Good but not great..

[Hendrix]

As for ammo, the game sets you up a bit to "waste" ammo if you're not careful. Since assault rifles and smgs are pre set to burst fire when you select to aim at an opponent, it's easy to become lazy and just fire away. Atleast for myself I've yet to get into my stubborn skull that a single shot is just as powerful (if not more) than a burst in this game.

MG's further the "waste" by firing a minimum of (I belive) 9 rounds. That will quickly deplete your ammo if not careful. Really wish MG's had a short burst option aswell.

[Skaldy]

30 minutes ago, Melliores said:

@Skaldy

 

I quite literally shared my own experience, screenshots from my first and only game so far and took stock of my ammo reserves to show a counter-point. That not only I am using different types of weapons, calibers and approaches like you have ( I do use burst from time to time, as well as explosives), my two squads have plenty of ammo reserves. So apparently it is not only down to RNG. My two squads have in total 1000+ rounds in reserve from the calibers you have been missing. 

Oh, I think there is another thing that might help with the ammo issue - I tend to use a lot of militia, instead of defending manually. Militia do not spend any of your ammo.

But let us get back to your previous post - you said that one run you managed to loot a total of 14 M14. Each M14 when loaded carries 20 rounds so that would make 280 rounds. Let us say that you only managed to get half of that - 140 rounds of 7,62 NATO.

That is only from those M14 rifles. Didn't those 140 rounds last a long time? You yourself wrote that you prefer using mainly rifles and staying back. That makes for 140 single rifle shots which is a lot.

In all your 7 games do you run out of the same type of calibers?

@Solaris_Wave

 

In JA3 poor shape can easily be remedied. Even a weapon with 1% durability can be repaired within 12 hours and it will cost you 5-6 parts. So you will be using that plundered weapon on your next day, provided you have the ammo for it. 🙂

Now if they impose a penalty to the max durability such weapons can reach, that might make your suggestion viable. Let us say you can repair them to 50% max durability. However no such restrictions exist currently in the game.

 

Ah, back with more implications. You didnt share any shred of your experience, you just shared "proof" and result of your experience. From pics i can only assume your experience because there is 0 context to it.

I also use militia, auto-resolve. My luck is 1-2 AK47s with assorted loot. After 2nd combat i have to return because there are almost no militias left and it is annoying.

Why are you assuming all m14s are fully loaded?i maybe found 5 fully loaded m14s, rest is full condition with 0 ammo or worse. With crafting and buying i manage make a reserve soviet 7.62 supply. Which ran out after i re-rescued Refugee camp from Legion(again they took it back when i was defending Fleatown) and when i started to do Flay's quest i was dry with 400-500 9mm and only one person left to fire a gun.

i am currently on a new run, while i was playing about 5 minutes ago, i dropped heavy armor 56 percent condition from Bastien's 2nd meeting, shack behind him has his loot. Very strange RNG for early game

[Solaris_Wave]

1 hour ago, Melliores said:

Now if they impose a penalty to the max durability such weapons can reach, that might make your suggestion viable. Let us say you can repair them to 50% max durability. However no such restrictions exist currently in the game.

That was actually another suggestion that I previously had but I didn't say it again here, this time round.

Edited July 21, 2023 by Solaris_Wave

[sandman25dcsss]

Yes, 33 years old is not an argument, especially when you may be the youngest member of the forum 🙂

[GODSPEED]

50 minutes ago, Solaris_Wave said:

I am aware of that but, like I was saying, if in JA3 (not JA2) you could pick up weapons off defeated enemies but they were in poor shape, you wouldn't be able to just use them without problems. By the time better trained and better equipped enemies appear, your desire to pick up such weapons will be less needed.

 

I know it can both challenging and fun to need to think about your fights, using less desirable equipment instead of having the luxury of modern equipment, but it still doesn't make sense why you can't use the ammo the enemy should leave behind. I read elsewhere that the enemy never runs out of ammo. Then, if you kill them all in a firefight, you can't salvage any of it.

Well, unfortunately, I have to disagree with you here. 🍻

But let me explain WHERE I'm coming from first..

JA2
After I don't know how many games I've played of JA2 (with 1.13), I've switched from playing with "Drop All" from yes to NO.

