I want to like this game so bad but I just cant...

[shadow3467]

4 runs now all resulting in a squad wipe because my mercs cant hit the broadside of a barn from 5 feet away, and yet the enemies can hit me from 30 feet away while my merc is behind full cover (not half shield, full shield)

Some of you will say "just get closer the starting guns are inaccurate", but in most of these ridiculously missed shots my character is like 4-6 movement grids away from the enemy

Not to mention the enemies just feel so bullet spongey, there was a group of goons that I threw 3 grenades at until they died (one I had to finish off with a shot).... what kind of normal human takes 3 grenades 2 feet away from them?

Last major issue, it seems like enemy AI does not really work on action points or if they do, they have like 23AP each. Because they can run 15 feet, jump over a fence, and then still shoot you ACCURATELY 2 times...

The general concept of the game is so cool. I've waited so long for a turn based strategy game that is not based in fantasy or aliens but in actual real modern combat/warfare.

Maybe I'll come back to the game if the modding scene picks up and someone balances the game around a bit more.

rant over, tell me to gitgud as most of these niche game communities usually do to any outside opinion

[marcinl0]

Yes, I fully understand, necessary changes - please see JA3 patch needed - urgent

[Solaris_Wave]

I have not yet been able to play the game so my words will not be as accurate as others, at this time. However, I am familiar with the general complaints of JA3, while also having experience of JA2 and other turn-based squad games.

There will always be that need for character progression where your starting battles are challenging, even against introductory enemies. It gives you a sense of accomplishment as your soldiers gain skills and experience, you gain money and weapons and progress further into the game. There will always be some to-and-fro as you face stronger enemies, while advancing yourself.

Now, with that said, JA3 sounds like it needs some patching to address certain imbalances. Lots of people are complaining about enemies who are bullet sponges, seemingly unfazed by even powerful weapons. These aren't bosses, significant characters or elite units, but the starting militia. The tougher soldiers will arrive later on.

Ammo is too scarce, even when your mercs are using the same guns as the enemy. Meanwhile, they have infinite ammo. Right up to the point where you kill them. Then all that ammo they had becomes unavailable to you.

Others have also voiced concerns about the starting enemy militia's ability to move a significant distance and still have plenty of action points left over to shoot accurately with their weapons.

Edited July 17, 2023 by Solaris_Wave

[Tzg]

12 minutes ago, shadow3467 said:

4 runs now all resulting in a squad wipe because my mercs cant hit the broadside of a barn from 5 feet away, and yet the enemies can hit me from 30 feet away while my merc is behind full cover (not half shield, full shield)

Some of you will say "just get closer the starting guns are inaccurate", but in most of these ridiculously missed shots my character is like 4-6 movement grids away from the enemy

Not to mention the enemies just feel so bullet spongey, there was a group of goons that I threw 3 grenades at until they died (one I had to finish off with a shot).... what kind of normal human takes 3 grenades 2 feet away from them?

Last major issue, it seems like enemy AI does not really work on action points or if they do, they have like 23AP each. Because they can run 15 feet, jump over a fence, and then still shoot you ACCURATELY 2 times...

The general concept of the game is so cool. I've waited so long for a turn based strategy game that is not based in fantasy or aliens but in actual real modern combat/warfare.

Maybe I'll come back to the game if the modding scene picks up and someone balances the game around a bit more.

rant over, tell me to gitgud as most of these niche game communities usually do to any outside opinion

Yeah. The problem is you are wrong. Not wrong in how you play or how you feel but wrong in fundamental expectations from JA. 

The general concept of the game is so cool. I've waited so long for a turn based strategy game that is not based in fantasy or aliens but in actual real modern combat/warfare.

I guess you never played JA games. This is not actual real modern combat/warfare game. It is and always have been a semi tactical, very grotesque piss-take on mercenaries, action movies from 80's and 90's and everything around it with a healthy dose of science fiction (or rather fiction than science) and pulp fiction. 
So yeah, expecting modern combat - that's not what you'll get here. 

