List of Changes that could be Made to make JA3 more like JA2

[anon474]

1 Get rid of grit and freemove systems

2 Change perks around to mostly give +1 stat here or +5% aim chance there, -1 AP to reload cost or something, that type of idea. JA2 and JA2 1.13 have good perks to use as examples for this.

3 Add magazines and more hardcore vest items and LBE items

4 Add CtH %.

5 prohibit the crafting of ammo, and attachments, force both of those items to either be found or bought, which will make them far rarer and more interesting and important to find. JA2 had lots of these little "mini games" and "sub-games" to where, repair was its own "game" you had to discover, and keep on top of or your items would explode, and so was keeping up stocks of ammo.

6 modernize the setting to look more 80s and 90s, JA2 almost had american architecture and buildings despite being set in a improverished nation.

7 allow us to modify the characters looks at least somewhat so they don't look like they're wearing civilian clothes all the time, it's a bit weird.

8 I think the additions of various interactable objects like hackable laptops are perfectly fine and interesting additions, more of this is fine and doesn't need changing.

9 The articles written about how this game has "tone whiplash" and other stupidity (IGN and rock paper shotgun articles, both written by very let's say woke looking writers) are stupid and more than just stupid, harmful, because they basically make it to where the audience is poisoned and unable to enjoy JA3 naturally, as they were pre-conditoned by those articles' dumb analysis of the writing and setting, while without those articles people would've just bought the title and enjoyed it most likely and not given a second thought to any amount of "tonal whiplash". I think they have a point about some of the one-liners needing work, but this is such cherry picking in my opinion, that it's clearly meant to attract attention to something that would've been overlooked.

10 Make this strategy look more like a JA2-era strategy with a very zoomed out camera than a CRPG, it seems like JA3 will have a lot of CRPG sensibilities similar to Divinity 2, which is not bad, but maybe in some cases it can be bad, or not as serious or realistic. For example how CRPG emphasizes very localized battle encounters wtihin 10-20 feet of the start of the encounter, but in JA2 you'd almost alert the entire sector and have to fight through the entire sector, and it would be a very long drawn out and in a way very serious mission and a simulation of a real life assault on a large sector and map with enemies in it.

Edited May 3, 2023 by anon474

[anon474]

Oh and:

11 Add NVGs and similar type items, I think those were missing from beta versions

12 Add multiple levels of NVGs, and headphones, and similar.

[anon474]

edit:

AND ANOTHER THING THIS IS SO IMPORTANT

13 PLEASE REMOVE these silly active abilities, like Kalyna's AP shot. What is this? Why does she have some special ability (on cooldown above all else) to bypass armor. What? That's so not WYSIWYG or realistic. And that's so CRPG-ified imo. Scrap ALL ABILITIES bar 1 shoot 2 shoot in burst or full auto. Get rid of the active talent abilities like Kalyna's ability or Igor's. Get rid of any kind of pinning shot. Get rid of suppressive fire shot.

There should be two abilities in all of JA3: 1 shoot your weapon (or use another item like a grenade or a knife) and 2 set up overwatch and get ready to react. And by overwatch, I just mean JA: flashback style overwatch, no cone. Cone of fire-based overwatch, imo, is ridiculous. If the merc can see an enemy npc, then they should trigger the overwatch then and there. Narrow cones, imo, are not that strong. I mean, again, mechanically I understand you're trying to make JA3 interesting, but imo, JA3 and JA2 were interesting for very different reasons.

14 Maybe change some of the UI around to be more window-in-window than full-screen windows like the weapon inspect window or the dialogue window. I just think it's less in keeping with more strategic roots of the franchise.

Edited May 3, 2023 by anon474

[anon474]

10 minutes ago, anon474 said:

I mean, again, mechanically I understand you're trying to make JA3 interesting, but imo, JA3 and JA2 were interesting for very different reasons.