Why? Drop All, although feeling more "realistic", breaks the game and some tactics and "classes" as well. Seriously, you get so many guns, ammo and gear, that even after tweaking the selling % of the sector inventory to 2%, you end up with too much money and too much time wasted in "logistical simulator life" than actually just kitting out your mercs and battles.

What do I mean about "breaking classes"?
Well, one of my fav characters, especially in the first third of my campaign, is Blood (and by extension, Dr. Q). They excel at martial arts and getting close to the enemies. Something I LOVE doing in JA2 1.13 is coming across a battle with some enemies with better gear than mine. THAT alone creates a whole new set of objectives for myself; how do I get that gear, if Drop All is not enabled?

By STEALING it from enemy hands! It can be risky business to get a merc up close to a soldier. But, with baiting, knocking out (martial arts or stun/gas grenade and gas mask) and stealing from his body (before he dies) you can actually get the things you want!

Just THAT part of the gameplay, to myself, is worth turning Drop All OFF. It gives that extra layer of strategy I take into account, and means that mercs like Malice & Blood are effective at something more. If drop all is ON, then what is the drive to actually steal from enemy hands and go through all that trouble of risking mercs when you just gotta shoot the soldier, and he'll drop everythign anyways.


JA3
Now, for JA3... this is where, I guess people will get pissed at me, because I'm going to mention that I want things from JA2 in JA3.

I find they missed a nice opportunity for that added tactical choice. In JA2, a quick and agile merc like Dr. Q is not only useful as a combat medic or person to play "fisty cuffs" with in a gunfight.. but to actually steal from enemies as well.

Is it necessary? Is the game so hard to I would HAVE to resort to that tactic?

A resounding NO!

But, this is supposed to be an RPG. Those are some of the liberties and choices I want to make. ...and wish they had been incorporated.

[Skaldy]

2 minutes ago, sandman25dcsss said:

Yes, 33 years old is not an argument, especially when you may be the youngest member of the forum 🙂

Really? how is it not an argument? Both guys implied that i havent played any previous games, i just gave my age and wrote when i played previous games. That makes my age supporting argument for initial context

[sandman25dcsss]

5 minutes ago, Skaldy said:

Really? how is it not an argument? Both guys implied that i havent played any previous games, i just gave my age and wrote when i played previous games. That makes my age supporting argument for initial context

You said you played it as child so no, not argument for me. Personally I am on your side and would instantly install infinite ammo mod if it was available, but I know ammo management was always very important feature in JA.

Edited July 21, 2023 by sandman25dcsss

[Solaris_Wave]

I understand where you are coming from, @GODSPEED. It is a shame there can't be some sort of middle ground where weapons can be picked up off of fallen enemies, without it leading to becoming overpowered or having too much money from selling everything. That way, you are never left wanting and feeling like a guerrilla, having to pick your battles.

 

5 minutes ago, GODSPEED said:

By STEALING it from enemy hands! It can be risky business to get a merc up close to a soldier. But, with baiting, knocking out (martial arts or stun/gas grenade and gas mask) and stealing from his body (before he dies) you can actually get the things you want!

I can just picture that happening! 😆  Your merc kind of saying to the enemy, "Let me just take that off of you…" All the while the enemy soldier just stands there, perplexed, as his weapon is carefully taken from his hands.

It somehow reminds me of the Pickpocket skill in the Fallout games, where you could prime a grenade or mine and put it in someone's pocket without them knowing, then sneak away before the surprised NPC or enemy gets splattered to the four winds. How on earth they wouldn't be aware of something being placed into their pocket like that!

[GODSPEED]

Guys... common! We clearly don't all agree on the same things, but can we stop the "bickering" arguments? Argue about the game! Not who played what where when how. Nobody gives a 💩 if you're 99.9 years old or you've just come out from your three fathers wombs.

The topic is about the game being GOOD BUT NOT GREAT..

 

While I am enjoying the game, and while I will get some backlash for saying this, while part of the game is (in my opinion) a great Jagged Alliance game, some parts of that kind of fail.

