After beta streams reactions

[Lunokhod]

32 minutes ago, Specky said:

What we saw from the beta, GIANT RED numbers covering the whole character model. It makes it too cartoony/arcadey and takes away from the realism and grit that was the main draw of JA2.

Jesus Christ man... Numbers... Whole game is made in cartoon style.

[Zwolf]

I think the game looks great, beautiful looking game world, especially during night time. The traits and perks seem like an interesting addition. Anyways, looking forward to play it, hope it will run well on the steam deck.😀

[Acid]

15 hours ago, DougS2K said:

Well it is IGN. To be honest, I stopped looking at IGN reviews and impressions years ago. 

I stopped giving a crap about what the big reviewers say, look at the smaller individual review sites/channels.

[Bloodcat]

4 hours ago, BossWeapons said:

Have to quote myself because I can't edit the post anymore.

But, yeah. The movement animations are kinda placeholdery looking when the characters do that weird sprint run. There are good looking movement mixed in there as well, little dives, crouch moving while covering from side to side weapon at the ready etc. But with that one, I can almost hear the cartoon tippy-tappy-tippy-tappy sound from Tom and Jerry when they run.

I also wish the mercs would be more dynamic while taking cover behind things. I mean instead of just standing in place they could position themselves better to fit the cover they're in for example. Give little peeks around the corner and so on. That's one thing I think the devs should steal from the modern X-COM games.

 

I really do not understand, how this could happen. It should not be that hard to get some normal looking running animations.

It may be cost saving to spend less time on those things, but it is so hard to overlook, that i always would be annoyed playing the game. It even would help a little to just slow the running a bit down.

For other parts, like the poor character design in many cases, i just hope, that modding is possible, not only for the portraits.

[Hendrix]

A whole bunch (all?) of these are repeats of others comments but anyway...

Overall it does not look like a bad game by itself, but to me it looks a bit to over the top and happy go lucky compared to JA2.

Likes

The overall esthetic of the game looks good, early 2000 style for the laptop etc.

The sectors and environment themselves looks very good. The game has good graphics.

The music sounds good of what little I heard.

I think the dialogue interface looks fine.

I thought the repair/doctoring interface in the strategic layer looked fine.

The voice acting in itself sounds good, varied and professional. 

Destructible enviorments.

Time of day, weather and environment has gameplay effects.

 

Dislikes

I get a Farcry'ish (3, 4) feeling of the mercs, npcs and enemies. I would like them a bit more grounded and realistic.

The gameplay I saw figured mostly of Raven, Grizzly, MD and Steroid. Grizzly sounds like an entirely different character and very different attitude compared to JA2 where he had a very aggressive soundset, now I think he just sounds like a bit of a show off. For Raven I would have wished for a bit darker/deeper voice. MD was OK. I get it that finding a voice actor that sounds just the same is impossible but I think they could have gotten a little bit closer. 

The animations are a bit to cartoon-ish.

Many of the mercs portraits on the AIM site looked like they were taking selfies. I also think many of the mercs looks younger than in JA2.

Maybe the Legion enemies I saw were just "yellowshirt level" but they did not look like soldiers at all just thugs. I hope this is true and the "red shirts" on the mainland looks like they belong in an actual army. I mean in JA2 the yellow shirts were pushovers. The red shirts would indeed give you a hard time if you wasn't careful and the black shirts were scary because you knew they would put you in a really difficult situation if given the slightest chance.

The game (or atleast the particular build I saw) had a odd responsivnes. A grenade went of among a bunch of unsuspecting enemies and one continued walking like nothing happened despite taking damage and the others just stood there like they were waiting for the buss. It would look really good if enemies/mercs would fall down etc when taking this kind of damage.

I guess this is an effect of the switch between realtime and turnbased. The grenade and explosion taking effect in realtime and after that turnbased starts. Maybe the turnbased should kick in as soon as the grenade was thrown so the effects of the grenade could occure looking more natural?

In another sceen a merc kills enemy A and then continues to shot at enemy B, efter shooting at enemy B the merc comments on killing enemy A. The comment felt a bit of by then since it occurred so late. This type of late comments occurred several times.

Enemies made zero sounds when injured, this takes away the severity of damage dealt. Might not be implemented yet.

I think the 10 or so actionpoints/round is way to low to differentiate guns and actions.

