Solaris_Wave Posted April 29, 2023 Share Posted April 29, 2023 59 minutes ago, Hendrix said: As I said in another topic, I demand Haemimont having a Scandinavian accent in the game for the IMP, sounding just like the Swedish Chef from The Muppets show! They could go one further and actually have the Swedish chef in JA3. Complete with chef's hat that bounces around. He is an expert with a meat cleaver and likes to throw chickens through basketball hoops. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Image Miroir Posted April 29, 2023 Share Posted April 29, 2023 @Solaris_Wave I'm not giving an ultimatum, I'm just explaining my purchase motivations. Maybe I'm part of an ultra-minority, and I accept it. If they sell a million copy without it, I'll praise them and be happy for the team. But I won't buy it. It's what happened for me with the previous Jagged Alliance iteration. If I can't personalize it, I don't play it. This extend to most video games I play. And many video games I don't play are huge success. There's a RPG part inside JA, and it's why I like it. On the other hand I don't care much for the price 30€, 50€, 70€, 100€. I don't care much. If JA3 is as re-playable as JA2. If I can personalize it, I don't care the price. Am I rich? No, I'm just waiting for the game for the past 20 years, and I played it for at least 10 or 15 years. So, 100€ for countless hours of gaming over the decade or more, seems to me acceptable. Again, I don't expect to be a reference, I just explain my purchase motivations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaris_Wave Posted April 29, 2023 Share Posted April 29, 2023 8 minutes ago, Image Miroir said: @Solaris_Wave I'm not giving an ultimatum, I'm just explaining my purchase motivations. Maybe I'm part of an ultra-minority, and I accept it. If they sell a million copy without it, I'll praise them and be happy for the team. But I won't buy it. It's what happened for me with the previous Jagged Alliance iteration. If I can't personalize it, I don't play it. This extend to most video games I play. And many video games I don't play are huge success. There's a RPG part inside JA, and it's why I like it. On the other hand I don't care much for the price 30€, 50€, 70€, 100€. I don't care much. If JA3 is as re-playable as JA2. If I can personalize it, I don't care the price. Am I rich? No, I'm just waiting for the game for the past 20 years, and I played it for at least 10 or 15 years. So, 100€ for countless hours of gaming over the decade or more, seems to me acceptable. Again, I don't expect to be a reference, I just explain my purchase motivations. I do understand where you are coming from. RPGs are always better when you can play your own character instead of a fixed one. You can put more emotional investment into it as the character has been partly created by you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongweibing Posted April 29, 2023 Share Posted April 29, 2023 18 minutes ago, Image Miroir said: A dozen voices is merely a day of work... For sure, between having ammo management and more voices, I'd choose ammo management! I'm afraid you're estimate is a bit off here. I certainly cannot claim that I know much about voicing characters in games, but from the little I know, it goes like this: 1) You write the text, and you should make each character sound unique 2) You look for the suitable voice actors, based on samples they record for you and their previous body of work - this seems like the most difficult stage, and it can take months 3) You record the text (you'd also need a studio for that), often more than once, to get small things like intonation, emphasis etc. just right 4) You edit the recordings and match them to the relevant events in the game. All in all, we can be talking about months of extra work and I can only guess how much that would cost. As an example, for some time I used to follow a project to voice JA1 in a different language - so we're talking about much less text than JA3 - it began in 2018 and is still ongoing, with most time and effort spent on finding the right voice actors (for reference, the price for getting a professional voice actor to voice a merc in JA1 - so just a few lines - ranged from 100 to 150 USD - and we're not talking about North America or Western Europe, where it would cost even more). Certainly, a proper company will be more efficient, but it is by no means a quick and easy process. One way or the other, it's up to the developers and producers to decide, and I sure wouldn't mind seeing more IMP and regular mercs. I do agree about preferring ammo management to additional voices 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chr_isso Posted April 29, 2023 Share Posted April 29, 2023 6 hours ago, Martin said: Yeah I for me IMP character was the main guy.. it was me roleplaying as the merc and that was so conecting to the game... It would be shame to not have that and the nationality? I guess just the flag would be enough.. without the dabing, quirks, and stuff.. as I said the flag is enough for the feeling of connection with the character and the story to be even bigger.. what else is roleplay than just pretending.. we humans are simple creatures.. we see flag and neuron activates haha XD and just choosing between male/female, nationality, few voices 3 is enough and couple of portraits is good. What about you.. do you have the same opinion? I am not gonna mind even slightest if Czech mercenary will have UK/US/other dabing... from me you wouldnt know if I am Czech when I speak English.. I have slight US/British accent. 