Melee Build Testing

[Biff]

Does anyone know if the Ultimate Ninja Melee build video is legit? On there is an IMP called Bruce Lee that runs around one-shotting groups of enemies with unaimed knife attacks to the neck. At one point he kills 10 enemies with 10 stabs in a single turn and never misses.

 

I did some testing. I gave Shadow the exact same stats as the Bruce Lee IMP. 

Shadow's unaimed CTH the neck ranged from 65-85% depending on if he was higher or lower LEVEL than the enemy.

 

Even while surrounded by enemies that were all lower level than Shadow (+10% hit bonus) he still never managed to kill more than six. Unaimed neck stabs miss pretty often. In one test I only managed to kill a single enemy because I missed so much. Most enemies took at least 2 stabs to the neck.

 

Am I missing something obvious? I get the feeling some of these melee build videos might be using the hidden never miss cheat.

 

What do you guys think?

[5Cents]

Hm, i suppose that might be, that there was some cheating. But i could also depends on other used mods, which we're used. Or its simply depending on an easier difficult-level.

However. When i started my first JA3 play, my stratetic Intension was to do only cqb stealth kills, and i hired only one merc, for doing that, Blood, would be an good deal, i thought. I didnt choose him in the past very often, but  remembered his 'Welcome to the 90s' Martial-Arts.

But after arriving and finished a few sectors, i became aware of, that CQB s not that fun, i thought it would be. Devs spoke about that topic and they wouldnt do it the same was, like in JA2. I recognized that, because it was to dangerous to sneak, hide and kill, with only one merc and almost no possiblities to confuse the enemy, with stones, Marvels, bobby traps. Sadly, that tactic didnt work, so i switched to sharphooting, where i had similar problems, but it was much more easier to play with.

So i think, with JA3 Vanilla, all these QCB and no firearms-used fights are too uneffective. At least in highest difficult.

 

Edited August 12, 2023 by 5Cents

[Biff]

7 minutes ago, 5Cents said:

So i think, with JA3 Vanilla, all these QCB and no firearms-used fights are too uneffective. At least in highest difficult.

Yeah melee feels very weak after all my testing. You can sometimes take out a few enemies with a knife in a single turn, but it requires the stars to align, a special build, and lots of luck.

Blood felt almost useless when I used him, it's embarrassing how much his throwing knives miss.

[sandman25dcsss]

2 hours ago, Biff said:

Yeah melee feels very weak after all my testing. You can sometimes take out a few enemies with a knife in a single turn, but it requires the stars to align, a special build, and lots of luck.

Blood felt almost useless when I used him, it's embarrassing how much his throwing knives miss.

Did you have 12 free movement on start of every turn? When assaulting the military base my Blood traveled out of the room he was hiding in, killed a couple of enemies with the Thing and then traveled back to that room. Next turn repeat, and then again. It was a bit repetitive though. Every melee attack is guaranteed critical with 200% damage.

Edited August 12, 2023 by sandman25dcsss

[sandman25dcsss]

I don't speak German, but I see "feindhaltung" on the accuracy screen. It is translated as "hostility", but I don't see anything like that in my game. Maybe this is what we are missing.

[D13]

1 hour ago, sandman25dcsss said:

I don't speak German, but I see "feindhaltung" on the accuracy screen. It is translated as "hostility", but I don't see anything like that in my game. Maybe this is what we are missing.

That's "Enemy Stance", makes stabbing more accurate if the target is crouching (not sure about prone).

[sandman25dcsss]

I am repeating melee build of Russian guy (level 6 currently with 2 outposts, have just captured second one having 6 wounds which is max) and I don't see how it is possible to have 100% accuracy when targeting neck. Either the German guy was lucky or used some mod.

Edited August 13, 2023 by sandman25dcsss

[Biff]

20 hours ago, sandman25dcsss said:

Did you have 12 free movement on start of every turn? When assaulting the military base my Blood traveled out of the room he was hiding in, killed a couple of enemies with the Thing and then traveled back to that room. Next turn repeat, and then again. It was a bit repetitive though. Every melee attack is guaranteed critical with 200% damage.

