opinion there are too many damage differences in the weapon classes and also differences in the same caliberclass are too high (a 7.62 IS a 7.62).
Weapon penetration system also makes no sense for me, or said better the conversion from real life to game-reality (cartridge NOT weapon).

Or shotguns, which need too many APs as well, imo. (You dont have too aim too precise with a shotgun when youre shooting buckshots - the advantage of shotguns, youre faster compared to guns of all sorts).

Its not the fact, the gun-system is unrealistic, im wondering about. For me, it just feels like stats were coincindentally mixed together and gun-values were designed based on their pure look, or an subjective perception of something like a "coolness factor".


But however, thats not so terrible, because these are rather minor changes and they wont change that much, what you, @Jaywalker said.

It might cause serious balance problems and taking fun out of the game, changing too much existing, Like @Solaris_Wave already wrote before.
So maybe you should think deeper about the results to do a lot of changes and the solutions for balance-problems, maybe.


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