Jagged Alliance 4 ????

[LoboNocturno]

I know its still too early to ask for but my question is if the project Jagged Alliance 3 will go very well (on PC & Console later on) or even further than expected will be there a additional part like JA Unfinished Business or even the project Jagged Alliance 4 after a couple of years ? (Please dont wait us again for 20 plus years ...!!!) But seriously are they thoughts already about something like that ? for a Jagged Alliance 3 sequel ?

 

In my opinion once Jagged Alliance 3 goes greater then i expected i would surely want to play a part 4 as a hardcore Jagged Alliance fan, next time with some more improvements and it could take maybe around 2010s or even 2020s, most mercs got older (with some lower stats in some areas but higher experience level) or even retired ones. This time maybe somewhere in a fictional Asian, European or in a South American country. Would be very cool indeed.

 

Will be playing Jagged Alliance 3 inch to inch anyway for multiple times still i archive all.

Edited December 16, 2022 by LoboNocturno
Added up

[Wigen]

I thought about that once too. It is very important how the game will be received by critics and players. What reviews will it get after the premiere. If Jagged Alliance 3 is successful, a fourth part of the game is possible in my opinion, but it's probably too early for that.

I wonder what the developers from Haemimont Games themselves think about this.

Or is it already in production? How knows. 

 

Edited December 17, 2022 by Wigen

[LoboNocturno]

Thats also my exact question whats the thoughts of Haemimont Games ?

Nothing should take you guys back from making a sequel ? Jagged Alliance is very great trust me (hope lots of newcomers will love the game) and if the outcome will be at least like a XCom 2 it would be good enough for a sequel imo, thats why am always saying Jagged Alliance 3 must come out also for Console, especially PlayStation and maybe XBox as well for more sales and to get more players. I left with PC gaming since nearly 2 decades but just for Jagged Alliance 3 sake i bought myself a 2000 $ laptop already. 😉 

 

So we cant do more than hoping & praying that Jagged Alliance 3 will be a major success, i mean the alpha footages seems not bad at all already, with lil more adjustments i can be seriously something great without a joke.

 

Hope the stable portraits will be changed to lively portraits and once a merc dies the skull should be coming thats a lil but important point imo since JA1.

 

Maybe not directly Jagged Alliance 4 but after Jagged Alliance 3 gets released we should not wait for more than 2 or 3 years for a sequel like Jagged Alliance Deadly Games or Jagged Alliance 2 Unfinished Business. Maybe it would e something very cool if you can finish Jagged Alliance 3 with a mystery in the end that would make us fans hungrier lol. Then after few years a side part like Jagged Alliance 3.5 idk. But we surely dont want to wait another 20 years for part 4 thats obvious, so hope after been JA3 gets successful we should not wait more than 5 years for Jagged Alliance 4.

[Fritz64]

On 12/17/2022 at 11:55 AM, LoboNocturno said:

So we cant do more than hoping & praying that Jagged Alliance 3 will be a major success, i mean the alpha footages seems not bad at all already, with lil more adjustments i can be seriously something great without a joke.

While I agree with this sentiment, I think long-time and die-hard fans of Jagged Alliance 2 will never be pleased with what is released.  There have been too many empty and broken promises in the past.  To me, this effort seems to be another repeat.  I hope I am wrong, but the very long period of silence prior to finally releasing a dev diary entry cast a long shadow.  Old fans who were interested moved on and younger gamers have no inherent interest in a remake of an ancient game.

That's a bleak assessment.  I'll retreat back to my dark corner. 

[Solaris_Wave]

8 hours ago, Fritz64 said:

While I agree with this sentiment, I think long-time and die-hard fans of Jagged Alliance 2 will never be pleased with what is released.

This unfortunately occurs with so many forms of media, whether it is games, movies, TV shows or whatever. You can wait a long time for something to appear, so much so that it inevitably fails to match the hype and expectations that will build around it. A good example of this would be Half-Life 3. If it ever did get made, no matter how good it would be, it would never be as good as what people would imagine it could be.

 

8 hours ago, Fritz64 said:

I hope I am wrong, but the very long period of silence prior to finally releasing a dev diary entry cast a long shadow.

