Wounds should be more serious.

[Biff]

@sandman25dcsss

Interesting, but it seems like a very unreliable way to play. A single miss can ruin your day.

This is a crazy video on melee, but the guy isn't using the +50% damage build. His build actually seems broken...

https://youtu.be/u8FzVyN1tI4?t=310

[Elder III]

13 hours ago, 5Cents said:

I dont wont to citate a well known JA2 Mod..:D
..but for a JA3 one, it could be an option simply increase the time-cost to heal a wound properly. So healing wounds could take a looong time, a few ingame-weeks or so.
What also could be imaginable, would be an permanent health lowering of health points, received from a certain amount of wound. That would be feeling fair and unforgiving and also more realistic, for me.
Alternatively, these permanent wounds could also only been healed by dedicated Docs, plus beeing in a hospital setting.

But most player wont like that and it wouldnt feel like original JA any longer, but getting closer to that popular JA2 Mod, again..: D
But again, i would like it.

 

I like to have the game accessible to a broad audience of players and play styles. With that in mind, I would like it as an optional difficulty setting, so people that want it (like me) can use it, and those who don't want it (presumably the majority) can leave it off.

I am familiar with the JA2 mod that you speak of. 🙂

[5Cents]

Hm. If i understand that right, wounds give you +50% damage in JA3?! Didnt noticed that, when i played it weeks ago. And i didnt read it either, because there is no manual, or is there?

If thats true, and i understood that right?!, the whole thing getting even more absurd for me and JA3 turns out being even more Alice in Wonderland for me..😂
Well, but at least its funny, isnt it!

But its meant, only with some special perk, or? Didnt have to time or possiblity, to read all characteristics of them

Edited August 11, 2023 by 5Cents

[sandman25dcsss]

7 hours ago, Biff said:

@sandman25dcsss

Interesting, but it seems like a very unreliable way to play. A single miss can ruin your day.

This is a crazy video on melee, but the guy isn't using the +50% damage build. His build actually seems broken...

https://youtu.be/u8FzVyN1tI4?t=310

Yes, the guy I was talking about did't play on ironman so he did reload sometimes.

Interesting video, I didn't expect 200 damage...

Edited August 12, 2023 by sandman25dcsss

[sandman25dcsss]

5 hours ago, 5Cents said:

Hm. If i understand that right, wounds give you +50% damage in JA3?! Didnt noticed that, when i played it weeks ago. And i didnt read it either, because there is no manual, or is there?

If thats true, and i understood that right?!, the whole thing getting even more absurd for me and JA3 turns out being even more Alice in Wonderland for me..😂
Well, but at least its funny, isnt it!

But its meant, only with some special perk, or? Didnt have to time or possiblity, to read all characteristics of them

You can mouse over every perk in C screen and see what it does. There is no need for tutorial here.

Edited August 12, 2023 by sandman25dcsss

[sandman25dcsss]

8 hours ago, Biff said:

@sandman25dcsss

Interesting, but it seems like a very unreliable way to play. A single miss can ruin your day.

This is a crazy video on melee, but the guy isn't using the +50% damage build. His build actually seems broken...

https://youtu.be/u8FzVyN1tI4?t=310

I looked this video again and I see it was 100 damage, not 200. But I don't understand why AP increased after one of those kills...

[sandman25dcsss]

7 minutes ago, sandman25dcsss said:

I looked this video again and I see it was 100 damage, not 200. But I don't understand why AP increased after one of those kills...

Oh, it gives +4 AP for 2 critical attacks.

[Raeven]

21 hours ago, sandman25dcsss said:

I wonder if you played other RPGs. Most of them are similar to JA in this regard i.e. they don't autoheal you at the end of map. You really overestimate uniqueness of JA. Even XCOM2 makes you skip next mission(s) for heavily wounded or tired soldiers, lol. JA is for casuals because it allows you to heal almost dead mercs with meds between fights, xcom2 does not have this type of healing or at least it is rather limited and requires putting first aid kits in grenade slots.

Don't get me wrong, I like the game, but I am shocked to see so many design mistakes like making players waste time because mercs are tired (other games properly use this mechanic to encourage using other soldiers which makes zero sense in JA because of hire contracts and travel speed while JA does it for "realism") or making players waste time by "repairing" weapons which does not ever require any components, just time.

I have yet to play any RPG where wounds were as devastating and consequential as they were in JA1 / JA2. JA3 is probably a close second. XCOM is not even close, because you're not as attached to your soldiers as characters. At least, I'm not. 

JA, especially JA2, is the only game that has caused me to wince physically when my mercs get hit, because I'm attached to them and because healing them will take time.

All other RPGs I have played have instant-heal items. 

This is why I say it is unique among RPGs when it comes to damage and healing, in my experience.

P.S. I like the fact that mercs get tired and weapons break in the game. It might not be to your taste, but it is not a 'design mistake'. It is an intentional choice.

[sandman25dcsss]

3 hours ago, Raeven said:

because you're not as attached to your soldiers as characters. At least, I'm not. 

...

because I'm attached to them and because healing them will take time.

That's on you then. I feel attached even in non-RPG games like Age of Wonders.

[5Cents]

I even felt attached to mass units in strategy-games, like in Steel Panthers or Spellcross, World in Conflict, Company of Heroes, or Men of War, where they were all were name and faceless, too.

[Biff]

I made a new topic about the melee build.

 

[D13]

Perhaps one reason why JA3 cannot make merc wounds as serious as JA2 is that JA3 does not grant the player as much control over a merc's fate as JA2. Almost every wound suffered in JA2 felt as if the player could have done something differently to avoid it (I don't mean low damage stray bullets, but the serious wounds).

JA3 has enemies spawning out of nowhere, even inside non-hostile sectors, right next to your mercs. JA3 does not even allow players to freely position mercs when a controlled sector is being attacked with advance notice. There are situations where we know the army is about to enter my very defensible village, but I can only place my mercs in an open, indefensible space right next to the army's entry point. With design decisions like that, wounds having more severe consequences would also make unfair situations more frustrating.

[CersaisAdvocate]

28 minutes ago, D13 said:

JA3 has enemies spawning out of nowhere, even inside non-hostile sectors, right next to your mercs. JA3 does not even allow players to freely position mercs when a controlled sector is being attacked with advance notice. There are situations where we know the army is about to enter my very defensible village, but I can only place my mercs in an open, indefensible space right next to the army's entry point. With design decisions like that, wounds having more severe consequences would also make unfair situations more frustrating.

These are legit points that should be solved and not be plastered over by having inconsequential wounds. Also what keeps getting overlooked is that JA2 style wounds would impact the evemies as well as the player. The two things I dislike the most when I compare JA3 wounds to JA2 wounds are.

1: Bandaging mercs being an optional nice to have and not a necessity that creates tense and dramatic situations.

2: "Near dead" enemies running over halve the map and hitting my mercs behind cover with no problem.