Bad quest design [spoilers]

[sandman25dcsss]

I am in H8. There are many nameless village inhabitants. I click on one of them to see what she says, nothing interesting, click her again, new phrase, nothing interesting, click her again, she says something which triggers a new quest. I move to another nameless village inhabitant to see what he says, nothing interesting, click him again, new phrase, nothing interesting, click him again, he says something which triggers  yet another new quest. Why??? There are about 30 village inhabitants, am I supposed to talk to each of them and click each of them at least 3 times??? I see 2 possible solutions:

1) give names to NPC who can give quests

2) if you insist on quests from nameless NPC, make the quests triggered by each sentence starting from first one so when I click once I get a new quest, I click again and get another quest, I click again and if no new quest is given I don't need to click again to make sure there will no be more quests.

 

Edit. I talked to 3rd village inhabitant, triggered yet another new quest on 3rd phrase 😞

Edited July 18, 2023 by sandman25dcsss

[Jaywalker]

A: This is exactly how you would learn of certain things in JA2 (talking to nameless people who might mention something useful).

B: Literally NONE of those quests requires you to talk to the nameless NPC's to learn of them, it's just one of many "clues" you can gather.

C. It's not bad design just because you don't understand or like it.

[MateKiddleton]

I actually like this, instead of following quest markers on NPC heads, you get random bits of info from rumours that pique your interest. Not all of them are quests, some are just hints for other quests.

[sandman25dcsss]

13 minutes ago, Jaywalker said:

A: This is exactly how you would learn of certain things in JA2 (talking to nameless people who might mention something useful).

B: Literally NONE of those quests requires you to talk to the nameless NPC's to learn of them, it's just one of many "clues" you can gather.

C. It's not bad design just because you don't understand or like it.

1) Are you sure? Because one of those quests is please find one thing I lost and bring it back to me

2) Does it mean I will not miss anything if I stop wasting several minutes talking to them? Note no matter which answer you choose, it is still bad design. Devs really should not assume players are familiar with JA1-2.

Edited July 18, 2023 by sandman25dcsss

[sandman25dcsss]

2 minutes ago, MateKiddleton said:

I actually like this, instead of following quest markers on NPC heads, you get random bits of info from rumours that pique your interest. Not all of them are quests, some are just hints for other quests.

My issue is that when I talk to several nameless people, they say different things. 5th person started saying the same things as 4th person. Does it mean I will not need to talk to other 25 people on the map? How can I be sure about that provided this weird design?

[MateKiddleton]

Most are not quests, just extra info. I click on NPCs if I need it. There are plenty to click on as you move through towns so you can carry on exploring while getting more intel

[Jaywalker]

16 minutes ago, sandman25dcsss said:

2) Does it mean I will not miss anything if I stop wasting several minutes talking to them? Note no matter which answer you choose, it is still bad design. Devs really should not assume players are familiar with JA1-2.

You can automate the process of obtaining clues by performing the Scout Area operation, this will occupy the mercs for a few hours and may result in a mishap, but it also scans neighboring areas and provides Intel in addition to clues.

The only NPC's that want you to do things for them are the ones that have a name and a marker overhead in highlight mode.

[Melliores]

@sandman25dcsss

I think you are confusing the different types of NPCs. There are 4 types as far as I know:

Ambiance NPCs - the nameless villagers, miners, rebels, communists and the like. These mention from time to time useful rumours that serve to draw your attention to specifics sectors on the strategic map. However, they do not give you quest. The entry in your notebook is simply a clue/rumour that you may investigate. You can obtain such rumours from plot NPCs, hacking devices, scouting and getting intel or simply entering the sector and encountering the quest yourself.

Local story NPCs - these always have a name and a head icon, but do not have a dialog tree, nor a portrait.  They do give you a single quest. Usually this can be resolved in the same sector, as the Red Dragon tavern (Pantagruel) and the quarrel between Serge and Heinrich. Captain Pierrot in sector F5 is another fine example of this category. Once you resolve the quest, this type of NPCs have only flavour text and never give out rumours.

Quest NPCs - these always have a name, a head icon, a branching dialog tree and a portrait. They give you a quest and the reward is something noticeable - like opening the Vulture of Hope clinic in Pantagruel.

Plot NPCs - these have a name, a head icon, branching dialog tree, a portrait and several quests converge in them. They can both be quest givers and points of reference in other quests. Some of them can give you multiple quests - Chimurenga, Maman Liliane, the Shaman in the Refugee camp. Others have a big, multistage quest, usually related to recruiting them or giving you a special reward - Smiley, Bastien, Pierre and others. These are major characters in Grand Chien that you will hear rumours about long before you meet them from the ambiance NPCs.

The NPC and quest structure is really well done. You want to explore the world and talk even to simple farmers to see what is happening. Once you complete a big quests in the area (the Abandoned Mansion for example), the nameless NPCs will have a line or two about you being the Ghostbusters team and getting rid of the ghost there. 🙂

Yes, you will want to speak with multiple nameless NPCs in each populated sector, some might give you Intel, extra militia members or thank you, raising the morale of your squad. One even gave me extra ammo and a crowbar in the starting village of Ernie.

Edited July 18, 2023 by Melliores

[sandman25dcsss]

Ok, if nameless characters are that useful, I will disable voiceover, hopefully it will speed up the dialog.

I don't like this design, but I don't see a good way to fix it and still have everyone happy.

[Melliores]

The nameless NPCs do not really have a dialog though - they just give you a paragraph. You can click through several paragraphs on the same NPC in a matter of a single second if you are in a hurry. You can also you the Snype history log to check one or all of the previous paragraphs if you think you missed something important.

 

[sandman25dcsss]

24 minutes ago, Melliores said:

The nameless NPCs do not really have a dialog though - they just give you a paragraph. You can click through several paragraphs on the same NPC in a matter of a single second if you are in a hurry. You can also you the Snype history log to check one or all of the previous paragraphs if you think you missed something important.

 

It does not start saying next phrase until voice for previous one is over. I play non-English version, I don't care about voiceover and yet I am forced to wait.

[Uncle Nick]

14 hours ago, sandman25dcsss said:

...1) Are you sure? Because one of those quests is please find one thing I lost and bring it back to me...

Haha, this is where the game devs say: Gotcha! ROFL laughing at their evil plans. Thi is what makes JA so re-playable. Now you know, next game you start from scratch, you will keep and hoard many random things that you find.

[sandman25dcsss]

2 hours ago, Uncle Nick said:

Haha, this is where the game devs say: Gotcha! ROFL laughing at their evil plans. Thi is what makes JA so re-playable. Now you know, next game you start from scratch, you will keep and hoard many random things that you find.

Yes, and will hate myself for wasting so much time on juggling personal inventory, squad inventory, sector inventory... There are already mods which help with that, not everyone likes the juggling.