[PERK] "LIGHTNING REACTIONS" affecting 'Unaware' Stealth Kill attempts.

[GODSPEED]

I think I may have reached a turning point in the game (Faucheux; for those who know, no spoilers for others please).

Quite a few enemies now see to have the Perk "LIGHTNING REACTIONS".

I do think that the game, with the lack of 'Field of View' feels a little broken with perks such as these. If the guy can sense that I'm going to shoot at him and he's not even "looking" at me... okay. I get it. I guess that's what Perks are (I was kind of hoping JA wouldn't turn into a game relying on a puzzle game of 'perks' and that's what I feel the game is becoming the more I get into it; 50+ hours, the further I get into it, the more it feels like the xcom-style puzzle game of having to use the EXACT right perk at the right moment).

But I also find it a little ridiculous that such perks also affect outside of combat. I was all set up to take my stealth kill (silenced weapon). Everyone was unaware, no one had started noticing anyone. I shot.. or  I should say, I 'clicked' to take the shot, and instead the soldier hit the ground, my shot missed and combat started.


🙄 ...

[Grim]

Check this mod :
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3008768068

[GODSPEED]

8 minutes ago, Grim said:

Check this mod :
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3008768068

Sad that we have to think about modding this early after game release.

That said, I really want to finish the game the way it was intended - at least once - before modding. If I mod, I'm taking too many chances of breaking something.. and 50 hours in, I don't want to restart or get into a game-breaking bug.

Thanks for the heads-up, and I will apply mods if ever I play the game a second time around.

Edited July 23, 2023 by GODSPEED

[MateKiddleton]

I agree, lightning reactions doesn't make any sense at all. It should be a small chance to evade damage/grazing hit, not 100% plot armour.

[GODSPEED]

Another example of it in action.

Prepping a Stealth Kill using the combined Abilities of Raven and Raider.

 

Below is Ravens cone of Overwatch, and here I am aiming with Raider at the head of this enemy:

Here is the result:

 

 

But the worst part is: it doesn't seem to happen all the time. I've been testing to see what is up, the perks are either rolled or they "arbitrarily" don't always apply equally in the exact same condition.

I found it weird at one point, because Dr. Q has that perk, and I actually make use of him often to go shotgun blast a bunch of enemies and use all his points and stay in standing or crouched position. There are a few times where he was attacked, and never gone prone, and was hit, and then he goes prone on the next successful attack instead. (Maybe some abilities negate that "Lightning Reactions" ?)

Just like in this battle, there are many times I load, and sometimes I take the shot with Raider, and the enemy doesn't have Lightning Reactions, and sometimes he does.

What gives?


I've voiced my opinion so many times that I like the "unknown" when dealing with the Interrupt system in JA2, but this game doesn't work the same at all. There are no mentions if some perks are rolled, or have any chance to them. There is no mention if some perks are contested based on a roll of statistics or otherwise. (The perk that fires back at an enemy who missed you does a dexterity check, but it says so in the perk).

JA3 takes so much UI info to constantly give you details on status, what body part is armored, etc... to detail exactly what perks do... yet, it seems to roll dice when it comes time to make use of the perk (without telling you).


This is the same setup as above, but after loading the game:

Guard is dead this time, and Medic next to him is surprised.

On some loads, it alerts the entire camp.



Look, I love some randomness! But, if perks are so accurate and don't mention some "luck" when used, I take them as they are hard-coded to function the way they are explained, to the letter!


Anyone else find these "oddities"?

[sandman25dcsss]

Probably stealth kills ignore lightning reactions.

Edited July 24, 2023 by sandman25dcsss

[Skaldy]

2 hours ago, sandman25dcsss said:

Probably stealth kills ignore lightning reactions.

it is RNG based. Sometimes ignores sometimes kills. OR maybe it is a bug i dont know

[sandman25dcsss]

7 minutes ago, Skaldy said:

it is RNG based. Sometimes ignores sometimes kills. OR maybe it is a bug i dont know

Stealth kill is RNG. If successful, enemy dies. If failure and it is just a hit, lightning reactions perk is triggered and enemy avoids the damage.

Edited July 24, 2023 by sandman25dcsss

[Skaldy]

Just now, sandman25dcsss said:

Stealth kill is RNG.

+Lighting reflex will trigger or not, maximum rng. This is why i said does it ignore lightning reflex because of a bug or not.

[sandman25dcsss]

5 minutes ago, Skaldy said:

+Lighting reflex will trigger or not, maximum rng. This is why i said does it ignore lightning reflex because of a bug or not.

Do you mean you saw lightning reactions not triggered when shooting in normal mode (not from stealth)? Then yes, looks like a bug.

