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Moddability and mod support


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I haven't seen discussion on this so I'm wondering...what sort of modding capabilities are going to be available for this game? Steam Workshop day 1, eventually or not at all? Nexusmods? Can we change things via XML files and/or scripting? I'm wondering what will be, "open" for modding without having to recompile the code.

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2 minutes ago, Xeth Nyrrow said:

I haven't seen discussion on this so I'm wondering...what sort of modding capabilities are going to be available for this game? Steam Workshop day 1, eventually or not at all? Nexusmods? Can we change things via XML files and/or scripting? I'm wondering what will be, "open" for modding without having to recompile the code.

The developers said in one of the streams that modding shall be available, but that at the moment, they cannot provide additional details. We'll probably know that closer to the actual release date, if not after it.

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It's not 2002 unfortunately, modding isn't so simple especially with proprietary engines. Modding would require a tool like Bethesda releasing their mod tools to the userbase, and unless those tools or some kind of editor is released, modding will be difficult, and few modders will have the skills necessary to create mods.

Half Life and Warcraft 3 were so moddable because they were both very simple, and written on very easy to unpack or mod engine foundations.

Edited by anon474
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I think modding will be possible as long as the game engine allows it.

It is worth recalling that the source code for Jagged Alliance 2 was made available only a few years after its release.

Edited by Wigen
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The ease moddability is mostly determined upon how accessible they make things. When a game says it can be modded usually that means you can add/modify files that make changes. This could be like the values or formulas for things, gun stats, merc and enemy stats, etc.
 

9 minutes ago, anon474 said:

It's not 2002 unfortunately, modding isn't so simple especially with proprietary engines. Modding would require a tool like Bethesda releasing their mod tools to the userbase, and unless those tools or some kind of editor is released, modding will be difficult, and few modders will have the skills necessary to create mods.

Half Life and Warcraft 3 were so moddable because they were both very simple, and written on very easy to unpack or mod engine foundations.

It's also not 2011 where you need proprietary things like Skyrim's creation kit to make big mods. I have made mods for a game this year that only required me to, "code" with a text editor to make changes.

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4 minutes ago, Xeth Nyrrow said:

The ease moddability is mostly determined upon how accessible they make things. When a game says it can be modded usually that means you can add/modify files that make changes. This could be like the values or formulas for things, gun stats, merc and enemy stats, etc.
 

It's also not 2011 where you need proprietary things like Skyrim's creation kit to make big mods. I have made mods for a game this year that only required me to, "code" with a text editor to make changes.

"It's also not 2011 where you need proprietary things like Skyrim's creation kit to make big mods. I have made mods for a game this year that only required me to, "code" with a text editor to make changes." ???????

LIKE WHEN

Only time I remember doing something like that with JA2 because it has those XMP files you can modify settings in.

No idea what you are talking about, sorry. Things get more complex and more proprietary, not less.

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3 minutes ago, anon474 said:

"It's also not 2011 where you need proprietary things like Skyrim's creation kit to make big mods. I have made mods for a game this year that only required me to, "code" with a text editor to make changes." ???????

LIKE WHEN

Only time I remember doing something like that with JA2 because it has those XMP files you can modify settings in.

No idea what you are talking about, sorry. Things get more complex and more proprietary, not less.

This is why I say it depends on the developers making things accessible. If they say it's going to be moddable it usually means they are going to allow certain aspects to be adjusted with mods using some sort of open framwork. The extent to which depends on how easy it is with whatever engine they are using and how much they decide to allow changes too.

With a lot of engines these days you can modify parameters in files like XML for JSON to do different things. The knowledge and skills can carry over in to modding different games that use the same engines. I am speaking from personal experience having made mods for Skyrim and newer games as well as working with devs for various games either completed or still in development.

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7 minutes ago, Xeth Nyrrow said:

With a lot of engines these days you can modify parameters in files like XML for JSON to do different things.

Brother, excuse me for presuming, but I think you got your wires crossed and referenced JA2's mods which are XML/JSON based, and tried to use that in an argument about modern engines which are very proprietary, and the video games that they create are very hard to modify (to modify a game made in unity or unreal, afaik, you'd literally need project files for the game, and then, you'd need to modify the project files and create a whole new separate game entirely).