I really think having "Almost dead animations" should be a thing. It looked very severe in JA2 when a merc or enemy were walking around holding their side and almost dragging their rifle behind them.

I think the guns could use a more aggressive sound, really dislike that the revolver and bolt action rifle used the same sound. Maybe just a place holder.

Unsure of the weapon progression so far. Looked like you could get rifles at a very early stage. I also hope for a bit more different gun variations.

Missed a whole bunch of mercs. Spider, Static, Lynx, Trevor, Cliff, Danny, Bull, Malice, Buzz, Stephen. I probably missed someone. I hope atleast some of them will get added eventually and they haven't been killed of.

The enemies free move is very nuXCOM. Just like XCOM2 the way to deal with this is to set up overwatch ambushes in stealth and then go for a kill shot on one of the enemies and therby triggered overwatch on the rest while they are scrambling for cover. Of course you try to set up ambushes in JA2 aswell but you could not get as close as displayed in the gameplay I saw of JA3. I would really prefear the interupt system from JA2 instead. 

There's definitely more things +/- but they skip my mind at the moment.

To many "flavor" things for me to get hyped for the game but there seams to be a solid base that could lead to something really good if given enough time and resources.

I don't know how far off a release of the game is, if it is this summer as someone stated I am afraid there is not enough time to polish and tweak things right (unless the build we got to see was really really old). I hope the game is still far of, at the very earliest the end if this year.

[Hendrix]

3 hours ago, Specky said:

There was a turn-based tactical squad game a bit like JA2 from the 2000's on the PC that allowed you to control individual German solider's, anyone remember the name?

Silent Storm?

[Grim]

12 minutes ago, Hendrix said:

Maybe the Legion enemies I saw were just "yellowshirt level" but they did not look like soldiers at all just thugs. I hope this is true and the "red shirts" on the mainland looks like they belong in an actual army. I mean in JA2 the yellow shirts were pushovers. The red shirts would indeed give you a hard time if you wasn't careful and the black shirts were scary because you knew they would put you in a really difficult situation if given the slightest chance.

My understanding is, legion guys are actually thugs the major gave weapons and basic training. They are not professionnal troops. Maybe there are real soldiers further into the land.

[Acid]

36 minutes ago, Hendrix said:

Dislikes

The animations are a bit to cartoon-ish.

I really think having "Almost dead animations" should be a thing. It looked very severe in JA2 when a merc or enemy were walking around holding their side and almost dragging their rifle behind them.

 

I agree with the lack of wounded animation, some blood dripping on the ground when they walk or limping animation would be good. 

You severely wound the arm or leg it effects how they use the weapon and how they move.

I wonder if the bodies will remain on the ground, and when you come back to the sector they're still there with birds pecking at their remains? or is that to much to ask. 

Edited April 19, 2023 by Acid

[WILDFIRE]

I wanted to add to my post that when I talk about interactive comic I mean all the conversations with the NPCs or story characters. It feels like a picture book and not like a real lively conversation. The animated faces from JA2 are really missing. But there are also many great elements in the Beta that I wanted to point out. The detailed animated character models, the sound design, music, weather, stealth mode and reactive game world are simply amazing. You can find my whole feedback in the latest dev diary.

Edited April 19, 2023 by WILDFIRE

[Lunokhod]

34 minutes ago, Hendrix said:

I don't know how far off a release of the game is, if it is this summer as someone stated I am afraid there is not enough time to polish and tweak things right (unless the build we got to see was really really old). I hope the game is still far of, at the very earliest the end if this year.

I think they want to release it as quickly they can and forget like a bad dream. U know what, if they did good looking isometric game it would be easier to do for them and it would be more successful. Alot of u guys want something like JA2 HD 1.13. Something like isometric simulator of combat. What they did now - its a very strange project. I just dont get it. And most of people dont get it.

Actually i think that JA should left TBS genre. I dont know how. Mb with elements of TBS. TBS - is a very old genre, its good only for mobile games right now. It must be very violant game with very good scenario and dark humor. Not cartoonish. Thats how i see it. I dont see JA like a game about caricature characters, its strange characters for zoomers. They was just a military guys(most of them) in JA2. Yes, many had their own charm, but they are not like characters from Apex Legends or something. I want that the game moving with time. But i dont know exactly how and mb im wrong. Its just my vision.

