After beta streams reactions

[Reloecc]

I leave this topic empty for now.. let's discuss what we saw today here, aye?

[Lunokhod]

Worse than i thought. And now i feel uncomfortable. Now i feel sorry for this guys. U know who the biggest assh*le in this story? Whoever called this JA3. This is the biggest assh*le. If this project got another name - i would say its lame, but its fun. Map designer not a bad guy. Also i love statue with bulldog, its funny, its cute.

[scope112]

 

[scope112]

 

[scope112]

 

[Wigen]

 

[scope112]

My initial impression of the game are quite positive. The game does not feel Xcom like, it retains the combat mechanics of the original Jagged Alliance titles. The maps are well designed and grand in scale. The voiceovers are decently done. I like the new conversation system and the choices it offers. The world seems quite big with plenty of maps, and the maps are also all rather diversified. I also like the atmosphere and music, it fits the 80s-90s era, gives me the vibe of old action movies.

The main concern that I currently have concerns mercenary feedback. The in-game mercenary feedback and interaction is a bit limited, but this may be due to the fact that not all voice-overs are implemented in the game yet. I hope the full release has extensive interactions between mercs and MERC feedback on actions. The relationships and voiceovers are a core feature of the game.

Another concern that I have relates to the management of loot. I couldn't see yet whether there is a type of sector inventory or central point to manage loot. But that may be something that I missed.

Another area for improvement is the lack of an in-game conversation window. Currently, the letters/words are just displayed on the map, making it hard to read/follow. I would prefer it if the devs put it in a box, improving readability.


 

Edited April 18, 2023 by scope112

[scope112]

10 minutes ago, Wigen said:

 

I found this preview to be the worst/least helpful of all released previews. The reviewer has no clue about the Jagged Alliance franchise, and does not understand the atmosphere/positioning of the game. His "preview" does not give you an accurate impression. But yeah, that's IGN for you.

[Lunokhod]

1 minute ago, scope112 said:

I found this preview to be the worst

U right, this guy cant even capture game with good quality.

 

 

 

[Lunokhod]

Listen, guys. U need to add some effects on map. Smoke or dust or something. Something need to move here. Game looks dead without it. It will be much-much better. MORE VFX!!!

Edited April 18, 2023 by Lunokhod

[scope112]

 

[DougS2K]

50 minutes ago, scope112 said:

I found this preview to be the worst/least helpful of all released previews. The reviewer has no clue about the Jagged Alliance franchise, and does not understand the atmosphere/positioning of the game. His "preview" does not give you an accurate impression. But yeah, that's IGN for you.

Well it is IGN. To be honest, I stopped looking at IGN reviews and impressions years ago. 

[Wigen]

 

[Reloecc]

What I don't like:

• enemy repositioning on combat start :: this must go away asap imo, it totally breaks ambushes, tactical approach, map searching and everything! how am I supposed to plan an attack, when enemies have free run when I attack them?
• unlimitted throwing knives :: heard there is aim merc with such perk, not confirmed, that's wild (bad way)
• overwatch :: takes away an opportunity to do anything else than shooting on interrupts.. interrupts works very differenty (as what I saw)
• ap reduction of wounded soldiers :: wounded mercs/enemies are not suppresed greatly but being nearly dead
• barry pooping granades :: is it a mario game?
• fighters going out of cover completetly when shooting :: half-covers could be shoot over, for full covers soldiers could just peak; current animation is universal, doesn't break gameplay, but looks verdy weird
• inventory :: seeing 2/10 granades is unnatural, seems like igor could carry 110 granades; erm..
• inventory :: squad inventory (where the ammo is stored and reachable from any distance) is not tactical
• granades :: there are conic shaped explosions (stupid?), and granades are sure to hit.. because CtH is not present, one of the streamers were using granades as much as he could just because it was only way to be sure it hits.. T_T
• 2d character cartoon representation :: some poses and faces are such unpleasant (including fox, if you doubt x)
• particular perks :: like armor pene, that doesn't represent mercenary skill but only represents game mechanic (there is nothing merc could train to increase armor penetration of bullets shot be him)

 

What I doubt:

• how do "all enemies move at the start of a round at once" goes along with interrupts?
• run and shoot :: is it ap cost effective? why it's here? if there is no target to shoot, it still cost same ap?
• free aim :: can't shoot distant targets out of range - why? why the popup? just let me shoot 
• ap costs :: having ~10 ap clamps possibilites vastly.. there is simply not enough scale to differentiate actions
• enemy repositioning on combat start :: do the alert system works for every enemy you uncover in vicinity? so more I see of them, more of them will come? That's opposite of what it should be.. definitely. If I see more enemies, I should be more prepared (less surprised).
• looting herbs :: really? just cutting some leaves to heal deep shots? not sure about this..

