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Lack of one bullet , can not use full auto fire mode


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Posted (edited)

Not sure what you mean by "lack of one bullet" - if you're referring to the semi-automatic mode, it is available, but not selected. If it cannot be selected (for which I see no indicators in the screenshot, but I assume it's part of a video) - it could be because Fidel is a psycho, so he may choose to just go for the burst regardless, as in JA2. As for the automatic mode being unavailable, based on what I saw, it seems to be disabled in situations in which it would be rather unwise to use it (such as the one above) - when your path is obstructed, and bullets are likely to ricochet and/or you'd just end up mostly hitting the object behind which you are taking cover, as you would not be able to properly control the rifle. But I'm no ballistics expert, so perhaps those with more experience would have a better explanation. 

Edited by Hongweibing
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Disagree, unless the full auto requires like 5 bullets or something (because in that case you'll always be 1 bullet short), it's probably a good idea to disable full auto fire if it's going to result in the burst being turned off mid-spray.

If all full auto is 3 bullets, then it's completely fine to turn it off if you're at 2 bullets, imo.

Also doesn't the picture show that there's 14 bullets in the AK 47? This might be something else.

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2 hours ago, Hongweibing said:

Not sure what you mean by "lack of one bullet" - if you're referring to the semi-automatic mode, it is available, but not selected. If it cannot be selected (for which I see no indicators in the screenshot, but I assume it's part of a video) - it could be because Fidel is a psycho, so he may choose to just go for the burst regardless, as in JA2. As for the automatic mode being unavailable, based on what I saw, it seems to be disabled in situations in which it would be rather unwise to use it (such as the one above) - when your path is obstructed, and bullets are likely to ricochet and/or you'd just end up mostly hitting the object behind which you are taking cover, as you would not be able to properly control the rifle. But I'm no ballistics expert, so perhaps those with more experience would have a better explanation. 

I mean,there must be at least 15 bullets in the magazine, otherwise you can not use the third fire mode.

 

 

20230504223059.png

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2 hours ago, Carmine said:

I mean,there must be at least 15 bullets in the magazine, otherwise you can not use the third fire mode.

I see, thanks for clarifying. Though I'm not sure that's related - you can see the option is unavailable in some cases even when there are 30/30 bullets, e.g. here:

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Whereas here, with the same weapon, it is available:

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1 hour ago, Xeth Nyrrow said:

Maybe the gun he's using doesn't have the third fire mode? If that's the case though the UI shouldn't be showing an icon at all. Something weird happening either way.

There are AKs without an automatic mode (only semi-automatic and burst), but most regular models (such as standard service rifles) have such a mode, I seriously doubt they went for the exception here, though it is theoretically possible. Of course, only the devs can give a proper answer.

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I agree, it's stupid.

In fact it's even worse than that, this enemy was having a bottle of vodka just two hours before, being dead drunk he shouldn't be able to move. Moreso, the rifle he has was damaged by his younger brother when he went with it to some circus elephant attraction. I can't understand how developers weren't considering elephants walking on the gun making it useless. And last but not least, this guy's mother is really is sick and was asking him to go to pick up some medicine for her; so he shouldn't even be there!

Therefore, it'll be great from Heamimont to take fully in consideration all the events in their resolution system. A friend of mine even underlined the game being absurd from astrological point of view, as some key characters would not behave like that according to their astrological theme.

Refusing eligibility to a burst because there's not enough of bullets is not logical. If development team continues like that they'll end considering the gun is also needed for the burst. What a shame!

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34 minutes ago, Hongweibing said:

There are AKs without an automatic mode (only semi-automatic and burst), but most regular models (such as standard service rifles) have such a mode, I seriously doubt they went for the exception here, though it is theoretically possible. Of course, only the devs can give a proper answer.

On the dev stream that finished about 2 hours ago, they were showing the game it's confirmed that the last firing option as indeed reserved for full auto. The gun they showed in game stream also didn't have the option either but rather the naught symbol like in the OP's pic.

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In JA2, you could use burst fire even if you didn't have enough rounds for a full burst. This meant you'd pay the full AP cost and accuracy penalty and just put out fewer bullets.

Why was this changed? Because in JA3, fully automatic fire "suppresses" the enemy, and I don't mean it's more effective at filling up a hidden value like in JA2 or Xenonauts, I mean that "suppression" is a condition that is specifically tied to automatic fire, so it must be a purely binary thing: either you meet the requirements and can suppress the enemy, or you can't.

