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Clothes on character models are fixed


Goliath
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So after reading this article here https://www.global-esports.news/general/jagged-alliance-3-gameplay-summary-this-could-really-be-a-hit/
I am both hyped for the game but also worried about one single but important thing: mercs will not show clothes or items they put on on their model.

Here is what it says:

 

Quote

 

Dress code: Casual

Let”s get back to Livewire”s flak waistcoat for a moment: armour is not represented on the character model. This raised our eyebrows briefly, but the producer”s reasoning makes sense: “Each character should remain unique, and if they”re all wearing almost the same thing, it”s hard to tell them apart.” The actual weapon is always visible on the mercenaries though, phew.

Special equipment such as MD”s medical bag or Livewire”s hacking gear are strapped to their backs, easily recognisable. Before military tacticians have a crisis: Even though not every mercenary wears camouflage and combat boots, Haemimont Games doesn”t overdo it with civilian clothes either. No mercenary runs around in a neon yellow raver waistcoat, even hacker Livewire hides her colourful hair under her hoodie. And mercenaries with an army past, such as Fidel, usually wear their camouflage suit and beret."

 



I feel like this could be such a downer in an otherwise awesome list of what's to come.

I mean, i think mercs cn still be seperateable even though they wear other stuff then their basic model.
In JA2 all my guys got camo on, and still i knew who is who.

just gearing up our guys piece by piece that we find and see that on them is important imho.

how do you guys feel about this?

 

Edited by Goliath
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  • Goliath changed the title to Clothes on character models are fixed

Yeah, I agree, it is a bit of a downer. But thinking about it, it is better than ending up with a whole bunch of merc's that looks the same. Maybe we might get an update in the future were you have a show/hide feature.

In my opinion the very best would have been a system were, for instance, a flak-jacket looks different on different merc etc, together with a show/hide feature and maybe a small set of unique clothing options for each merc.

However, for me, the other parts of the game and gameplay are far more important than this.

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I agree that there are other, more important things that the developers need to get right. It is disappointing that there won't be any changes to clothing but it is something I expected. They would have their individual look to focus on their personality and for immediate identification. The mercs' individuality has always been a key part of the Jagged Alliance series and if they were all wearing the same clothing and armour, that would get lost somewhat. Not to mention, if there are a lot of different types of clothing, webbing and body armour to wear, that would mean a lot of 3D model variations. If the mercs were like generic soldiers with only different faces, that wouldn't be unrealistic to expect the game to feature every change of clothing.

I also expected (but I'm glad to read it anyway) that the shown weapons would change depending on what was being carried. That would have been annoying if the weapons were fixed and could lead to potential problems. If one of your mercs had a revolver shown in their hand and they were currently holding a bazooka, an enemy then appears from somewhere in close proximity and you think that you better shoot him with the .38 Special you think is being carried…

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I mentioned about this in some other topics before, of course if the gear such different kind of vests, helmets, masks, backpacks could appear it would be way more realistic without a question, we should have a lil option to customise our mercs in appearances.

Still hoping they will bring it so at least the helmets, vests and backpacks can appear you know they would never ever look like the same.

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I was wondering about showing helmets, backpacks and masks actually. Maybe there could be presets for certain items that don't really look all that different to one another? Instead of the 3D model fully reflecting precisely what is worn, each merc has an additional preset model for wearing items of significant change that gives a general idea of what is being worn? For instance, there are several different types of gas mask in use by each nation but for the sake of game purposes, a generic gas mask is worn on the 3D model to signify any gas mask equipped. A generic helmet can be shown to cover all types of helmet.

The idea then is to have each merc continue to have their individual look but to then show another 3D model that is exclusive to that merc when they are 'bulking up' with certain clothing and equipment. So Preset 1 shows the merc with standard appearance, Preset 2 if a mask is being worn (but still otherwise looking like Preset 1), Preset 3 for when that merc is wearing more equipment and so on. While all of that does sound like the developers would have to model every single type of clothing worn and interchange where necessary, I am visualising something in between not showing any differences and having to model every change.

Meanwhile, the inventory equipment images are the ones that show actual variation as for that you only really need to create a bitmap image for each distinct item in the game.

At the end of the day, I am just trying to picture a merc gearing up a little as the campaign progresses. While it might show individuality, having Smiley look like he is wearing a casual suit for a night out at the casino and his favourite jazz club, doesn't look like he is taking the job too seriously.

Edited by Solaris_Wave
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I think it's a good decision to give them their individual looks and I can understand that they don't go full customization as that would be tons of additional work, with a result that everyone looks the same at the end as the aim in a 100% effective scenario has to be that everyone looks like Shadow.
OR they would need to have "Cosmetic" options where you can wear good gear but can opt out to actually show that. But again, tons of additional work. Especially if all characters have their own models, because then you can't just reuse the same west on each character, but you need to adjust it for every model, check for clipping issues and whatnot. Of course having everything shown PLUS the cosmetic option would be the best option, but I don't see how this is worth the effort.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I don't think we need more than just helmets and body armor visible. Those two are essential, in my opinion, for any 3rd person, top-down, tactical, what have you games. It creates a bigger attachment for the unit in question when they look like they have some good gear on and makes me care for them more when I can suit my favourites in the better looking or the best armor. It also adds to the immersion. I mean, imagine playing the new X-COM games without ever having different looking armor on your soldiers. That would be pretty bland. It'll be disappointing if there's no visible equipment at all beyond guns and gadgets, or if there's no way to customise your mercs from their default looks. In a game like JA where the mercs are the heart and soul of the game one would expect to see something you can change on them.

