Xeth Nyrrow

I would imagine they are only giving info when they are pretty sure of the system staying as in, at least for release of the game. For the guns that sort of stuff is minor as the numbers can be tweaked and is likely going to be the easiest thing to mod in the game.

Thanks for this list, now put all their stats up and start a wiki. 🙂 I really likely Trevor as a character but he was kind of unusable. Once he got to level 4 (which was easy with his high wisdom) he became the most expensive merc and he still had 5 levels to go.

That's very common, that is partly why i hired Hitman and Ice a lot and why I love Meltdown and Fox.

Yeah I like Mouse being back and she adds some great value. Most of the new mercs have sub par stats in the areas I personally like, wisdom and agility namely. Aside from that Hitman, Ice, Fox, and of course my main man: FIDEL!

It's a little late for you to try and take the high ground here. Also if you believe this is an, "echo chamber" why are you wasting your time here?

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/sir-this-is-a-wendys

Sir, this is a Wendy's...

Person starts a topic titled instead of complaining, let's find a solution then proceeds to do nothing but complain while telling people their options are, "wrong" and offers no solution except to give in to exactly what he wants. Just let it go, the decision has been made and complaining won't help make it change.

Even though I don't want CtH showing and I wouldn't use it, I don't like the explanation they gave on stream. There's no need to make 2 games as they said, just have it be a toggle with it default to off. Don't adjust the AI at all because of it, just let it be the same. If the player wants to min/max the game with numbers and it ends up being way too easy, tough luck for them but they can feel good about their precious numbers being shown.

I think the best system would be to have a limited amount of slots but also be limited by total weight similar to JA2 just without all the fussy different shaped bag slots. Bulk more than weight is really a factor when carrying things anyways.

I think that's a valid concern and I hope crafting isn't the only upgrade path. I would like to see it done like JA2 where some are found/bought, others are made and there wasn't any overlap in functionality. It's also possible some weird gadgets could be made like JA2 had but as long as it remains supplementary or a novelty instead of a main upgrade path I think that would be best.

The special weapon mods you could create in JA2 were quite good. You could reduce the AP cost of a gun, extend its range or both on the same gun. Since those parts were very limited you had to figure out which guns to mod as they were permanent. I liked putting both range extension and AP reduction on the Automag III's which made them quite juicy when Fox used them. It's like another layer of loot progression/rarity because it's special stuff for your favorite guns. I don't think that's a bad thing unless the bonuses are extreme. In JA2 they were noticeable but not game altering so I would hope for a similar balance in JA3.

I've seen both, "burst" and, "full auto" used which is pretty clear. I assume they are giving any gun that has full auto capability a burst mode also even if in real life that particular gun doesn't have a burst mode. It's not really important that the guns have accurate fire modes aside from obvious weird things like shotguns having full auto. What matters is how it all plays and balances and right now it seems like there are lingering issues to resolve still.

Stuurminator thanks for the clarification....and yet another reason why full auto is a problem, LOL. It does make sense I guess but yeah not ideal. It looks like burst is the way to do extra damage and full auto is mostly for suppression with some possible chip damage.

I noticed this too, especially the generally hostile attitude to match. It's almost as if the person who called everyone a liar and/or an alt account decided to start making alt accounts themselves... 🤔

By moving and shooting I don't mean simultaneously but rather as 2 games actions performed in the same turn. Running with a machine gun or even an assault rifle then unloading half the clip/belt/mag would take a lot of time so only short movements or none should be allowed before using full auto. If you want to move far and still be able to shoot, there's always burst or single shot. And nothing patronizing at all in what you said, I appreciate your thoughtful replies. Your examples are good as applied to the real world but not so much in game I'm afraid. Since turn based combat isn't very realistic compromises have to be made to translate it to a viable game format. For example, instead of a full auto mode a machine gun maybe could have very low AP cost bursts so that you could do 3 or 4 bursts in a round that simulates full auto. I'm not suggesting this just saying there are alternatives. Using auto fire to hit a moving target or clear a room just doesn't exist in the game which means even less reasons to have the mode. Right now it looks like full auto is only used for big damage (but not with the nerf?) or suppression. I wonder if they even let you spread your full auto shots over an arc to allow multiple target suppression? This is why I ask if having the cool and realistic full auto mode is even worth having because it's creating more issues than it's solving.

