Making a Mercenary

[Solaris_Wave]

Having them too colourful just makes the whole thing feel like a game that isn't too serious as opposed to a game that is based on possible real life situations. Sure, Jagged Alliance has plenty of humour but the games are still meant to be serious strategies.

To me, having characters bright, colourful and loud goes more in hand with comic book characters or multiplayer 'hero' FPS and online arenas. Characters that bunny-hop and wall-run, fire goo guns, have temporary force fields they can lay down and do the 'floss' or 'dab' moves after a kill.

Maybe they are characterised that way so they appeal to the masses whereas more serious looking characters gives the impression that the game is no nonsense and more like a simulator. Bright and colourful means 'Fun' instead of "…and now onto Tutorial number 14."

In years past, those 'serious' games would have a huge manual and be in a huge box. Not necessarily simulators but still covering serious topics. The funny thing was, it was those games that appealed to me more. I was seeing other young people go on about Sonic The Hedgehog, Mario and Street Fighter II, while I was playing games that were trying to teach me how to avoid Surface-To-Air missiles over Libya.

Edited April 2, 2023 by Solaris_Wave

[WILDFIRE]

@Haemimont_Boian: Dont get me wrong I really love your work so far, I just want to point out that dark humor is definitely needed and a big part of JA but in the right dose. If too many characters are too quirky or cartoony that can drift in a goofy direction were it will be no adult story anymore.

 

Sure the characters/mercs must be fun and should also have their funny characteristics but in the end you as a player should take them serious for the most part. JA2 had the perfect balance between serious and humorous. So please keep the JA2 formula that is perfect in character design.

[SWi74]

22 hours ago, WILDFIRE said:

Rainbow Six Siege for example had mostly realistic operators that were grounded in reality in the first years but later they added colorful characters with crazy abilities that did not fit in the world anymore.

Agree. It was disappointing when it shifted from "yeah, this could actually happen" to "this is near future fiction" and finally "all backgrounds and personalities have their place in an elite counter-terrorist sports tournament with forced lore about family drama".

The very first year was amazing both as very intense gameplay and more serious tone aesthetics. Back then I thought their kind of roster could make an awesome JA style spin off game.

Then it wanted to be more like Overwatch... I could guess some of their reasons, but I don't think they apply to the JA universe.

I think characters should be on the serious side, especially when in combat. Maybe some will have a more casual attitude when relaxed, but that should be because they haven't had much experience with... war... veterans should behave professionally and that doesn't have to subtract from their personality and flavor.

The ironman mode is one of the best ways to play. Real consequences for the player AND for the character. This should be reflected in their voices and behavior however colorful they might have been.

[LoboNocturno]

@WILDFIREThinking %100 like you on this 1, but like i just posted in the Merc Changes topic even the enemy types arent looking serious to be honest so from this point of view its no secret anymore it will be somehow cartoony (of course if they doesnt make any changes on the looks).

JA2 gave us more or less a real world feeling, we never really see the characters outfits though (only can imagine and speculate how they were really looking) cause in the minifigs was just a tank top with trouser and the female model had a t-shirt on.

I liked somehow how they look in Rage especially cause the gear was showing.

 

But i know very well what you mean, i will throw in some different mercenary models soon as LEGO minifigs on my Instagram Page, just opened the account, it called "Jagged Alliance Bricks", there is only few posts so far but feel free to follow my page there, lots of great content will be coming soon, mainly battlefield outfits & weapons, mercenaries and surely also some of the Jagged Alliance characters will be there.

[Solaris_Wave]

As you say, the outfits in JA2 were basic tank top and combat trousers, which were generic enough to work and yet allow enough flexibility to wonder what they actually were, in fact wearing.

As for R6: Siege, it just looks like another character-based multiplayer game that wants to be in the e-sports scene.

[WILDFIRE]

@SWi74: I am also a Rainbow Six veteran since over 20 years so I like the grounded realistic combat and outfits from the beginning of this series.

 

The first years of Siege were really great. Intense battles and mostly realistic operators. As you said some soldiers would fit in the JA universe.

 

But later on they created colorful over the top characters which do not fit in a realistic setting. The balance must be right and the same applies to JA3.

[SWi74]

22 minutes ago, WILDFIRE said:

@SWi74: I am also a Rainbow Six veteran since over 20 years so I like the grounded realistic combat and outfits from the beginning of this series.

 

The first years of Siege were really great. Intense battles and mostly realistic operators. As you said some soldiers would fit in the JA universe.

 

But later on they created colorful over the top characters which do not fit in a realistic setting. The balance must be right and the same applies to JA3.

It had a lot to do with the dev exhausting viable ideas AND player behavior. Dev announced pretty early on that they are planning 100 operators within a 10-year-long roadmap. You can only keep it realistic with the characters for so long, before adding more "distinct" faces and outfits. The other factor that shifted direction are the players. From slow, clever, flanking, avoiding direct firefights to rush and die, twitch crouching, spawn peaking, high-risk play styles... and if dead... alt+tab to watch youtube... in a game where killed players can support their team with surveillance...

It's sad, but in a way the player base deserves the game they end up with.

[SWi74]

6 minutes ago, SWi74 said:

10-year-long roadmap

It's Longevity versus Staying True to the initial vision. That risk applies to JA, too. Especially with post launch content... 4 yearly season passes and bunches of DLC... the Firaxis way with both Civ and Xcom. I hate it, but it sells.