😄 I think IMP is a must have and the flag is like free connection aspect for the players without any effort for the DEVS. 🙂 Im too german to be connected with my flag. We learned from mother milk that it's forbidden to be proud/connected to our nation. An to be honest: i met a lot of awesome Czech, polish, turkish or dutch people and a lot of fucked up Germans.. i rather call me european than german. So i dont need flags but i can understand poeple who love/like their country. So if they implement that: feel free 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elder III Posted April 29, 2023 Share Posted April 29, 2023 I do always like more options for character creation in any game, but I am content either way. . None of us got to choose what nation we were born into in real life, so I figure our primary identity is that we are all Human first and foremost. 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunokhod Posted April 29, 2023 Share Posted April 29, 2023 14 minutes ago, chr_isso said: Im too german to be connected with my flag. We learned from mother milk that it's forbidden to be proud/connected to our nation. Oh... Jesus... Please... But its fun. 😄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Image Miroir Posted April 29, 2023 Share Posted April 29, 2023 @Hongweibing I'm not into gaming industry but into e-learning industry. I'm in western Europe, and for sure I can find some native english speaking doing all of it for 150€-300€. You take some student who have a singing or theatre background and you'll get what you want, quickly. Concerning studio, you don't need one for barely a dozen sentences. Project managers should remind that: "Improvise, adapt, overcome!" 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Image Miroir Posted April 29, 2023 Share Posted April 29, 2023 @chr_isso it seems to me the last time Germans were so proud, it ended with them feeling too much at home in other's countries... Vae victis! The only way to be sure you'll win a war is not to start one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuurminator Posted April 30, 2023 Share Posted April 30, 2023 22 hours ago, Image Miroir said: @Hongweibing I agree about the presence (so far) of IMP, and I wanted people against to understand it's important for some players (how representative they are, I don't know). Considering the number of portraits, I proceeded like this: 3 ethnicities (asian, black, white) 3 genders (male, female, non-binary) 3 portraits for each (even if 4 would be better) As you can see we're easily at 25. Why that many portraits? To cover a maximum of player interests and versatility. Considering voices, if you provide 3 or 4 for each gender we're around 10 voices. A much simpler option would be for players to be able to add a voice or portrait by themselves. I wouldn't count on non-binary representation; it's not popular in a lot of the markets where tactical combat games are popular. We probably won't get a huge selection of voices, either, as those are a lot more resource intensive than I suspect you think they are. I hope we get a wide range of models (repurposing rejected NPC designs for IMP could help), but I won't count on it. Of course, since every mercenary seems to get a unique model instead of recolours, I suppose it's not necessary on any technical level for the player to pick their IMP's gender at all. Just pick their model and voice from a list, mix and match as you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Image Miroir Posted April 30, 2023 Share Posted April 30, 2023 Even in chess you have genders... Again, as I said, without enough personnalisation they'll loose players like me. Even in JA1 you had differences between men and women, we can't be back to Atari 2600! Concerning voice, I'm sure no one would see the difference of a voice recorded with a mobile phone in a good environment. If they can't adapt, if they're not creative, they'll die. It reminds me wargamer a long time ago who told me: "German troops were better and better equipped, they wouldn't be defeated". I just answered him, reality had a different point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anon474 Posted April 30, 2023 Share Posted April 30, 2023 On 4/28/2023 at 4:49 AM, TopGunther said: …yeah, right. Nationality should also give different stat boost, depending on time of day and night. That will be EPIC, BRO! You make fun of it but I don't see anything inherently wrong with unique things about a merc or character giving them unique bonuses Maybe french people get extra bonus stats from croissant food item who knows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaris_Wave Posted April 30, 2023 Share Posted April 30, 2023 26 minutes ago, Image Miroir said: Again, as I said, without enough personnalisation they'll loose players like me. Even in JA1 you had differences between men and women, we can't be back to Atari 2600! Hey, don't you go knocking the old Atari 2600! 