I am personally not too worried about this. To me this is standard procedure when developing something. If you release information too early, you can generate hype too early and too soon, before anything is really in any way presentable. Also, during early stages a lot of it is on the drawing board and could be scrapped or altered. You don’t want to be making any official comments or news about it if at some point it gets altered. Otherwise, people would comment, “But you said…” It is better to wait until you really know what is going to be the main structure of the game before revealing anything. As an aside, I find myself no longer paying attention to ‘sneak previews’, ‘teasers’, trailers and so on, because all they are really doing is trying to get your attention for something that might be a year away (or more). Any details shown at that point aren’t much more than an impression of what the finished work will be and yet, you might get magazines and video reviews doing articles on “What we know so far…”, even though all they have to go on is one or two made up screenshots or a quick video. With the video reviews I have never understood how they can then make a video of them chatting about vague information and the length of their video is something like 30-60 minutes. I know it is for them to sound like the ‘go-to’ oracle of information but all they are really doing is building up the hype train too early and to unrealistic expectations. At best, you might get burnt out before the product is actually released. At worst, you might be angry and disappointed when you think about what it could have been.

Nowadays, I just patiently wait. Maybe because I am older and have been playing games for decades, or because, even if I have no interest in something and read/see the expectations of others who are excited for something, I see it time and time again where that something is a disappointment, whether it is a game, movie or TV show.

I am not saying that JA3 will be a failure and if I were you, I wouldn’t put the delay in the Developer Diary starting up to be a sign of indecision or panic. As I said, it is normal for a creating party to want to wait until they have something concrete to reveal.

 

8 hours ago, Fritz64 said:

Old fans who were interested moved on and younger gamers have no inherent interest in a remake of an ancient game.

This is something that does annoy me but usually when it comes to making a sequel in a movie franchise (although games franchises can be at risk of this too). You can have a film, for instance, that you are a fan of and being a fan, you are happy to see more of it, if done correctly. There has been a long gap since that last film was made. You find out that a new film in the series is being made and are looking forward to it. When it comes out, you couldn’t be more disappointed in it. Why? Because some silly sod thought it would be a great idea to change the characteristics of what made it so great in the first place, to match their ‘creative vision’ or to appeal to new audiences. It inevitably fails because the fans don’t like what has been changed, because it didn’t need any changing. Meanwhile, the new audience don’t care because their interests lie with other things. You then get the producers of that title thinking that it was a waste of money because the fans were ungrateful and that time has moved on, leaving it an as unviable product.

And yet, it happens every time! A new Alien or Predator movie changes the lore somehow, Star Wars gets taken in a new direction and changes a character, or a TV adaptation of Halo, Lord Of The Rings, Warhammer: 40K or something else throws the source material out the window. Nobody wins that outcome. The fans complain it isn’t anything like what made them fans in the first place, and new people don’t care either way because what they really like is something else. It is the fans, however that should make up the target audience because they are the ones that have knowledge about it in the first place. So why change it to appeal to newer audiences?

Edited December 21, 2022 by Solaris_Wave

[Hendrix]

For about a decade and a half I have been saying: The only thing that is constant is change.

I find it narrow minded to expect all things to just remain the same, and no I am not an advocate for change. Most often I am on the opposite side actually because I neither belive that things that do work needs to be change just for the sake of change. In the case of JA I have writen in another topic what I personally belive is a must to make this a "true" JA game, many if not all of those things are core features from JA2.

Handling fans of any sort of media/entertainment is always a hard thing because what matters to one fan does not automatically apply to all fans of a franchise. Some will love the change of new installments, others will hate it and the conflict about who is the true fan can start. 

It would not have mattered if we had gotten a JA3 back in the early 2000's from the original developers, things would still have changed and not everyone would like it. Who knows what would have happened to the franchise if they just continued to develop it. We might have gotten JA7 by now and it is instead a open world shooter in the style of Far Cry. And if Sirtech just had continued to release things for JA2 the fans would have left because it would just have been more of the same.

As for Haemimont and a JA4, I would guess that THQ/Embracer who owns the IP waits for the reception and (for them) even more importantly the sales of the game, before licensing Haemimont for a JA4.

There seams to be a bit of a resurgence of TB Tactical games, while most of them takes place in either a fantasy, sci-fi or post-apocalyptic setting so JA3 is atleast unique for the setting it takes place in.

[Solaris_Wave]

Some games have remained the same. There are turn-based war games that use the same engine over and over, even when it is many years out of date (and probably looked crude but serviceable when it first came out). I am not a graphics snob because I grew up with the 8-bit era (and before) but some of those games I find immediately off-putting due to their appearance.