I think so. I'm not exactly sure how the APs are calculated, but 12 sounds about right for a guy like Blood. He also gets 5-6 Free Move APs.

In my game I mostly used him for his throwing knives, but they were hilariously bad.

[sandman25dcsss]

I found 

11 minutes ago, Biff said:

I think so. I'm not exactly sure how the APs are calculated, but 12 sounds about right for a guy like Blood. He also gets 5-6 Free Move APs.

In my game I mostly used him for his throwing knives, but they were hilariously bad.

There is a mod to show free move. Here you can see I have 10 (I didn't take Fast Runner perk).

My tests show I need machete, knife is not enough. Neck attacks have 74% chance with Dex 89 and non-neck attacks with knife are too weak even with 100 Strength and max rage:

This is how the combat started on previous turn, IMP killed 6 guys during single turn.

Edited August 13, 2023 by sandman25dcsss

[Biff]

Thanks, that's a useful mod. I just quickly tested it out using Fox with 100 in all stats.

 

She starts with 13 APs and 6 Free Move. (stable mood)

3 APs is base for all characters, +10 APs from her Agility.

Free Move seems to be +1 for every 10 Agility after 40, I think.

 

This is same fight with Fast Runner perk. She gains +9 Free Move.

I wonder how you got 10 Free Move, do you have the Frogleaping or Hit and Run perks?

[sandman25dcsss]

@Biff

Yes, I have Frogleaping. My AGI is 95.

Edited August 13, 2023 by sandman25dcsss

[Stuurminator]

On 8/12/2023 at 9:14 AM, 5Cents said:

But after arriving and finished a few sectors, i became aware of, that CQB s not that fun, i thought it would be. Devs spoke about that topic and they wouldnt do it the same was, like in JA2. I recognized that, because it was to dangerous to sneak, hide and kill, with only one merc and almost no possiblities to confuse the enemy, with stones, Marvels, bobby traps. Sadly, that tactic didnt work, so i switched to sharphooting, where i had similar problems, but it was much more easier to play with.

Melee is plenty fun when you've got one or two melee experts out of a diverse squad. Then it's one more tool in your arsenal. I imagine it would get pretty samey if you tried to field a squad using nothing but melee. That's probably true with any character build, though - the gameplay really benefits when everyone on your squad fights a different way.

[sandman25dcsss]

Melee is the only type which allows to play without Mechanic. Throwing away armor is annoying though.

I have level 5 Flurry along with level 10 IMP and it shows how important weapon and skills are for melee, Flurry can barely kill 1 enemy per turn while IMP kills 4-5 enemies every turn.

[sandman25dcsss]

Finished my melee game, still had just 85% chance for neck in final battle. The final battle was extremely easy, AI cannot handle situation when you move 15 tiles, kill an enemy and return back to starting position in another room. I had melee Smiley also, he can have nice stats if you spend a few months on his training, 3 melee mercs felt extremely strong on most maps.

Got Flarry downed in battle with Major, 30 clustered enemies is too much despite attacking an edge of the map with some cover. Flarry was killed from 120 HP by single enemy due to 2 bursts (AI gets +60% free movement on MI so it is impossible to defend vs such things).

 

All bosses except Jackhammer died in 1 attack (Major wasn't even attacked, died just because being adjacent to my IMP, lol). Jackhummer took 2 shots, I didn't have the Thing then. No mines captured ever, quite unusual game 😉 

 

Time for game with pistols, SMG and shotguns, should be fun.

Edited August 15, 2023 by sandman25dcsss

[Biff]

Nice work!

[BitsizedGamer]

My Melee-based IMP M.I. difficulty start, soloing the first few sectors:

 

[Biff]

11 hours ago, BitsizedGamer said:

My Melee-based IMP M.I. difficulty start, soloing the first few sectors:

Good video! You made it look almost too easy...until that near-death experience at the tower 😁

[BitsizedGamer]

On 8/26/2023 at 1:00 AM, Biff said:

Good video! You made it look almost too easy...until that near-death experience at the tower 😁

Thanks! Ha! No kidding.... O.P. was hanging onto life through gritted teeth....