[scope112]

After reviewing the beta content in greater depth, I found the following points to be disappointing and requiring significant improvement:

1) Lack of Morale & Energy: The devs have simplified gameplay by giving MERCS only have a health bar. This means that your mercs can no longer be stunned. There is also no longer a morale bar that is subject to change as your MERC kills enemies, has friends/enemies on his/her team, speed of progress, and other factors that influence morale.

2) Art Style: The characters look too cartoony. The art style fits more in line with Fortnite rather than a Jagged Alliance title.

3) Lack of animated faces: Without animated faces the MERCS and NPCs just feel sterile, they have no emotion attached to them. In JA1 and JA2, you could see them speak, sleep, get hurt, be angry, etc. All these expressions made you (the player) feel attached to your MERCS and NPCs.

4) Lack of MERC interaction: the build shows limited interaction among mercs. Also, MERCs do not give much feedback to actions, such as killing enemies, picking up items, and other actions. Compared to JA2, the level of interaction seems to have declined. However, the current build did not yet include all voicelines, so I hope that this is the reason. 

5) Flawed AP System: The new AP system has a maximum of 12 points instead of 25 (as in JA1 and JA2). With the new AP system, there is a lack of differentiation between firing small (lighter) guns versus big (heavier) guns. Also, it limits strategic planning, because all actions more or less consume the same amount of points. Furthermore, it seems that all MERCs have the same amount of action points, indicating that dexterity and health no longer impact your MERC's action points. This suggests that the game mechanics are simplified, which is not a step in the right direction.

6) Lack of item weight / Simplified Inventory system: Items appear to not have any weight stats, but rather just consume 1 or 2 inventory slots. With the lack of weight stats, the importance of the "Strength" attribute is decreased, making it irrelevant to  hire stronger MERCs.

7) Excessive MERC grunting: When your MERCs are climbing rocks, they excessively grunt/moan. Sometimes it's so bad that you think you're listening to an adult video, rather than playing an action TBS game.

8 ) Lack of IMP Customization: The current build has very few portraits/characters to choose from for your IMP character. More options are needed so that players can choose a portrait that somewhat resembles their own features.

9) Lack of bullet ballistics: Bullets are accounted as hit/miss. Bullets no longer travel unexpected trajectories, causing unexpected events to occur. For instance, in JA2, your bullet might miss its target, but then travel 30 meters further, and hit a gas can, causing a part of a building to explode. It seems that JA3's current mechanics do not allow for such events to occur, which is really a shame. It's the level of detail in JA2 that made the game so beloved among its long-term fans.

10) Lack of Free aiming mode: Your MERCs can no longer just randomly shoot objects/the ground/NPCs. Each time you would like to aim freely, you are prompted with a "Free Aiming" confirmation box. As the player I want freedom of choice, not be restricted by the game whether I can take the shot or not.

11) Lack of wound/hit feedback: Your mercs and enemies do not give any audio/visual feedback to getting hit by a bullet. Enemies just soak up the bullets, you never hear them being in pain. Also, your mercs do not appear to give any audio/visual cues of enduring pain.

12) Lack of bleeding: In JA2, your MERCs would continue to bleed until being bandaged. In JA3, it seems that being hit just results in a decrease of HP, but not continued bleeding.


These were some of the glaring points that I found. I will later check the content again to see whether I have more suggestions for the devs.
 

[Wigen]

The game will come out and it will be time for patches and hotfixes.

[WILDFIRE]

@scope112: I agree with you 100%. All these points need to be fixed by the devs. The combination of the very colorful cartoony art with the lifeless portraits/conversations really kill the JA atmosphere for me. I hope this can be improved also color technical so that the game and the characters will get a more serious tone.

[Bloodcat]

Martial Arts animations did not made it into the game, also dual wield pistols seem to be missing. For my taste, a false economy, saving money on some animations, that could make the game more special.

[Bloodcat]

43 minutes ago, WILDFIRE said:

@scope112: I agree with you 100%. All these points need to be fixed by the devs. The combination of the very colorful cartoony art with the lifeless portraits/conversations really kill the JA atmosphere for me. I hope this can be improved also color technical so that the game and the characters will get a more serious tone.

I dont think, that the colours will do it really, because running around with mercs in this outfits will still be out of place.

I like the fact, that they are looking different, but also a guy like Ice looks strange.