 

What I like:

• repairing, condition management
• healing, max hp management
• environment, map design
• sector map with operations :: ux could be less controller friendly, I get why it's need to be like this, but I am still satisfied that it's essencial
• weapon modifications :: even I would rather not see all options, so I'll get more excited as game progress
• humour :: could be little refined, but it's there for good

Edited April 18, 2023 by Reloecc

[Solaris_Wave]

Good to see the video. On the whole, what is there is positive. However, I would make the following points:

• I mentioned this before but that blood effect is huge, especially if the character is still able to carry on after it. The actual appearance of it is ok, I just think it needs reducing in size and scale.
• This might just be the video but I didn't see anybody laying prone, only crouching. Hopefully, the ability to lie prone hasn't been removed!
• The idle animations look a little too active. Everyone is constantly moving around on the spot as if they have had one too many drinks. Maybe the idle movements could be slowed down or spaced out just a little further from one another. That way, each mercenary doesn't look like they are constantly fidgeting.
• Add a slight bit of random timing to the posture change of the mercs when selected as a group. In the video, they all crouched at the exact same time, making them look less like individuals following a command or instinct, and more like a collectively linked hive mind, all performing the same action simultaneously.
• A little more reaction if an explosive weapon goes off next to someone. I saw two cases where an explosion occurred next to a person and they just stood there, with the blood and wound points but no actual real reaction. They don't have to fall over unless they have specifically done so as a game action, as that would affect their following turn. I am thinking more of a sway or stumble animation but nevertheless allowing them to continue as normal, unless they have been specifically affected enough to fall, be stunned or incapacitated to affect their further turns.
• Will grenades and explosives that go off next to someone affect them if they remain standing and able to fight, other than causing wounds? Will such munitions cause a temporary stun due to the blast? I don't mean actual stun grenades like Flashbangs but High Explosive fragmentation munitions?

[Solaris_Wave]

I have only seen the short video posted here by @Wigen and not the full beta video, but reading the above concerns, am I to understand that enemies get free movement at the start of combat like in the XCOM reboot (like them being able to move as soon as they are spotted)? If that is true, that idea needs to be removed ASAP. I thought that was just one of the many negatives that the XCOM reboot had. That game should not be taken as inspiration.

[Elder III]

I have not had time to watch/read everything yet, but from the one article/review I had time to go over, it does feel like they are trying to capture the overall feel of the old JA1/JA2 games. I'm personally feeling quite optimistic right now. 🙂

[Solaris_Wave]

After looking at more of the videos in this thread, I have added these points:

• I couldn't tell precisely but I saw what looked like two scenes of revolvers being fired (Steroid and Fox?). After the shot was fired, a casing was ejected. That shouldn't happen. Almost all revolvers don't automatically eject spent casings. The ones that do are rare and probably late 19th Century.
• Are there any sounds from the enemies when getting shot, such as expression of pain? How about the shot that kills them? I didn't hear any in those videos.
• Enemies need to visibly react when getting shot, such as flinching.
• Enemies show text on the screen when reacting to combat but how about the occasional audible speech as well. That would make them feel more alive.
• Raven's Browning Hi-Power had a 15 round magazine. It should have a 13 round mag and then one extra possibly loaded in the chamber at the start of combat or after a tactical reload.
• When characters move through pools of water, will there eventually be splashes of water, both visually and audibly?
• An enemy who was listed as 'Almost Dead' did a crouching roll. Maybe such animations could be left out for those with low health. Maybe another animation like stumbling or clutching their body while moving. If someone is listed as Almost Dead, they need to act like it.
• Death animations of characters falling to the ground is good but I would like to also see variable speeds of that collapsing to the ground. Sometimes, an enemy could fall quicker, especially if they were in the middle of running when you finished them off.

Edited April 18, 2023 by Solaris_Wave

[WILDFIRE]

I have to be totally honest, I have mixed feelings. The world and music are really lovely and detailed. But I do not get the JA flair when I look at the characters. All the cartoony and colorful lifeless faces kill most of the JA atmosphere for me.