I can’t remember which Jagged Alliance it was, either 1 or 2 but I remember the base game was highly praised. However, when the expansion came out, it was criticised by one of the PC games magazines I was reading for being more of the same. Sometimes you can’t win. There will be the purists and there will be the ones wanting something different. I am a bit of both. I don’t like lore being changed to make something more accessible or appealing to a younger audience. I don’t mind, if something like a game tries a new direction while keeping the lore. It is hard to pin down though and like I said, I like both. I like old X-COM but not new XCOM (although I have yet to try XCOM 2). Meanwhile, I remember enjoying but not being bowled over by the original Syndicate. There was then an FPS ‘reboot’ of the setting and I think every magazine criticised it for not being an isometric RTS. I very nearly didn’t buy it because of the hate bandwagon but did so and ended up enjoying it a lot, even if it had an abruptly ending storyline. I enjoyed the graphics, music, inventive guns and thought the world itself looked fantastic. I think it goes to show that at the end of the day, you can can always finish an argument by saying, “You either like something or you don’t.”

It is funny you mentioning that, had Jagged Alliance naturally progressed as a series, with each game being successful, it could very well have gone first-person and looked like the Far Cry series. It certainly worked for Grand Theft Auto. The first few games were a top-down view and when there was talk about GTA III going 3D, I wondered how they were going to pull it off with the draw distance and amount of cars and people. They successfully managed it and it has progressed to what it looks like today.

I can definitely visualise JA having an FPS spin-off, maybe with just one merc and it playing out kind of like the Far Cry series, as you mentioned, creating new fans and annoying others. I can even visualise something playing out like Fallout 3, where you can pause time, switch into phased actions and choose where to aim, while being able to jump between each merc in your unit. There wouldn’t be as many mercs to control and maybe scenery and terrain wouldn’t get damaged or destroyed, but other than that it would play the same and be just as large. I am not saying I would want to see that, I am just saying that I can visualise an alternate recent history with the series possibly going in that direction, had JA continued to be both successive and successful as other games series, right after JA2.

Edited December 24, 2022 by Solaris_Wave

[Operator_Max1993]

i mean, it's still way too early,  but yeah i really do hope Jagged Alliance 3 will be successful, it's been 1-2 entire decades of JA entries that fail as Jagged Alliance games and fail as RPG/TTS/MM games (by mm i meant MicroManagement),   i have changed my expectations a bit, i'm a mix of both old and new so if JA3

and i do like the idea of a JA4 set in the 2010s or 2020s,  we could see alot of cool stuff like 300 Blackout rifles, panoramic quad NVGs, MP7s, similar to the game Ground Branch (which also has a bit of old and new gear from old fashioned AKs to brand new and shiny MK18s),  along with having new and old mercs to play together along side

[Solaris_Wave]

2 hours ago, Operator_Max1993 said:

i mean, it's still way too early,  but yeah i really do hope Jagged Alliance 3 will be successful, it's been 1-2 entire decades of JA entries that fail as Jagged Alliance games and fail as RPG/TTS/MM games (by mm i meant MicroManagement),   i have changed my expectations a bit, i'm a mix of both old and new so if JA3

and i do like the idea of a JA4 set in the 2010s or 2020s,  we could see alot of cool stuff like 300 Blackout rifles, panoramic quad NVGs, MP7s, similar to the game Ground Branch (which also has a bit of old and new gear from old fashioned AKs to brand new and shiny MK18s),  along with having new and old mercs to play together along side

It could be interesting to see today’s current timeline. Technology-wise, most of the tech that is around today is a refinement of what was around before 2001, when JA3 is set. The phasing out of SMGs in favour of compact carbines, the refinement or creation of new calibres to work with shorter barrels, more common use of rail interfaces and lots of customisation for handguns and rifles. The only thing is, I don’t know how much difference you would see in a game, from a gameplay perspective, even if it focuses on realism as much as possible. Twenty years on won’t produce results that much differently. If there is body armour that is penetrated by the newer calibres, then it simply means finding better armour in the game. The use of foregrips, optics and other add-ons or modifications for your gun is either to make it more comfortable for you to use and shoot, or is a refinement of existing tech that was making waves in the late ‘90s.

 

As an alternative, how about going back in time to the ‘50s, ‘60s or early ‘70s? Say, the Middle East during that time or Africa again? This would be when post-WWII gear would be common but being superseded by battle rifles like the FN FAL, H&K G3, M14 and SKS. Assault rifles were not as common at this point so 5.56mm isn’t widespread. SMGs and shotguns are very much in favour and optics are basic and heavy. Rail Interface Systems aren’t a thing except for bespoke clamped-on sights. Anything else gets taped to the gun. It would all be a real back-to-basics setting but still advanced on significantly from WWII.

If that doesn’t appeal, how about setting it in the 1980s with wars against drug cartels? Set it in Central or South America?