At first glance, I'm not a fan of this design, but I'm trying to keep an open mind.

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7 minutes ago, Xeth Nyrrow said:

On the dev stream that finished about 2 hours ago, they were showing the game it's confirmed that the last firing option as indeed reserved for full auto. The gun they showed in game stream also didn't have the option either but rather the naught symbol like in the OP's pic.

Yes, just saw that, there the explanation is simple - there are not enough APs (if you're referring to the scene with Fauda). It also shows that if a weapon does not have auto mode - the icon does not appear at all - so that's not the case. Checked a few more videos, indeed, Carmine is right, the explanation is, unfortunately, simpler than I'd hoped - in this case it is just the fact that there are not enough bullets, which I agree, doesn't make a lot of sense. So basically, the icon will (only?) be unavailable if you don't have enough APs or ammo (same would go for the burst, by the way, if you don't have at least 3 bullets, but that makes more sense):

Screenshot2023-05-04213129.thumb.jpg.c7a322b41f9f64de1dfa4d8cd47c97a7.jpg
Personally, I don't see myself using auto mode, as it seems too wasteful, so I don't mind it too much, but I see no technical reason why it shouldn't be made available even with less than 15 bullets (especially since this is not a real life requirement for auto fire), as long as players are aware they're spending the same number of APs. Let's hope that the devs will address this issue at some point.

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Posted (edited)

Full auto or burst should be allowed no matter how many cartridges are left in the magazine. Whether you have enough rounds in the magazine to actually make it worthwhile is down to whether you are paying attention or not. The gun will still try to do whatever you have selected it to do.

Also, rates of fire vary, so that restriction is silly. An AKM has a ROF of 600 per minute. A Steyr AUG has 650 rpm. Meanwhile, the FAMAS has 950 rpm (approx. and is why its 3-round burst mode is handy) and a MAC-11 can go up to 1600 rpm, depending on the .380 Auto cartridges loaded.

That means, with a slower rate of fire, having less available rounds remaining in the magazine should be less of an issue, as you are not going to fire all that ammo off quicker than you can release your finger off the trigger.

Edited by Solaris_Wave
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You all don't get it. This is why you can't autofire with less than 15 rounds.

ja3autofire.thumb.jpg.eb9af1ea2b513de4769dbc015895a1ff.jpg

Autofire inflicts Suppressed on enemies within weapon range. It doesn't matter if you hit them, or if you damage them, or what their morale is. If you use Autofire on them and they're within range, they're suppressed. Period.

That's why you can't fire off a "short" autofire, because it includes an effect that can't be divided. That's why they made it a strict requirement.

I can't say I'm the biggest fan of this design decision, but it is what it is.

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Stuurminator thanks for the clarification....and yet another reason why full auto is a problem, LOL. It does make sense I guess but yeah not ideal. It looks like burst is the way to do extra damage and full auto is mostly for suppression with some possible chip damage.

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Posted (edited)

I think that the confusion here (at least for me) might be to do with what Haemimont regards as burst and automatic fire, and myself thinking of the fire modes on actual firearms. I was looking at it with regards to whether a gun had a burst selection mode and/or full-auto selection. They are simply using those terms in a general manner about he amount of bullets fired and the length of time doing it. Haemimont using the term 'Burst' is any gun capable of fully automatic fire, being fired in bursts (the merc pressing and releasing the trigger quickly while the gun is switched to full-auto). I am used to using the term 'Burst' for any gun that has a 2 or 3 round burst mode. Likewise, they are using the term 'Automatic' to indicate a lengthy pull of the trigger when on full-auto, intending to saturate or suppress. I am just thinking of a gun being switched to fully automatic as a mode of fire, rather than anything else.

Maybe it might help if those actions are re-worded so they do not sound the same as the actual settings on a weapon. Maybe 'Controlled Burst' and 'Suppressive Fire', as an example?

Any ideas?

Edited by Solaris_Wave
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I've seen both, "burst" and, "full auto" used which is pretty clear. I assume they are giving any gun that has full auto capability a burst mode also even if in real life that particular gun doesn't have a burst mode. It's not really important that the guns have accurate fire modes aside from obvious weird things like shotguns having full auto. What matters is how it all plays and balances and right now it seems like there are lingering issues to resolve still.

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