 

[Tzg]

6 minutes ago, marcinl0 said:

Yes, I fully understand, necessary changes - please see JA3 patch needed - urgent

Misiek - wez przestan spamowac to gowno. 

[Tzg]

1 minute ago, Solaris_Wave said:

I have not yet been able to play the game so my words will not be as accurate as others, at this time. However, I am familiar with the general complaints of JA3, while also having experience of JA2 and other turn-based squad games.

There will always be that need for character progression where your starting battles are challenging, even against introductory enemies. It gives you a sense of accomplishment as your soldiers gain skills and experience, you gain money and weapons and progress further into the game. There will always be some to-and-fro as you face stronger enemies, while advancing yourself.

Now, with that said, JA3 sounds like it needs some patching to address certain imbalances. Lots of people are complaining about enemies who are bullet sponges, seemingly unfazed by even powerful weapons. These aren't bosses, significant characters or elite units, but the starting militia. The tougher soldiers will arrive later on.

Ammo is too scarce, even when your mercs are using the same guns as the enemy. Meanwhile, they have infinite ammo. Right up to the point where you kill them. Then all that ammo they had becomes unavailable to you.

Others have also voiced concerns about the starting enemy militia's ability to move a significant distance and still have plenty of action points left over to shoot accurately with their weapons.

So maybe play it first. 

There is zero problem with ammo - ammo is plentiful, boringly easily obtainable, and you just craft whatever ammo you need in any amounts you need. There are zero problems with ammo - JA2 was much harder in this aspect. 

The other problem is the sucky mercenaries at the beginning - THIS IS THE CORE OF THIS GAME ALWAYS HAVE BEEN - they always suck at the beginning, they have sucky guns, sucky ammo, with sucky protection, and their stats suck so badly they can't hit the barn from 2 m - as it ALWAYS was the case with Jagged Alliance series! 

It is super easy to work up tactics, obtain new guns (you can get MG-42 actually, at least TWO in the first couple sectors) and explosives to deal with every single enemy with ease on the Ernie island. You can make use of the environment (mines, bombs, traps), big ass machine guns etc. 

But you need to understand - THIS IS NOT MIL-SIM GAME! It just isn't. Never was and never will be - unless it is broken with something like shitty 1.13 for JA2. 

[Solaris_Wave]

1 minute ago, Tzg said:

So maybe play it first.

I will when I am able to get back home, where my gaming PC is. However, that won't be for another month.

[Tzg]

3 minutes ago, Solaris_Wave said:

I will when I am able to get back home, where my gaming PC is. However, that won't be for another month.

You may get some performance patches by then 😉 - also you should invest in Steam Deck (it is a little bit finicky on that device but its amazing game to play on the go!). I would refrain for making up your opinion based on some CtH and 1.13 fanatics. 
It is not a perfect game but a really good successor to JA2 - with the modding so open and easy I am pretty sure everyone will be able to get exactly what they want from this game. Even broken crap like 1.13 or some stupid chess wannabe game such as XCOM with their CtH etc. 

Edited July 17, 2023 by Tzg

[chr_isso]

Sorry mate but it seems you did not understand how the game works.
even in the first few sectors it's totally possible to not get hit at all.

If you're smart, you grab those Gewehr 98 from the Graveyard and snipe the shit out of the enemies.
Maybe I will make a video on this topic.

[Solaris_Wave]

5 minutes ago, Tzg said:

You may get some performance patches by then 😉 - also you should invest in Steam Deck (it is a little bit finicky on that device but its amazing game to play on the go!). I would refrain for making up your opinion based on some CtH and 1.13 fanatics. 
It is not a perfect game but a really good successor to JA2 - with the modding so open and easy I am pretty sure everyone will be able to get exactly what they want from this game. Even broken crap like 1.13. 