Artistically, I don't see how it could be better. HG have really F'n nailed it in the art department (minus the ui.. needs a little bit of love). This will actually make it harder to go back to JA2 as I will, regardless how good this game is or isn't. Map design, while I could wish for larger maps on the whole, I feel are very nciely hand crafted. For someone with a eye for detail and subtlety, I love the attention they've brought to areas, setting a tone and feel for the situation Grand Chien is facing. I find they did what I like that Bethesda do.. added small pieces of "story" in ares, jsut to make your imagination go: "Oh man! wonder what happened here!?". Love that!!


My negatives are down to mechanics. I don't care what anyone says, JA2 wasn't perfect, no one can say it was. Was the interrupt system perfect? Nope! But it offered more challenge than the overwatch here. Overwatch in this game is clearly OP. Not only that, but the fact that in JA2, you could never be guaranteed you would even get an Interrupt, means that it promoted the idea to not sit back (even though the AI was lame and that's what we ended up doing). Here, Spending equal amount of points to firing a shot, you can Overwatch and get 3 shots from it (in many cases). And to be honest, the AI in this game is no more evolved over the one from JA2. Camping and sitting as you have enemies walk into "guaranteed" cones of fire has brought the game down a serious notch in the joy I get from tactical combat. You can't even set the firemode. At least if overwatch used the same firemode as you last used to fire the weapon, would at least make more sense.

I don't find the tactical side of the game to be an upgrade of JA2, if anything, maybe even a slight downgrade. I AM NOT COMPARING WITH 1.13.. I AM MAKING NO REFERENCE TO 1.13!

I think JA3 feels like an upgrade for JA1 with features and ideas kind of taken from JA2, but with the tactical freedom scraped for a more streamlined modern audience. (I'm saying this from my point of view, just like MY "era" is different from the one that was before me.)

[Xeth Nyrrow]

2 minutes ago, Solaris_Wave said:

I understand where you are coming from, @GODSPEED. It is a shame there can't be some sort of middle ground where weapons can be picked up off of fallen enemies, without it leading to becoming overpowered or having too much money from selling everything. That way, you are never left wanting and feeling like a guerrilla, having to pick your battles.

Actually you can. The way you balance it is by making the enemies use mostly low end weapons at the start then gradually increasing  weapon power the farther you go in to the game either measured by distance, time, or both. This way you can control what the player gains access too. JA2 did this to a degree in addition to not having 100% loot drop.

One draw back is you fight a lot of pistol/SMG enemies and it makes progress feel slow. This gives a feeling of forced, gated progression knowing that you'll never get a really cool gun from a drop for a while. Another is that enemy diversity/power options are lacking as you can't give them better guns but have to rely on numbers, positioning, and map layout to challenge the player. That might sound good on paper but it actually limits the strength of your enemies quite a lot forcing them to only have a chance via cheesy tactics.

As for ammo shortages specifically, as I suggested before maybe they could just increase the ammo drop rate and not the gun drop rate which would help alleviate the situation. Also more ammo crafting locations, including adding one on the starting island, would help.

[Skaldy]

31 minutes ago, sandman25dcsss said:

You said you played it as child so no, not argument for me. Personally I am on your side and would instantly install infinite ammo mod if it was available, but I know ammo management was always very important feature in JA.

i am sorry i am going to disagree with you. Childhood experiences are important, at my work we discuss how tech is destroying human experiences and a result new generations are growing up strangely, one of my lectures i used my childhood exprience(when we didnt have internet and computers) and how we used to cycle around the town to reach library to take books, it was adventure for us, due to effort and extensive time spent most of my colleagues remember books they have read from 20-30 years ago vividly. My students cant even remember an essay they found on google a week ago.

You are right about one thing though, when i played JA2 i didnt speak english. I literally learned english myself to improve my experience and fun.

Edited July 21, 2023 by Skaldy

[Solaris_Wave]

52 minutes ago, Xeth Nyrrow said:

As for ammo shortages specifically, as I suggested before maybe they could just increase the ammo drop rate and not the gun drop rate which would help alleviate the situation. Also more ammo crafting locations, including adding one on the starting island, would help.

That sounds like the best way to compromise. I don't know whether having to deal with an ammo shortage really makes for a better game. As I said before, I know what @GODSPEEDwas referring to and he expressed how he likes the need to conserve his resources and not have an abundance of it, but are players that have a large stock of ammo enjoying the game more than those that are forced to not use their weapons and instead use very dry, sharpened blades of grass?