Two more thoughts: 1) Make it so a merc can't move and then shoot full auto in the same turn. It even makes sense from a realism point of view as well as game balance. This along with an aim penalty would make full stay as a suppressing role but enough bullet spam to maybe do serious damage. 2) Alternatively, why does there have to be a full auto mode anyways? I would say for suppression but that would have to be really good to justify me wasting have a mag of bullets on. However if overwatching is so rare then why do I need to suppress them? Instead just a merc could just run and flank. Full auto seems like something added that maybe causes more problems than fun it adds to the game.

It was revealed on the stream today that they settled on a 50% damage penalty for multi shot attacks for balance reasons after having tried other methods, including accuracy penalties. In testing they said the go to tactic had become rushing up point blank and unloading in to enemies. This means there another, bigger design problem: Why are mercs allowed to be able to rush up point blank in the first place without being picked apart by overwatching enemies? This is a large design problem that also extends to making melee too powerful as it's the same thing with a different weapon. Based on how the dev today said melee feels OP and might get nerfed, I have a feeling it's still an issue. If they have addressed this since then then they should go back to testing accuracy penalties instead of counter intuitive damage reductions. If they haven't, then there needs to be better overwatch/reaction shot mechanics in the game. Allowing such risk-less movement by the players is not good and further creates a comic book game play vibe of dashing around the battlefield without any fear of being shot. I really would love for them to make a demo for us to test and give feedback on before release but I know that can take away from dev time. With some of these weird balancing decisions though I feel it's probably worth it.

You can watch the whole thing here. There go in to a good bit of detail about it: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1811204423

This was discussed again on the stream that ended 2 hours ago but they said they did it as a way to balance the damage of burst/auto fire being too strong. In their testing they said the meta was to just run up point blank and burst/auto enemies down. They said they tried other balancing methods but didn't like the results. Also mentioned is that they are open to changes/balancing after the game launches. I think the bigger issue is that the game allows you to be able to run up to enemies so easily to be able to use burst/auto in the first place. Maybe they need better overwatch mechanics to fix this.

On the dev stream that finished about 2 hours ago, they were showing the game it's confirmed that the last firing option as indeed reserved for full auto. The gun they showed in game stream also didn't have the option either but rather the naught symbol like in the OP's pic.

They have said modding will be enabled so that means some functions will be open to mod. Assuming it's like the Tropico game which are based on Unreal Engine 4 then it should be easy to mod. This idea of proprietary engines is pretty dated, companies don't make their own engines much anymore due to cost and time but rather use major ones then modify them quite a bit. The core still is there with modding being part of those engine by design.

Maybe the gun he's using doesn't have the third fire mode? If that's the case though the UI shouldn't be showing an icon at all. Something weird happening either way.

Both can be true I suppose. I really hope they don't (and don't think they will) go the super hero comic book route. Assuming they don't, they have to make sure these new, "powers" are balanced enough so that it doesn't revolve around only using a handful of the best ones that become must haves. I'd consider that much worse than going full comic book like the nuXcoms did. Also I think they know going toward nuXcom game play too much will alienate both new and old players. I'm not too worried about them taking that path but more so about large imbalances in abilities like free move and grit that we have now. When you add big play maker abilities like those to a game delicately balanced around relatively small differences between forces like JA2 was, they tend to have tremendous impacts.

Yeah I feel exactly the same that there is room for them to add fun but it needs to have limits. These are the things having a beta test would really bring to light so we can find obvious abuses that need balancing. I have a feeling there will be a patch or two with some heavy nerfs shortly after release. Though if the game is moddable enough I might just make my own balancing mod and call it a day. I would prefer a more balanced base game to work without that isn't balanced around cartoony actions one upping each other. If it over shadows the gun play too much then we know they went too far.