"JA franchise* and JA2 were very interesting for very different reasons" rather, please forgive my English

Edited May 3, 2023 by anon474

[Solaris_Wave]

I agree with many of those points, with the exception of points 4 and 6. However, those are just personal preferences rather than saying they are wrong. The others though are very sensible.

Edited May 4, 2023 by Solaris_Wave

[Reloecc]

21 hours ago, anon474 said:

I just mean JA: flashback style overwatch, no cone. Cone of fire-based overwatch, imo, is ridiculous. If the merc can see an enemy npc, then they should trigger the overwatch then and there. Narrow cones, imo, are not that strong.

It's not about cones specifically. Cones may be ok. But their sizes needs to represent what soldier sees. E.g. when scoping, cone is narrow (I know, soldiers doesn't close an eye while scoping, but it's still a game and balance is needed somewhere).

And also.. difference from JA2 is that after an interruption you may decide what to do. While in overwatch, you just shoot.. and without aiming (or with unspecified aiming).

[KyleSimmons]

This is a big list but from what I saw it's pretty good, abilities are very CRPG-y and not JA, in my opinion, and I don't understand why Grit was included as a mechanic.

[Woody]

@anon474I agree with this list, I'm not saying I won't buy JA3 when it comes out or that the devs are in a position to change anything at this point, but I generally support the changes proposed here.

Strategy should imply strategy, a lot of design choices the dev team made with JA3 is more RPG and CRPG than strategy imo. Grit feels a bit too unrealistic for my liking.

[Stevenable]

My goodness the comments on this forum are bizarre sometimes. Anyway...

1. Movement was often underwhelming in JA2 so Iam glad they are change this up.

2. Thats what most perks ultimately are.

4. They have repeatedly stated why they wont show CTH and I agree its for the better. Apparently some people cant wait to play a game where they sit in one corner of the map and wait several turns for the 95% headshots to happen. zzzZZZzzz

5. Yeah and JA2 also allowed for crafting of attachments which made finding Items feel nice.

6. The fuck are you talking about?

7. You can bet there will be either mods and/or customization of mercs later on.

 

[IceKing]

1 hour ago, Stevenable said:

My goodness the comments on this forum are bizarre sometimes. Anyway...

1. Movement was often underwhelming in JA2 so Iam glad they are change this up.

2. Thats what most perks ultimately are.

4. They have repeatedly stated why they wont show CTH and I agree its for the better. Apparently some people cant wait to play a game where they sit in one corner of the map and wait several turns for the 95% headshots to happen. zzzZZZzzz

5. Yeah and JA2 also allowed for crafting of attachments which made finding Items feel nice.

6. The fuck are you talking about?

7. You can bet there will be either mods and/or customization of mercs later on.

 

I'm not sure what you mean about bizzare comments, are you referring to comments somewhere else?

Only weird comments I saw was on dev diary, there were a few people going back and forth.

1 Disagree

2 I don't know all the perks but the ones I saw weren't about individuals stats being boosted.

4 No wrong

5 No, the only attachments you could craft in JA2 vanilla was a barrel extender, and maybe 1 or 2 other things.

6 I don't know I don't care

7 Ok but if its not here now can the OP not talk about it?

You're the only weird comment I've seen here so far, pal.

[KyleSimmons]

7 minutes ago, IceKing said:

I'm not sure what you mean about bizzare comments, are you referring to comments somewhere else?

Only weird comments I saw was on dev diary, there were a few people going back and forth.

1 Disagree

2 I don't know all the perks but the ones I saw weren't about individuals stats being boosted.

4 No wrong

5 No, the only attachments you could craft in JA2 vanilla was a barrel extender, and maybe 1 or 2 other things.

6 I don't know I don't care

7 Ok but if its not here now can the OP not talk about it?

You're the only weird comment I've seen here so far, pal.

It's something weird.

The OP @anon474 already mentioned in another thread how he thinks one of the users here is a bot.

 

[IceKing]

12 hours ago, KyleSimmons said:

It's something weird.

The OP @anon474 already mentioned in another thread how he thinks one of the users here is a bot.