Edited July 21, 2023 by Solaris_Wave

[GODSPEED]

10 minutes ago, Solaris_Wave said:

That sounds like the best way to compromise. I don't know whether having to deal with an ammo shortage really makes for a better game. As I said before, I know what @GODSPEEDwas referring to and he expressed how he likes the need to conserve his resources and not have an abundance of it, but are players that have a large stock of ammo enjoying the game more than those that are forced to not use their weapons and instead use very dry, sharpened blades of grass?

Guess it depends on the player right.

Personally, I wouldn't find JA really fun without the early part where you are outgunned, outmanned, outmunitioned (lol)... the "survival" aspect of JA2 has always been among my favs. Finding that Ruger Mini-14 in San Mona, or an HK G3 from a terrorist early on... but having to carefully use it and keep it for specific situations calling for that power, is part of the game that I love most.

This design choice, making you THINK before you shoot is something I clearly think is a staple of early game Jagged Alliance. Do I want the entire game like that? Not really.. but I'm only about 30-36 hours in, and I haven't crafted any ammo yet, and while some guns are not stocked with enough ammo for multiple large encounters, learning when I should use what gun for what battle is part of the game that has really given me that much more appreciation for it (I will give credit where credit is due).

Do I think one of the large cities should have a market like you see Somalians go buy some G3's and AK's in Black Hawk Down? Hell yeah!!

Make that a little later. Not early game. Just like when you first walk into Tony's shop. Very limited. Often maybe you might pick up a cheap SMG or Pistol.. but you can't kit and gear up a squad either. Early JA2, even ordering from Bobby is too expensive. Unless you like to sit your squad for days in Airport just to wait for the cheap shipping... just not part of my strategy. I prefer the "living off the land" gameplay.

I'm not swimming in ammunition, but I'm not finding the game so punishing that I can't enter battles and feel deadlocked.

[Skaldy]

4 minutes ago, GODSPEED said:

Guess it depends on the player right.

Personally, I wouldn't find JA really fun without the early part where you are outgunned, outmanned, outmunitioned (lol)... the "survival" aspect of JA2 has always been among my favs. Finding that Ruger Mini-14 in San Mona, or an HK G3 from a terrorist early on... but having to carefully use it and keep it for specific situations calling for that power, is part of the game that I love most.

This design choice, making you THINK before you shoot is something I clearly think is a staple of early game Jagged Alliance. Do I want the entire game like that? Not really.. but I'm only about 30-36 hours in, and I haven't crafted any ammo yet, and while some guns are not stocked with enough ammo for multiple large encounters, learning when I should use what gun for what battle is part of the game that has really given me that much more appreciation for it (I will give credit where credit is due).

Do I think one of the large cities should have a market like you see Somalians go buy some G3's and AK's in Black Hawk Down? Hell yeah!!

Make that a little later. Not early game. Just like when you first walk into Tony's shop. Very limited. Often maybe you might pick up a cheap SMG or Pistol.. but you can't kit and gear up a squad either. Early JA2, even ordering from Bobby is too expensive. Unless you like to sit your squad for days in Airport just to wait for the cheap shipping... just not part of my strategy. I prefer the "living off the land" gameplay.

I'm not swimming in ammunition, but I'm not finding the game so punishing that I can't enter battles and feel deadlocked.

no argument against your logic, i also wouldnt accept JA any other way. But my entire bad experience with the game is result of outdated bad mechanics and too much RNG interference. In 7 play throughs first one was my perfect run, yet i had to quit delete it when i had too much ammunition and large variety of guns(first and last time i found .44 lever action sniper rifle). I had to quit it because a)i didnt pay attention to perks b) i didnt know Biff's quest line was timed. I was interested in that story line and i had no chance to reach him from other side of the map. Later found out how lucky i was and got pissed.

Do I think one of the large cities should have a market like you see Somalians go buy some G3's and AK's in Black Hawk Down? Hell yeah!!

Definitely should be a thing which should be achieved by being certain type of merc and completing a certain quest line to help certain chars to set up shop.