How about this then: The game currently has no custom merc option and by the sound of it it's probably unlikely to happen. This would be the perfect opportunity to introduce your own merc into the game who would get all those fancy helmets and gear shown on their body, making it your very own, special looking bad-ass without having to "ruin" the aesthetics of the established characters. Hell, if there turns out to be no way to customise any of the hirable mercs, then you could go nuts with the custom guy and make him all kinds of action hero type looking during the character creation if nothing else.

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That sounds like a good compromise, to have custom apparel to appear on a custom merc. The only thing is, would people then complain as to why you can’t see custom and progressive gear on all of the other mercs? JA2 was easier to create different outfits for due to it all being bitmap graphics and yet the character models didn’t change, no matter what they wore. My custom merc always wore a white tank top except for when camo had been applied.

I don’t see why a custom merc can’t be added at some point later in the development. They would need a similar process to JA2. You would have character faces to choose from, a small range of character models to choose and then what speech pack you want, all depending on gender and skin colour. In JA2’s case, much of that character creation also went to the personality creator questionnaire.

Edited by Solaris_Wave
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It is true that your mercs didn't really change in the looks in the older games unless you applied camo on them. But I would argue times have changed since then. Every enemy in those older games were just dudes in a different coloured tank tops pretty much. It never bothered me then, and still doesn't when I play the older games. The imagination with the visuals being so simplistic keep it from getting bothersome. The guns all have the same rifle model or pistol models too if I'm not completely mistaken. But now when we can have unique weapon models and things like that it would feel just a tiny bit odd if nothing ever changed visually on the characters. It's not a deal breaker for me and I can cope if the game never has any extra fluff to the mercs seeing the mercs already look pretty different from oneanother.

Custom merc creation wouldn't be a huge hassle I would think. But so far we've got nothing to indicate it'll be an option once the game is released. If it happens that the feature is omitted for some reason, I would think it'd be a great way to sell some DLC, but that would most likely sour some folks pretty badly unless it was a part of a much larger update.

I guess we'll see in due time which way the game goes and what we'll get closer to the release date. I'm still hopeful it'll be a surprise reveal in one of the upcoming DevDiaries. 😄

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I think it just goes to show how much content JA2 and older games in general had 'out of the box'. These days DLC is both a good thing and a bad thing. I tend to buy most DLC for a game as I want the whole experience but it only really applies to expansion of a storyline or expansion to gameplay. I rarely buy cosmetics and only if they are cheap. Even then, I always feel that that sort of thing should have come with the game.

If a custom merc option arrives via DLC, I am pretty sure it will bring criticism. Why wasn't it with the main game, why was it made DLC when everyone would want it? If it arrives alongside the main game's release, those will be the criticisms made. If it arrives later, people will say, "Why not just put back the main release date until it was integrated with the main game?" The later release of it would also make people wonder whether they should restart the game as they want the full experience and don't want to complete the game once before playing again with their custom character.

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13 minutes ago, Solaris_Wave said:

I think it just goes to show how much content JA2 and older games in general had 'out of the box'.

 

I agree completely.  Among the many reasons why I didn't like the later games with Jagged Alliance in the title as much as Jagged Alliance 2 is just how narrow and shallow they were.  They added a few things to the experience, but they were missing so much of what made Jagged Alliance 2 so great.  And then they twisted the knife by having the games reference things like not going into the mines and just showing art of dead bloodcats.  It would have been better to just completely ignore the parts they chose to remove from the experience.

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  • 3 weeks later...

The latest images from the devblog just feed in my fears: 

The characters outfits look too cartoony and it stresses me already that we cannot change them. 

Clean, White pants? Colorfull shirts? 

This takes away from the dark, serious, dirty mercenary feel and makes it.... Cartoony

Edited by Goliath
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Damn gotta check this out, someone modded Jagged Alliance 2 very well like i never seen before, helmets, vests etc is also appearing, weapon sounds are more realistic and the new soundtrack gave it good vybes overall. Who ever made it, made a amazing job, would love to play Jagged Alliance 2 like this directly right away.

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10 hours ago, Hendrix said:

@LoboNocturno awesome find! Can't believe I missed this!

Found some more info and YouTube links here from the development:

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/jagged-alliance-2-lobot-new-sprites-and-animations-mod.140222/

Yea i left a comment right away after watching the video and the person replied me ;

"New animations are from project LOBOT which started years ago at Bear's Pit and finally finished to a playable state by new team last year. Most work is done by Asdow in recent updates, I just modify XMLs to work with 7609 and mods, since LOBOT is developed for actual trunk 1.13."

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