 

[Lunokhod]

1 hour ago, scope112 said:

3) Lack of animated faces: Without animated faces the MERCS and NPCs just feel sterile, they have no emotion attached to them. In JA1 and JA2, you could see them speak, sleep, get hurt, be angry, etc. All these expressions made you (the player) feel attached to your MERCS and NPCs.

Jesus Christ... its JA... not a Tamagotchi or Sims...

No one will animate faces, forget about it. Say thanks if they fix all this mess in combat.

1 hour ago, scope112 said:

2) Art Style: The characters look too cartoony. The art style fits more in line with Fortnite rather than a Jagged Alliance title.

Deal with it.

1 hour ago, scope112 said:

8 ) Lack of IMP Customization: The current build has very few portraits/characters to choose from for your IMP character. More options are needed so that players can choose a portrait that somewhat resembles their own features

Have you ever thought that people get into the game to forget their own reality?

Sometimes I feel like I'm in kindergarten here.

[LXant]

Considering all the (failed) attempts at making a worthy JA successor after JA2, I really like the results so far. Especially that they included I.M.P.; not having your own merc was probably my major complaint initially.

I suspect it helps that I generally like the style of XCOM2, which isn't a sentiment everyone shares as far as I'm aware. I was optimistic about the game at first, but now I'm convinced that we'll get a genuinely good strategy game and not a shameless money grab.

The only thing that I'd love to see expanded at some point is more customization for your mercs, not just the three equipment slots. Having ballistic goggles, a helmet, equipment for night and thermal vision, maybe a bandana for good measure, isn't done justice by having just one simple slot "head". Same for body armor and legs, a single slot is not much - unless, of course, we get very in-depth customizing with every armor/equipment item we find, not just weapons. Then I'm happy here.

That aside, a high degree of visual customization would also be welcome. Again, I know XCOM2 isn't liked by anyone, but the visual customization options in that game are absolute top tier and gave a huge amount of freedom. I could sink hours in it, I think it added a lot to the game.

Anyway, the previews are great, Haemimont did a great job so far.

[LoboNocturno]

Who wants to watch more gameplay JA3 footages of the BETA version, come to Twitch right now and watch Cringer as he is playing on live.

 

https://www.twitch.tv/cringer

Edited April 19, 2023 by LoboNocturno

[Acid]

32 minutes ago, LXant said:

That aside, a high degree of visual customization would also be welcome. Again, I know XCOM2 isn't liked by anyone, but the visual customization options in that game are absolute top tier and gave a huge amount of freedom. I could sink hours in it, I think it added a lot to the game.

Anyway, the previews are great, Haemimont did a great job so far.

I agree on the visual customization showing the armour and equipment on the merc, but I understand why they didn't show it, so everyone doesn't end up looking the same, their suppose to look like a 80's action hero. Maybe have it as an option?

 

Also Is there free aim?, so we can target gas tanks or other things in the environment, maybe a rope that's holding something heavy so it drops on the enemy or a gas tank near a group of enemy. 

[Reloecc]

3 hours ago, scope112 said:

1) Lack of Morale & Energy: 

6) With the lack of weight stats.

9) Lack of bullet ballistics: It seems that JA3's current mechanics do not allow for such events to occur

1) morale is in

6) strength stat determines amount of slots merc has in the backpack

9) bullets are allowed to mistarget, and they even ricotchet from hard surface or penetrate the soft one

just so you know..

[Lunokhod]

28 minutes ago, Acid said:

their suppose to look like a 80's action hero

No theyre not supposed to look like "80's action heros". And theyre not looking like "80's action heros".

45 minutes ago, Acid said:

but I understand why they didn't show it

No.

1 hour ago, LXant said:

Especially that they included I.M.P.; not having your own merc was probably my major complaint initially.

Jesus... IMP the most important thing for u about JA? But... I just dont understand... Its like average merc u know. Only one good thing about him - he is cheap. Never took this assh*le.

[Raeven]

There's been a lot of talk about things that haven't carried over from JA2, but it's worth noting that I saw a whole lot of things in the previews that JA2 lacked which I think are pretty cool.

For one thing, there are actual conversations now, and I even saw a tooltip which mentioned that a certain perk would affect conversation options. That's pretty cool, and much deeper RPG gameplay than JA2 had. I'm also just seeing a lot more interaction with NPCs in general.

I also saw an instance of a downed vehicle in the game world and a pop up that said a character failed a mechanical check when interacting with it. 