[WILDFIRE]

@SWi74: Yes they should have kept it simple. A small realistic and grounded selection of soldiers. Maybe one new operator per season from the beginning. I say do not oversaturate the game. Every soldier should fit in the gameplay balance and the world.

 

I like it slow, clever and tactical so the first years were really great and I also liked the sweating in ranked mode. But now it is mostly a game for kids with all kind of colorful skins, outfits, abilities and so on.

 

I hope JA3 will be a game for adults who like it realistic, serious and tactical but can also appreciate the nice dark humor from the 80s/90s.

[Haemimont_Boian]

On 4/2/2023 at 7:24 PM, WILDFIRE said:

@Haemimont_Boian: I still hope that most mercs will have a serious background and look?! Sure some quirky characters are ok but overall you as a player must take the mercs serious.

 

Its a gritty, brutal and tough world JA takes place. The mercs are soldiers who risk their lives for money and they are on a serious mission. So I hope you find the right balance.

I agree with you 100%. It is a delicate balancing act and we want the players to take the mercs seriously. Overall, we aim for the same balance as in JA2 - some "very quirky" characters but they are the exception, rather than the rule. 

[WILDFIRE]

9 hours ago, Haemimont_Boian said:

I agree with you 100%. It is a delicate balancing act and we want the players to take the mercs seriously. Overall, we aim for the same balance as in JA2 - some "very quirky" characters but they are the exception, rather than the rule. 

Great to hear that. I know it is not easy to create new characters and to find the right balance between serious and quirky mercs but in the end it is important that you as a player can take the world serious but also have a laugh here and there that lightens the mood. I think the Expendables movies with Stallone have the same vibe that suits Jagged Alliance very well. Overall the mission is serious and brutal but the jokes should not be neglected.

[Grim]

A friend pointed me at D-ID, here is a very quick and dirty test I did with Fauda's picture here, a random line out of my head, and taking a random feminine voice whispering, just to test and show you :
https://studio.d-id.com/share?id=60c04ab17f8bd1655dba3a3145379f2a&utm_source=copy

[Flowable]

that's cool, what do you think of the result Grim

[Grim]

It is just a very quick test made in a minute, and yet it looks and sounds very good.
With D-ID, you can input a portrait, text to be voiced, or even an existing audio. It will make a video of it, as you can see in my example. It isn't even heavy (approx. 500ko).

I don't know if it can be done for JA3, either by the dev team or by modding, but this kind of technology offers great possibilities for the future of gaming. I got interested in this firt for tabletop RPG. With tools like midjourney or this you can put images, voices, and more (thing ai dungeon or chatgpt to find ideas) on your imagined world. This is impressive.
 

[5Cents]

I like the new mercs. In my opinion they represent the idea of JA very well.

Jagged Alliance mercs and nps were always cartoonished, archetyped and overdrawn. Thats the reason so many loved them, i suppose. The new might look different from the original ones, but also very well, in my opinion. I wondered about some choices, but im okay with them.

You have to keep in mind..devs decided against interchangebable looking warsim soldiers, instead watched 80/90 actionmovies & expandables for development of JA3..so its no wonder, if mercs are cartoonished. I like this fact and i think Sir Tech had the same ideas in mind, at that time..and also they were not so overly accurate, concerning authenticity of merc-descriptions, as some assume, i think.

Maybe haemimont devs were also inspired by movie Tropic Thunder.. 😆 For example, that guy with perhaps swedish ancestors, named Len Anderson, is looking a like hes an afroamerican now.
With that permanent grin, Scully is looking like a stoned lunatic maybe, Nails is looking way younger & like a hipster.

Some of new old mercs looking better than before..for my taste. Raider and Shadow f.e.

Anyway i like the new artwork very much, resembles action-heros much more and is more lively, than some sort of military uniform apperance, some players might have wished.

And that the sizes of their heads are not the same, is completly logical for me,..while berets moves out of frame gaves the artwork more contrast, in my opinion.

[Solaris_Wave]

Some mercs definitely look better than others in JA3. I think Raider now looks like a cross between Stan Lee and Reed Richards from The Fantastic Four. Shadow's new hairstyle doesn't look very military. He looks like he just stepped out of the salon.

My main criticism though was seeing the amount of tilted heads in all of the portraits.

I have said all of this before though, with more or less the exact same words.

Edited July 7, 2023 by Solaris_Wave

[5Cents]

For me Shadow was always a bit like CPT Willard😁

Old Shadow hair appears at least long as new one. Also he is no active military.

Besides that no real pro would go out in fields, wearing no headgear..

Funfact: Back in the 90s specops often got critized by generals being undisciplined because of their hairstyles.
In bloody Afghanistan was the same with all the taliban-beards. So they gave out new policys, when generality had enough of trend.

 

[5Cents]

Btw military-backrounds in JA are good example to see, why Jagged 1&2 characterbio are not so consistent and a bit more random you might guess.
For example ranks.. Some ex soldiers had ranks (even when Corporal is a rather low one, specially for an Green Berett), some hadnt (non americans & also shadow).

[Reedwhistle]

I was hoping this was going to be about what goes into making our own merc through IMP but this is interesting too. I enjoy knowing that some serious thought went in to the look and feel of the mercs. Afterall, if this game is nearly as good as JA2 we'll be looking at these guys for another 20 years

[5Cents]

22 minutes ago, Reedwhistle said:

I was hoping this was going to be about what goes into making our own merc through IMP but this is interesting too. I enjoy knowing that some serious thought went in to the look and feel of the mercs. Afterall, if this game is nearly as good as JA2 we'll be looking at these guys for another 20 years

Raeven just wrote something to this..