There are some exceptions, I installed some mods on some projects made in unity and unreal. But they were borderline cheats. I installed a mod for a small unity game, and it was literally a RAM modification software, that had to be launched simultaneously along with the game, and had to be running in the background. This kind of modding is not easy AT ALL. And because it's RAM modification its not even modding, this is like borderline cheat installs, this is how cheats work.

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15 minutes ago, anon474 said:

Brother, excuse me for presuming, but I think you got your wires crossed and referenced JA2's mods which are XML/JSON based, and tried to use that in an argument about modern engines which are very proprietary, and the video games that they create are very hard to modify (to modify a game made in unity or unreal, afaik, you'd literally need project files for the game, and then, you'd need to modify the project files and create a whole new separate game entirely).

There are some exceptions, I installed some mods on some projects made in unity and unreal. But they were borderline cheats. I installed a mod for a small unity game, and it was literally a RAM modification software, that had to be launched simultaneously along with the game, and had to be running in the background. This kind of modding is not easy AT ALL. And because it's RAM modification its not even modding, this is like borderline cheat installs, this is how cheats work.

I never modded JA2 so I didn't know they used XML/JSON, I was referring to games now. Assuming this is true, it's funny that all these years later games are using the same methods.

It's true that there are mods that change the code what you call, "cheats" or I often call, "hacks" but not all or even most of them. That isn't really, "modding" the game in a true sense but was often the only way to mod games in the past. Go look at Nexus mods or Steam workshop and you'll see most mods are just changing settings in files which can be altered with a text editor. Games today are made this way so that you can have multiple mods installed at once. If they required recompiling of the executable or dll file then you could only have that one, "mod"

I don't want to go further down the rabbit hole of only talking about these hack type mods since the devs have apparently stated they will allowing modding. This tells me there with be things easily accessible to change like the variables I mentioned before. Now I hope we get more info on what sorts of mechanics, art, and data values we can change plus what format these structures will be in.

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They've danced around the question, but they're probably going to wait to make a big announcement about it sometime in the future as part of their lead-up to release.  Pretty good chance of it happening though, you can just barely make out the words 'Mod Manager' on the upper computer screen behind Ian Currie at the 1:09 mark in their legacy trailer. 

I think they understand on some level that the game most people will compare JA3 against will be XCOM 2, which IIRC also had some pretty thorough workshop integration at-launch.  Makes sense that they'd want to match some of the features it had.

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I am hoping for something that is easy to mod as the Crusader Kings series, but we shall see. If it's just text editing and scripting I will dabble my toes in it, but for things beyond that it would take a dedicated tool (Bethesda Creation Kit style) for me to do anything.

 

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I am hoping the game will be as moddable as possible when it comes to calculations. If Haemimont don't change things like full-auto doing 50% damage and fog affecting damage, I'm thinking I am going to want to mod the game before I have even begun playing. I'll worry about realistic weapon stats at a later point.

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Don't get your hopes up too much kids, a lot of engines today are very proprietary as some people have already said, it's not going to be easy to modify things unless they're directly enabled by the developers...

Edited by KyleSimmons
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2 hours ago, KyleSimmons said:

Don't get your hopes up too much kids, a lot of engines today are very proprietary as some people have already said, it's not going to be easy to modify things unless they're directly enabled by the developers...

They have said modding will be enabled so that means some functions will be open to mod. Assuming it's like the Tropico game which are based on Unreal Engine 4 then it should be easy to mod.

This idea of proprietary engines is pretty dated, companies don't make their own engines much anymore due to cost and time but rather use major ones then modify them quite a bit. The core still is there with modding being part of those engine by design.

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15 minutes ago, Xeth Nyrrow said:

They have said modding will be enabled so that means some functions will be open to mod. Assuming it's like the Tropico game which are based on Unreal Engine 4 then it should be easy to mod.

This idea of proprietary engines is pretty dated, companies don't make their own engines much anymore due to cost and time but rather use major ones then modify them quite a bit. The core still is there with modding being part of those engine by design.

They have said in the livestream that they are using their own proprietary engine.

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I expect there will be some small mention of it, either in a future dev diary, or on one of their Twitch streams. I expect that would be one of the last things they will talk about prior to release. I any case, I may be completely wrong on that, we shall see. 🙂

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