[Skaldy]

stealth mode- lightining reflex sometimes triggers sometimes doesnt trigger. I did 10 save loads on Good Place Prison. 3 times i scored head shot, 7 times dude activated lightning reflex. All stealth shots. This is why i said activating lightning reflex is RNG or bug?

Edited July 24, 2023 by Skaldy

[sandman25dcsss]

32 minutes ago, Skaldy said:

stealth mode- lightining reflex sometimes triggers sometimes doesnt trigger. I did 10 save loads on Good Place Prison. 3 times i scored head shot, 7 times dude activated lightning reflex. All stealth shots. This is why i said activating lightning reflex is RNG or bug?

You probably missed my edit of previous post so I will repeat it here: "Stealth kill is RNG. If successful, enemy dies. If failure and it is just a hit, lightning reactions perk is triggered and enemy avoids the damage.".

[Skaldy]

Just now, sandman25dcsss said:

You probably missed my edit of previous post so I will repeat it here: "Stealth kill is RNG. If successful, enemy dies. If failure and it is just a hit, lightning reactions perk is triggered and enemy avoids the damage.".

ah, i see. Basically you are saying stealth attack inflicting damage but not kill negated by the perk. Well to understand that really need to know exact HP of that guard and exact damage i am inflicting. But makes sense regarding how perk works i think.

[sandman25dcsss]

Just now, Skaldy said:

ah, i see. Basically you are saying stealth attack inflicting damage but not kill negated by the perk. Well to understand that really need to know exact HP of that guard and exact damage i am inflicting. But makes sense regarding how perk works i think.

Not exactly. Stealth kill is not identical to receiving lethal damage (100% HP), it is a special mechanic, you can see its 1-4 red lines indicator. It can happen only when the bullet is about to hit and the shooter is in stealth mode. A separate roll is made. If success, it is a kill no matter the damage. If failure, then damage is applied normally and it can be either lethal or non-lethal and lightning reactions can be triggered in both cases if available. So lightning reaction can protect even vs lethal damage, but still does nothing for stealth kills.

[Skaldy]

Just now, sandman25dcsss said:

Not exactly. Stealth kill is not identical to receiving lethal damage (100% HP), it is a special mechanic, you can see its 1-4 red lines indicator. It can happen only when the bullet is about to hit and the shooter is in stealth mode. A separate roll is made. If success, it is a kill no matter the damage. If failure, then damage is applied normally and it can be either lethal or non-lethal and lightning reactions can be triggered in both cases if available. So lightning reaction can protect even vs lethal damage, but still does nothing for stealth kills.

so by logic i should be able to kill someone with a failed stealth attack but a successful hit?

[sandman25dcsss]

Just now, Skaldy said:

so by logic i should be able to kill someone with a failed stealth attack but a successful hit?

Yes, unless the enemy has lightning reactions. This is why it is great to shoot in head, even if stealth kill roll fails, you still kill the enemy by normal damage.

[Skaldy]

Just now, sandman25dcsss said:

Yes, unless the enemy has lightning reactions. This is why it is great to shoot in head, even if stealth kill roll fails, you still kill the enemy by normal damage.

then my next question is, how do we identify a stealth kill?

[Jaywalker]

6 minutes ago, Skaldy said:

then my next question is, how do we identify a stealth kill?

You can identify a stealth kill opportunity, by the very distinct marker that crosses out the enemy HP and the relevant hint replacing your crit chance information.

If it kills them outright, it's a stealth kill, if it doesn't (with the exception of attacks that were otherwise lethal, but that's not relevant unless the Ligtning Reflexes perk triggers) then it wasn't a stealth kill.

Edited July 24, 2023 by Jaywalker

[sandman25dcsss]

2 minutes ago, Skaldy said:

then my next question is, how do we identify a stealth kill?

You can do it by trying to kill with non-lethal damage. If enemy dies, it was stealth kill. Also I think failing stealth kill roll and killing by normal damage makes you leave stealth mode. If there is another enemy in sight, he can see you now. If stealth kill roll is successful, you stay in stealth mode even if there are enemies in sight.

[Skaldy]

7 minutes ago, sandman25dcsss said:

You can do it by trying to kill with non-lethal damage. If enemy dies, it was stealth kill. Also I think failing stealth kill roll and killing by normal damage makes you leave stealth mode. If there is another enemy in sight, he can see you now. If stealth kill roll is successful, you stay in stealth mode even if there are enemies in sight.

thanks mate, that really explains a lot of questions i had. I was experimenting on how sound works in this game, so basically taking loud shot in stealth mode. I was surprised seeing my merc in "hidden" mode all the time.

Edited July 24, 2023 by Skaldy