😄😛 I remember the game Superman on that console and to ensure that when Superman was disguised as Clark Kent, the game thought it would be a great idea to give him a cowboy hat and denim outfit, just so you knew he was a human male. The cowboy hat showed that the game developers had watched the movies closely for authenticity. 23 minutes ago, anon474 said: You make fun of it but I don't see anything inherently wrong with unique things about a merc or character giving them unique bonuses Maybe french people get extra bonus stats from croissant food item who knows I think that British mercs should have the natural ability to duel-wield. They can have a pistol in one hand and a cup of tea in the other. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoboNocturno Posted May 18, 2023 Share Posted May 18, 2023 On 4/29/2023 at 8:45 PM, Image Miroir said: @Hongweibing I agree about the presence (so far) of IMP, and I wanted people against to understand it's important for some players (how representative they are, I don't know). Considering the number of portraits, I proceeded like this: 3 ethnicities (asian, black, white) 3 genders (male, female, non-binary) 3 portraits for each (even if 4 would be better) As you can see we're easily at 25. Why that many portraits? To cover a maximum of player interests and versatility. Considering voices, if you provide 3 or 4 for each gender we're around 10 voices. A much simpler option would be for players to be able to add a voice or portrait by themselves. I totally agree with that, there should be at least 10x2 (each for male & female) models and also the portrait seems currently a lil bigger then our A.I.M. mercs which should be fixed. Hopefully there will be several voice options as well in different accents. To the main question of the topic, of course there should be also country (flag) selection, i mean to add in there a bunch of country flags should not eat lots of MBs. Hell yea would be very proud to create a Ecuadorian 🇪🇨 IMP. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Image Miroir Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 Flexibility, personalization potential, makes sales. But it's something you have to plan at the beginning of the game, not at the end. The possibility now is to buff up the game with cheap DLC that would become kind of a subscription. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xeth Nyrrow Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 3 hours ago, Image Miroir said: Flexibility, personalization potential, makes sales. But it's something you have to plan at the beginning of the game, not at the end. The possibility now is to buff up the game with cheap DLC that would become kind of a subscription. Aside from the subscription part I agree. Xcom 2 did it right in this department where you could be completely uniform or a rag tag group of weirdos. The devs already said that merc customization would be a very difficult task for them so I don't see this happening even later. This means they didn't think to add the capability when developing (modifying) their engine which is what make it difficult to add after the fact. What's so incredibly ironic here is that there are quite a few who wanted uniform soldiers AND gear customization. So the miss on customization is felt by those people that as well. It still might be possible to eventually replace the in game models but that requires decent art skills. Even doing that, you'd shave to pick a look you want and keep it without it being adjustable in game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kordanor Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 14 minutes ago, Xeth Nyrrow said: Aside from the subscription part I agree. Xcom 2 did it right in this department where you could be completely uniform or a rag tag group of weirdos. The devs already said that merc customization would be a very difficult task for them so I don't see this happening even later. This means they didn't think to add the capability when developing (modifying) their engine which is what make it difficult to add after the fact. What's so incredibly ironic here is that there are quite a few who wanted uniform soldiers AND gear customization. So the miss on customization is felt by those people that as well. It still might be possible to eventually replace the in game models but that requires decent art skills. Even doing that, you'd shave to pick a look you want and keep it without it being adjustable in game. You could possibly make a mod which does it like: Your merc has standardoutfit: Merc uses Hitman Model Your merc uses combat outfit: Merc uses MD Model Your merc dresses as Rambo: Merc uses Blood Model Your merc uses camo gear: Merc uses Shadow Model Hair/Skin color shouldnt be