[Solaris_Wave]

That was one thing I always enjoyed about JA2: equipping an early to mid-game rifle of some sort. Instead of having something like an M4 (I know that isn't in the game) or some other high quality weapon that would be used by US military forces, there was an appeal in using something like an SKS, H&K G3 or Mini-14. By the end of the game it made sense to be armed with C7s and Steyr AUGs but it never felt as enjoyable. Using weapons that aren't top tier but still capable of doing the job had a sense of style to it. Having said that, the first time you get your hands on an AUG and there is only one around for a good part of the game, does make it feel like some sort of trophy. Kind of like in Die Hard where most of the bad guys are using MP5 clones (modified HK94s) but only Karl has an AUG.

There were a few guns in the game that were 'nice to have' but never really got to be used as much as I would have liked. Something else would come along soon after to replace it. They made more sense if you were kind of role-playing a needed weapon type (especially if you were choosing between NATO and Warsaw Pact rifles). Also, there was never a case, after the beginning of the game, where I had to switch to another weapon due to lack of ammo for the preferred firearm. There was plenty of ammo around and not often much need to fire in automatic.

[Skaldy]

11 hours ago, Melliores said:

@Skaldy

I get the impression you haven't played any of the previous Jagged Alliance games?

Difficulty - the main source of difficulty always started with which mercs you can hire and what equipment can they bring on the mission. If you could start directly with an AK from the first sector, that makes a huge difference. In Jagged Alliance 3 they kind of overdid it, as new players are not yet aware they shouldn't be spending big before they capture at least one mine. The balancing can be improved, but this is 100% how Jagged Alliance plays - the scarcity of resources, equipment and personnel was always the main hurdle to overcome.

Sat view Ops - they are there to allow to do more than just pass time on the strategic map and are direct legacy from JA2. The crafting and scouting are new additions and can benefit from an extended tutorial, possibly a quest even to introduce those operations to you.

Towns - there are rewards for liberating towns and getting to 100% Loyalty. For example for Pantagruel this allows to control the Fosse Noire mine. Port Cacao opens the Museum for you, as well as the Junk trader. Small things but they do count and give character to each of the towns. Moreover, if you talk to the nameless villagers sometimes they will actually give you a few items and ammo as a reward for liberating the town and resolving its quests. 

Loyalty - apart from mine income and price of training of militia, Loyalty is required to solve quite a few quests or negotiate for extra rewards.

Town defense - this is exactly how it worked back in JA2 with two slight omissions - in JA2 you could actually give orders to militia to move from one town sector to another (within the same town). You could also give weapons on the tactical view to militia members to better arm them. In JA3 when you use the auto-resolve feature with militia, you actually receive more loot and ammo as the game considers none of the weapons to have been fired.

 

@Solaris_Wave
 

It is not pure RNG - Here is what I have in my two principal squads

Charlie squad:

Taking stock :

9x19 mm - 1000+ rounds

7,62x39 mm WP - 1000+ rounds

7,62x51 mm NATO - 300+ rounds and around 500 rounds in Meltdown, who is in separate Heavy weapons squad

12 mm shotgun - 275+ rounds

.44 - 260+ rounds

.50 BMG - 174 rounds

HE rockets - 12

40 mm grenades - 16

Mortar shells - 9

Alpha squad:
 

 

Taking stock :

12 mm shotgun - 95 rounds

.44 - 140 rounds

7,62x39 mm WP - 420+ rounds

7,62x51 NATO - 113 rounds

9x19 mm - 350+ rounds

5,56 mm - 275 rounds

HE rocket - 7

 

I have plenty of ammo, especially 7,62 WP, 7,62 NATO and 9 mm.
I think that some players tend to rely too heavily on burst fire and do not use often Aim or mod their weapons for accuracy.

Here, look at this. This is just after Erni Island, i havent taken the boat to mainland yet. I havent used weapons beside a gewehr, pistols and knives. This much i was able to save. I will update this later with more progress. For context i dropped 4-5 AK47s 3 of them empty. No other weapon drops other than obvious ones like broken gewehrs, pistols and a double barrel shotgun(mg42 is quest item so i am not counting it).

Also, if anyone has manual save after finishing first island how much ammo you had? i want to compare RNGs. Context would be appreciated

Edited July 22, 2023 by Skaldy