Having to wait will work out as an advantage in some ways. As you say, by then there should be one or more patches. Also, more mods will be available. I might not need any mods but having the choice is always nice for everyone. I will probably mod it myself as well.

I am not bothered by CtH fanatics. I never needed it before and I doubt that will change.

[sandman25dcsss]

If the game is too hard, there are many modes which can help.

Show chance to hit mod shows expected damage also so you can see how many grenades you will need and why you miss (for instance, my avatar character has just missed a 94% hit and I had to use Barry's weakest grenade, it was not frustrating at all because I knew what happened).

Another mod gives almost unlimited ammo.

3 more mods fix gold problems by starting gold, mines depletion and even give gold on demand.

Edited July 17, 2023 by sandman25dcsss

[shadow3467]

22 minutes ago, sandman25dcsss said:

If the game is too hard, there are many modes which can help.

Show chance to hit mod shows expected damage also so you can see how many grenades you will need and why you miss (for instance, my avatar character has just missed a 94% hit and I had to use Barry's weakest grenade, it was not frustrating at all because I knew what happened).

Another mod gives almost unlimited ammo.

3 more mods fix gold problems by starting gold, mines depletion and even give gold on demand.

Hopefully there's one mod that balances out the game kind of a combination of all those mods but maybe with settings to change how much you'd like

 

I would have thought that would be part of the game itself.

[sandman25dcsss]

4 minutes ago, shadow3467 said:

Hopefully there's one mod that balances out the game kind of a combination of all those mods but maybe with settings to change how much you'd like

 

I would have thought that would be part of the game itself.

I think having many mods is better, then you can choose what you want. It is like options in 1.13 except you customize it in mod manager, there is no need in mod to set your preferences.

Edited July 17, 2023 by sandman25dcsss

[Claudius33]

@shadow3467 : see the advices that @Grim kindly posted in this thread :

 

[BossWeapons]

1 hour ago, shadow3467 said:

4 runs now all resulting in a squad wipe because my mercs cant hit the broadside of a barn from 5 feet away, and yet the enemies can hit me from 30 feet away while my merc is behind full cover (not half shield, full shield)

The enemies seem to be deadly accurate with burst fire. There have been cases where they didn't hit me while I was prone behind full cover, a significant distance away from them, there was fog and it was dark. But outside of those parameters they have this uncanny ability to hit you to a point where it almost feels like something was wrong with how the game calculates burst fire attacks. Could just be confirmation bias though.

The spongyness of the enemies could be from the ridiculous amount of body armor these guys wear. Almost every enemy has some sort of body protection and the guns don't deal crazy amounts of damage, so every bit helps them to take tank the damage. The health values vary from enemy to enemy quite a lot. Some of the starting island dudes can have as low as 30 health, while some of them can have up to 90s. This alone makes stealth kills feel mandatory since it doesn't matter if you're shooting a 10 damage piddly pistol or a 35 damage rifle. They both kill if the stealth kill check succeeds.

Enemies do seem to have unlimited ammo from what I've noticed and the wounds having no actual penalties, unless you're hit in the limbs or being attacked with special attacks/ammo generally plays towards the enemy always having a huge home field advantage. Since, you know, they don't have to care about wasting ammo, gun conditioning, having to spend days after a bad fight recuperating etc. etc. In general there's a lot of "gamey" elements you need to take the advantage of to be able to do well.

Grenades feel weird. The normal grenades are almost too weak, not causing any significant damage effects, knockdowns, AP loss etc. I've found a whole bunch of different types of grenades, some a lot more useful than the others. Regular flashbangs for example feel so much more useful than normal frags just because they can "disable" a whole group of enemies and make them less likely to hit you.

I haven't proceeded too far into the mainland yet, but the difficulty spikes up quite quickly. The enemies become really tough really quick. I can see why people feel the game is balanced badly. I wouldn't be against just taking away from the enemy marksmanship skills to lessen the difficulty curve, but in the end I haven't played enough to make sure this whole thing is not just me sucking at the game.