a problem to change with mods either. Sure, then in the end everyone would run around with the Shadow model. But that would be the case regardless with visible outfits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaris_Wave Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 In JA2, when everybody was wearing camo, they all pretty much looked like Shadow. It wasn't hard to tell who was who though, due to the names being visible. I will be interested to see what mods people can come up with for new mercs, if any. I know Haemimont said that they didn't want everybody looking the same, which could be the case if everyone had BDUs and load-bearing equipment, especially as each merc has to have a unique, distinct and larger than life appearance to help define their personality. I reckon though, that having new mercs dressed all like professional soldiers will be exactly the kind of thing people want to create, unless they deliberately want action movie heroes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunokhod Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 9 minutes ago, Solaris_Wave said: especially as each merc has to have a unique, distinct and larger than life appearance to help define their personality Clothes define personality? Where? In middle school? 11 minutes ago, Solaris_Wave said: I reckon though, that having new mercs dressed all like professional soldiers will be exactly the kind of thing people want to create 100%. Military game with 0 mercs/enemies in helmets... what a joke. But we got guy in cowboy hat. ^__^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xeth Nyrrow Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 41 minutes ago, Kordanor said: You could possibly make a mod which does it like: Your merc has standardoutfit: Merc uses Hitman Model Your merc uses combat outfit: Merc uses MD Model Your merc dresses as Rambo: Merc uses Blood Model Your merc uses camo gear: Merc uses Shadow Model Hair/Skin color shouldnt be a problem to change with mods either. Sure, then in the end everyone would run around with the Shadow model. But that would be the case regardless with visible outfits. That's an interesting idea though they'd definitely have to code the game to allow switching of models which I doubt will happen. The issue as I understand it is that showing gear on top of the models is a lot of extra work because each merc has a unique model. Ironically if they made the models more generic with say 3 body types per sex (like JA2 did) that it would be much less work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Image Miroir Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 1 hour ago, Xeth Nyrrow said: Aside from the subscription part I agree. I didn't mean actual subscription, I rather meant that if you like the DLC, you'll buy each new one and it'll be "kind of a subscription". 1 hour ago, Lunokhod said: Clothes define personality? Where? In middle school? Even if you know nothing, you have no obligation to provide a proof of your ignorance. 1 hour ago, Lunokhod said: 100%. Military game with 0 mercs/enemies in helmets... what a joke. But we got guy in cowboy hat. ^__^ Recently Russian soldiers had to purchase part of their equipment to go to war. So, we can assume mercs or enemies have no complete outfit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEXAHUK Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 31 minutes ago, Image Miroir said: Recently Russian soldiers had to purchase part of their equipment to go to war. So, we can assume mercs or enemies have no complete outfit... Both sides have to purchase additional equipment (if they want to). And it is pretty normal situation for any war all around the world. So mentioning "Russian soldiers" was not correct. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunokhod Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 28 minutes ago, Image Miroir said: Even if you know nothing, you have no obligation to provide a proof of your ignorance. What? Dont get it. 29 minutes ago, Image Miroir said: Recently Russian soldiers had to purchase part of their equipment to go to war. So, we can assume mercs or enemies have no complete outfit... Yes, even russians can buy equipment with their own money. But JA3 mercs with 1000-3000$ payment per day cant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Image Miroir Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 27 minutes ago, Lunokhod said: But JA3 mercs with 1000-3000$ payment per day cant. They follow the Mandalorian credo: "the client has to pay the equipment". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaris_Wave Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 3 hours ago, Lunokhod said: Clothes define personality? Where? In middle school? What I mean is, in terms of the game, each character has a distinct look, like a comic book character or cartoon character who always wears the same outfit. I wasn't thinking of it being a fashion statement to define personality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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