There has been a ton of comparisons between this game and XCOM, but I'm seeing a ton of influence from CRPGs like wasteland 3 in these sorts of elements, which I personally think is a welcome addition to the series. I'm not expecting Fallout levels of conversation trees, but a little goes a long way.

[DougS2K]

4 hours ago, scope112 said:

After reviewing the beta content in greater depth, I found the following points to be disappointing and requiring significant improvement:

1) Lack of Morale & Energy: The devs have simplified gameplay by giving MERCS only have a health bar. This means that your mercs can no longer be stunned. There is also no longer a morale bar that is subject to change as your MERC kills enemies, has friends/enemies on his/her team, speed of progress, and other factors that influence morale.

2) Art Style: The characters look too cartoony. The art style fits more in line with Fortnite rather than a Jagged Alliance title.

3) Lack of animated faces: Without animated faces the MERCS and NPCs just feel sterile, they have no emotion attached to them. In JA1 and JA2, you could see them speak, sleep, get hurt, be angry, etc. All these expressions made you (the player) feel attached to your MERCS and NPCs.

4) Lack of MERC interaction: the build shows limited interaction among mercs. Also, MERCs do not give much feedback to actions, such as killing enemies, picking up items, and other actions. Compared to JA2, the level of interaction seems to have declined. However, the current build did not yet include all voicelines, so I hope that this is the reason. 

5) Flawed AP System: The new AP system has a maximum of 12 points instead of 25 (as in JA1 and JA2). With the new AP system, there is a lack of differentiation between firing small (lighter) guns versus big (heavier) guns. Also, it limits strategic planning, because all actions more or less consume the same amount of points. Furthermore, it seems that all MERCs have the same amount of action points, indicating that dexterity and health no longer impact your MERC's action points. This suggests that the game mechanics are simplified, which is not a step in the right direction.

6) Lack of item weight / Simplified Inventory system: Items appear to not have any weight stats, but rather just consume 1 or 2 inventory slots. With the lack of weight stats, the importance of the "Strength" attribute is decreased, making it irrelevant to  hire stronger MERCs.

7) Excessive MERC grunting: When your MERCs are climbing rocks, they excessively grunt/moan. Sometimes it's so bad that you think you're listening to an adult video, rather than playing an action TBS game.

8 ) Lack of IMP Customization: The current build has very few portraits/characters to choose from for your IMP character. More options are needed so that players can choose a portrait that somewhat resembles their own features.

9) Lack of bullet ballistics: Bullets are accounted as hit/miss. Bullets no longer travel unexpected trajectories, causing unexpected events to occur. For instance, in JA2, your bullet might miss its target, but then travel 30 meters further, and hit a gas can, causing a part of a building to explode. It seems that JA3's current mechanics do not allow for such events to occur, which is really a shame. It's the level of detail in JA2 that made the game so beloved among its long-term fans.

10) Lack of Free aiming mode: Your MERCs can no longer just randomly shoot objects/the ground/NPCs. Each time you would like to aim freely, you are prompted with a "Free Aiming" confirmation box. As the player I want freedom of choice, not be restricted by the game whether I can take the shot or not.

11) Lack of wound/hit feedback: Your mercs and enemies do not give any audio/visual feedback to getting hit by a bullet. Enemies just soak up the bullets, you never hear them being in pain. Also, your mercs do not appear to give any audio/visual cues of enduring pain.

12) Lack of bleeding: In JA2, your MERCs would continue to bleed until being bandaged. In JA3, it seems that being hit just results in a decrease of HP, but not continued bleeding.


These were some of the glaring points that I found. I will later check the content again to see whether I have more suggestions for the devs.
 

Just to clarify a few points.

1. There is a morale system and energy system but it's not prominent like it was in JA2. The slumped over icon next to portraits indicates that they are tired and need rest. They rest on their own now instead of having to set them to sleep which is not a change I like. I prefer setting them to sleep myself.

9. Bullets can miss and hit something behind the enemy or just off screen.

12. There is bleeding that will require bandaging but it's rare to happen.

I agree with the rest of your points/assessment.

[DougS2K]

1 hour ago, Acid said:

Also Is there free aim?, so we can target gas tanks or other things in the environment, maybe a rope that's holding something heavy so it drops on the enemy or a gas tank near a group of enemy. 

Yes there is free aim.

[Specky]

8 hours ago, Hendrix said:

Silent Storm?

That's the one. It reminds me of that.