Mods will probably make this game really great though, once the tools are out and people sink their teeth into it.

[Grim]

Ok, if you are having difficulties killing enemies, check if you do these things :

1) Check your line of sight. Less obstacle is better. Check if the enemy is in cover stance, if so, "expose" him with a shotgun or going around the cover.
2) Aim more. One aimed shot is better than 2 standard shots. Single shot is often better than burst or auto. Keep in mind shotguns hit everything in the cone for 15is damage, AND have a projectile that can hit for tremendous damage. Bad mrk mercs will always hit with the cone shaped attack.
3) Aim for an unprotected body part. Always look at the best body part you can shoot. If you can pass the armor, what effet will the shot do, what damage will I do... It can change the encounter easily.
4) Do not underestimate melee weapons. They are deadly in good hands. Igor, mouse, Blood... are all very good with knifes, and can close in efficiently. Add a few perks at level up for free movement, grit on hit, or stealth and they will be killing machines that cost no ammo. Later you will find machetes for strength users. They have a charge special attack to close in.
5) Do not underestimate stealth. When the enemy is present, always move stealthily, grouped. Spot the isolated enemies. Put your shooters on overwatch. Knife kill (takedown button) or (silenced) snipe in the head max aim the guy. If it works, you have one less enemy to care, repeat for the others. If it failed, you are in position to kill in overwatch those coming around the first turn.
6) Use overwatch on open fields. Any enemy approaching will be shot, possibly more than if you shoot your turn, and closer. MGs are the best for that but cost a lot of ammo. Set your overwatch cone so that the enemy is exposed and rather close when you will interrupt him (for best results).
7) Watch for the weather effects, they can change your ranged accuracy dramaticly or your damage.
8 ) Watch for enemy roles. The melee enemies will be a lot more tanky, run fast and stab hard if they close in. Set overwatchs before your mercs to intercept, use leg shots to slow them... Snipers can be deadly but tend to have very low HP. Use distraction shot on machinegunners to break their overwatch...
9) Mod your weapons with you mechanic. Suppressors on snipers can change your stealth approach dramaticly. Mod your weapons for a specific purpose (ie overwatch, or precision aim+++)
10) Go in large teams (4-6). More mercs = more shots per turn, and different tools to beat the enemy. A sniper for long shots, an explo expert to grenade groups and covers + shotgun to close in and finish them off, a MG to overwatch, a melee guy for stealth kills and/or big damage on closeby enemies, an auto guy with SMG for move and gun the random goons close and possibly in cover... Do not hesitate at recruiting cheap mercs at the beginning, they often have excellent stats for their cost and you can afford more of them.
11) Use hunker down (name? Cover? The big shield) when you cannot do anyother critical action. It will protect your merc quite a lot and keep APs for the next turn.
12) Use special attacks of your weapon. SMG and handgun run&gun let you move and shoot, very good to close in, you can even change weapon then and blast (shotgun) or overwatch, or Sniper pin down, that is a very AP cheap attack that hits the enemy at the end of his turn. Switch weapons and combine them to your advantage.
13) Use free movement. Many perks give you free movement or improve it. Shotgun, grenade, melee can trigger new free movements during your turn, use them to place your merc in the right spot.

And, as Claudius said, have a look at the other advices I put in the other thread "crying in the corner".
The game should be easy when you know how things work, honestly.

(Sorry, it's a bit raw, but I had a lot to throw in, and not a lot of time)

[Claudius33]

@Grim You know what, Haemimont should provide the JA newcomers with a mini Boot Camp campaign based on your advices with, Gus and Len acting as drill sergeants.

Dang woody, aim before you shoot!

Don't stay a sitting duck, woody, duck behind cover ... 

Edited July 17, 2023 by Claudius33