 

Dude go look at what happened

[DougS2K]

On 5/3/2023 at 9:19 AM, anon474 said:

1 Get rid of grit and freemove systems

2 Change perks around to mostly give +1 stat here or +5% aim chance there, -1 AP to reload cost or something, that type of idea. JA2 and JA2 1.13 have good perks to use as examples for this.

3 Add magazines and more hardcore vest items and LBE items

4 Add CtH %.

5 prohibit the crafting of ammo, and attachments, force both of those items to either be found or bought, which will make them far rarer and more interesting and important to find. JA2 had lots of these little "mini games" and "sub-games" to where, repair was its own "game" you had to discover, and keep on top of or your items would explode, and so was keeping up stocks of ammo.

6 modernize the setting to look more 80s and 90s, JA2 almost had american architecture and buildings despite being set in a improverished nation.

7 allow us to modify the characters looks at least somewhat so they don't look like they're wearing civilian clothes all the time, it's a bit weird.

8 I think the additions of various interactable objects like hackable laptops are perfectly fine and interesting additions, more of this is fine and doesn't need changing.

9 The articles written about how this game has "tone whiplash" and other stupidity (IGN and rock paper shotgun articles, both written by very let's say woke looking writers) are stupid and more than just stupid, harmful, because they basically make it to where the audience is poisoned and unable to enjoy JA3 naturally, as they were pre-conditoned by those articles' dumb analysis of the writing and setting, while without those articles people would've just bought the title and enjoyed it most likely and not given a second thought to any amount of "tonal whiplash". I think they have a point about some of the one-liners needing work, but this is such cherry picking in my opinion, that it's clearly meant to attract attention to something that would've been overlooked.

10 Make this strategy look more like a JA2-era strategy with a very zoomed out camera than a CRPG, it seems like JA3 will have a lot of CRPG sensibilities similar to Divinity 2, which is not bad, but maybe in some cases it can be bad, or not as serious or realistic. For example how CRPG emphasizes very localized battle encounters wtihin 10-20 feet of the start of the encounter, but in JA2 you'd almost alert the entire sector and have to fight through the entire sector, and it would be a very long drawn out and in a way very serious mission and a simulation of a real life assault on a large sector and map with enemies in it.

11 Add NVGs and similar type items, I think those were missing from beta versions

12 Add multiple levels of NVGs, and headphones, and similar.

1. Agreed. Not a fan of these either.

2. Agreed.

3. Hell yes please! Inventory and gear is way to basic right now.

4. Nah. Not needed and will change gameplay for the worse. They recently mentioned again that they are sticking with no chance to hit which is the right decision.

5. Agreed. I hate this craft ammo and weapons mods system. Much prefer if ammo had to be bought along with weapon mods that could be swapped between different weapons. This also ties into point 3 but I also hate this shared inventory. Each merc should have to carry their own ammo. Shared inventory is unrealistic and lazy IMO.

6. Meh. I think the setting looks pretty good as is.

7. Agreed. The more I see gameplay footage but more I wish you could at least see equipped gear on the characters. These guys and gals don't look like their dressed to take part in a war.

8. Disagree. I don't like this gameplay mechanic at all. Getting income from laptops and such? Doesn't make sense. Diamond mines should give more income so you don't have to rely on this method of income and where is the Tony equivalent to sell guns you pick up off dead enemies for extra income???

9. I don't pay much attention to articles written by big companies.

10. I personally think there should be more enemies in general. Never played Divinity 2 so can't comment on that.

11. Yes. In fact, fix the inventory system so it's not so basic. JA2 1.13 level of detail for inventory would be fantastic in JA3.

12. Yes again.

Edited May 5, 2023 by DougS2K

[Godzilla]

this looks like a good list i do somewhat agree that thespecial abilities feel a bit more xcom than ja

[Stevenable]

@IceKing I was indeed referring to comments made somewhere else. Sorry for the confusion.

Adding to 7. Yes OP is absolutely fine pointing this out and I agree with him/her.