 

Now I know what the problem is. It feels like an interactive comic with cartoony heroes. But the JA world is not colorful or cartoony when you think about JA2. It is a tough mostly realistic world and this extremely colorful cartoony art does not fit very well. 

 

Also the UI and combat camera angles scream nuXCOM. The UI is so clean and simplified that it feels like a console or mobile title. The voice acting is ok but in combination with the lifeless faces/portraits I can not get the special JA atmosphere. All that feels a little bit soulless. Sorry to be honest here but that are my impressions so far.

[Reloecc]

1 hour ago, Solaris_Wave said:

Good to see the video. On the whole, what is there is positive. However, I would make the following points:

After looking at more of the videos in this thread, I have added these points:

I like your points.. they are on spot. But lot of them (if not all) are just about the game being beta currently. I am very sure there is a lot changes going to happen about animations, sounds and enemy reactions before a release. 🙂

[Reloecc]

2 hours ago, Solaris_Wave said:

I have only seen the short video posted here by @Wigen and not the full beta video, but reading the above concerns, am I to understand that enemies get free movement at the start of combat like in the XCOM reboot (like them being able to move as soon as they are spotted)? If that is true, that idea needs to be removed ASAP. I thought that was just one of the many negatives that the XCOM reboot had. That game should not be taken as inspiration.

Exactly what is happening. You can see enemies and approach them if they are not aware of your presence. But as soon as you shoot one or alert them anyhow, they all get free move and run towards covers.

[votadc]

5 hours ago, Reloecc said:

What I don't like:

• enemy repositioning on combat start :: this must go away asap imo, it totally breaks ambushes, tactical approach, map searching and everything! how am I supposed to plan an attack, when enemies have free run when I attack them?

They took that from Xcom, I think they should be able to react only if they have higher level than player's mercs. Even Shadow Tactics that is real time have the simultaneus attack.

[BossWeapons]

I'm quite excited myself. The game looks a lot better than I thought it would. The only things I'd be nagging about are some minor visual things, mainly animations. Something about how the mercs run outside of combat, for example, looks very goofy to me. I'm also one of those people who keep complaining about Unity as a game engine, but it is what it is. I also don't know if I like the X-COM esque "Enemies get a free turn to reposition when the fight starts" thing. Not because I think the game looks like X-COM. I just dislike the mechanic since it can get pretty annoying/unfair when you have the perfect ambush going on and then the enemies get a sudden get out of the jail for free card when one of them spots a dude. Still I think the game looks pretty neat and seems to play well. I can't wait to try it out myself once it's finally released.

[BossWeapons]

21 minutes ago, BossWeapons said:

The only things I'd be nagging about are some minor visual things, mainly animations. Something about how the mercs run outside of combat, for example, looks very goofy to me.

Have to quote myself because I can't edit the post anymore.

But, yeah. The movement animations are kinda placeholdery looking when the characters do that weird sprint run. There are good looking movement mixed in there as well, little dives, crouch moving while covering from side to side weapon at the ready etc. But with that one, I can almost hear the cartoon tippy-tappy-tippy-tappy sound from Tom and Jerry when they run.

I also wish the mercs would be more dynamic while taking cover behind things. I mean instead of just standing in place they could position themselves better to fit the cover they're in for example. Give little peeks around the corner and so on. That's one thing I think the devs should steal from the modern X-COM games.

Edited April 19, 2023 by BossWeapons

[Specky]

What irks me the most is the animation of the damage values which appear after a merc/goon is shot. 

 

In JA2 the numbers are small, and drift upwards away from the character, leaving the character animation and model fully visible. It's more realistic, it isn't imposing and draws you into engaging with the game and not numbers. The font used is also consistent with the rest of the UI text/dialogue.

 

What we saw from the beta, GIANT RED numbers covering the whole character model. It makes it too cartoony/arcadey and takes away from the realism and grit that was the main draw of JA2. I don't understand the choice behind this, especially as this release allows the graphics/animations to be of a higher quality, so why hide them?

 

There was a turn-based tactical squad game a bit like JA2 from the 2000's on the PC that allowed you to control individual German solider's, anyone remember the name? Had exactly the same font and style for damage feedback, I couldn't stand it then and the lack of realism it emotes.

 

Something that takes away from the grit is how light it is, understandable given this is set on a "tropical" island. But generally it just doesn't feel dark enough, the darkness of JG2 is what allowed the comedy to really cut through and be more effective, there was a balance in tone, contrast.  Where's the shadow pole in JG3?