[LoboNocturno]

4 hours ago, Solaris_Wave said:

As an alternative, how about going back in time to the ‘50s, ‘60s or early ‘70s? Say, the Middle East during that time or Africa again? This would be when post-WWII gear would be common but being superseded by battle rifles like the FN FAL, H&K G3, M14 and SKS. Assault rifles were not as common at this point so 5.56mm isn’t widespread. SMGs and shotguns are very much in favour and optics are basic and heavy. Rail Interface Systems aren’t a thing except for bespoke clamped-on sights. Anything else gets taped to the gun. It would all be a real back-to-basics setting but still advanced on significantly from WWII.

If that doesn’t appeal, how about setting it in the 1980s with wars against drug cartels? Set it in Central or South America?

 

50s, 60s come on that would totally spoil Jagged Alliance`s culture, like a Commandos replica. I most definitely want to see Jagged Alliance 4 at least around 2010 or even further with the SCAR with newer MERCS and some of our old ones as well.

 

Fighting a cartel would be epic indeed, but not in 80s against Pablo & Cali Cartel like guys lol, instead modern cartels the ones like in Mexico now with heavy calibred guns, who has well trained elite forces and even armored vehicles etc.....

 

Or somewhere different this time like in Asia in a country like Myanmar against a ruthless war lord.

[Hendrix]

Thinking about it it makes sense to me that JA3 takes place shortly after JA2, if they had moved it forward to 2010 or so many of the mercs of JA2 would have gotten old or changed or even died due to a decade passing between the game, forcing Haemimont to write alot of story in between.

If JA3 is successful and we get a proper expansion or two the timeline could be brought forward to maybe 2006-ish. Then a JA4 could take place around 2010 without a great gap in timeline to fill out story wise.

I personally would not mind to se a spinn of taking place in the 70's or 80's, I love the clunkyness of the top tier gear from the era.

[Image Miroir]

Maybe it'd be more interesting to have sequels rather than a JA4. I mean something a bit like we have in Diablo. It will be expanding the maps, adding to the story, adding mercs, weapons and also more customizations for created characters.

This way the development team will be capitalizing on the job done, fixing even more bugs and providing a longer gaming time.

[Lunokhod]

On 12/17/2022 at 2:20 AM, LoboNocturno said:

if the project Jagged Alliance 3 will go very well (on PC & Console later on)

It wont.

On 12/17/2022 at 2:20 AM, LoboNocturno said:

Will be playing Jagged Alliance 3 inch to inch anyway for multiple times still i archive all.

Bro u already think about JA4, cos u know that JA3 will be sucks as hell.

On 12/22/2022 at 12:37 PM, Hendrix said:

As for Haemimont and a JA4, I would guess that THQ/Embracer who owns the IP waits for the reception and (for them) even more importantly the sales of the game, before licensing Haemimont for a JA4.

No! No more "Haemimont Games". No. This guys better go to work at Bulgarian McDonalds. 😐

On 12/31/2022 at 1:18 PM, Hendrix said:

I personally would not mind to se a spinn of taking place in the 70's or 80's, I love the clunkyness of the top tier gear from the era.

I have some conception of JA title in my head, i will show u guys soon. I think about real time or a bit in the future. Something like Africa 2025-2035.

2 hours ago, Image Miroir said:

This way the development team will be capitalizing on the job done, fixing even more bugs and providing a longer gaming time.

They did very bad job and they dont deserve money. I really dont understand what they did all this 4 years.

[Solaris_Wave]

@Lunokhod, what would your ideal Jagged Alliance game be? Just out of curiosity. How would it look and how would it play? What would you want to see and definitely not want to see? How about a particular developer?

[Lunokhod]

14 minutes ago, Solaris_Wave said:

what would your ideal Jagged Alliance game be?

I will show u soon. I will create new thread with pictures.

[Godzilla]

3 hours ago, Solaris_Wave said:

@Lunokhod, what would your ideal Jagged Alliance game be? Just out of curiosity. How would it look and how would it play? What would you want to see and definitely not want to see? How about a particular developer?

JA2 1.13 with better graphics balancing and level design

dont fix what aint broken

getting the feeling that the devs tried to reinvent the wheel a bit too hard with JA3. new ideas are great, if they actually work.

[Hendrix]

Personally I would have been more than fine if they had just modified Xenonauts 2 into a new JA game.

[Godzilla]

xenonauts lacks a lot of things but not the correct approach to strategy

[Hendrix]

@Godzilla sure, but just think what they could do with a larger team and budget.