New combat system...

[shadoww]

hello i dont understand a few things can someone help me with that?

- whenever i see an enemy the game always starts a turn. i mean i expect it is my turn but i have something like 2 seconds to shoot someone before their turn starts which is really annoying. when this game become for gamers who have fastest mouse skills? i mean i have only 2 seconds after i see an enemy in these 2 seconds i have to aim then click 2 times for better aim then change fire mode to burst and start shotting. is any of you can do this?

- the other thing i shoot an enemy and right after that game starts a turn. i can not escape with my merc. for example i am sniping enemy with suspensor but right after i shoot, 5 guys directly know my place and starts to run towards me even they shoot and hit me. game doesnt let me excape after shoot. what to do in this situation?

so how can i hit them and run to cover before game starts forced turn?

- last thing i have mouse for sneaking but right after i get direct view of an enemy who looks directly opposite of me can see me from 20 tiles. are there anyone plays with sneaking style?

[Stuurminator]

Are you sure your characters are actually hidden? By default, the shortcut to enter hidden mode is "H". Otherwise, your mercenaries are just moving about in plain view.

[shadoww]

stealth is not working when you get close to enemy like 10 tiles you become unhidden. i have mouse she is mediocre with ranged. i need to get close to enemy then kill him with silenced weapons but this is impossible i guess. enemies can see 360 degree if you get close to them like less then 10-15 tiles.

i think i need to send her out and get raven for this overwatch thing. the game is not playable without overwatch.

Edited July 21, 2023 by shadoww

[Jaywalker]

You must be doing something wrong, even in broad daylight you get ample time to sneak up on enemies and land a melee hit, or just shoot them.

[shadoww]

for the first time before they got alerted yes but right after you kill someone game doesnt let you have your turn and you end up with 0 AP so enemies run towards you and hit and kill you. why dont we have our turn after first shot i dont understand. i mean in ja2 you were not using AP when there is no turn. in this game if you hit someone you before they got alerted you lose your whole AP and reveal yourself to the enemy.

Edited July 21, 2023 by shadoww

[GODSPEED]

1 minute ago, shadoww said:

for the first time before they got alerted yes but right after you kill someone game doesnt let you have your turn and you end up with 0 AP so enemies run towards you and hit and kill you. why dont we have our turn after first shot i dont understand. i mean in ja2 you were not using AP when there is no turn. in this game if you hit someone you lose your whole AP and reveal yourself to the enemy.

The sneaking and stealth system is already very easy/forgiving.

You need to make GOOD use of it if you want to not become cattle manure after taking a stealth kill.

A stealth kill, if you are detected, is the same thing as if you would have paused and started turn-base combat and taken a full turn (nearly). I think this is a conscious decision to make sure that stealth isn't overly OP (although it still feels a little OP).

When you want to make stealth kills, then you must play the game like if you were playing Commandos (you remember those "old" games?).

Make sure that the enemy is VERY secluded. If he is even 5-6 squares away, another enemy might HEAR the stealth kill (he would "hear" the guy falling down, gun falling on the ground, a yell, etc..). So, go around the map, scout it and the enemies, and if you don't see any real options to create multiple stealth kills, then you will simply batte like normal. At that point, you should try to position your merc for the stealth kill towards an enemy you really want out of the battle, or at least somewhere he won't be swarmed within the first turn.

[Skaldy]

-it sounds like you are detected, when you are sneaking look at your character portraits. There is a red detection bar, if it fills up they see you. SO when you enter a map select all characters and press H, this will prompt everyone to sneak then you can move around and test detection.

-it sounds like you spent all AP with that character, hence you got stuck. My best advice for you, hire Fox, give her sniper rifle with silencer. Take your shot from far away, outside of detection range. When combat starts, due to Fox's unique perk, she will restore all her AP back to full and you can take another shot. This way you can clear 2 men patrols around the map without raising alarm. Be careful though when you kill someone, any enemy with direct line of sight to killed guy will raise the alarm. If there is a wall between them, enemies can hear sound and raise the alarm so check the map with your best stealth guy first.

-i dont know Mouse's stats, but in general Agility and perks govern sneaking and stealth kills. For example i created my own character with these stats and perks for maximum stealth kills:

Health 80

Agility 80

Dexterity 80

Strength 80

Wisdom 60

Perks:CQC Training(huge buff to accuracy if you are using knife take downs from behind or just silenced gun at close range)

Stealthy: Basically gives you more time to move around, enemies detect you dramatically slower. Gives small buff to stealth kills.

And last thing when you are sneaking, click on enemy, you will see Red Skull with some bars under it. That roughly tells you your chance to make a stealth kill. This custom character i wrote about, usually has maximum stealth kill chance.

I hope this helps you.

Edited July 21, 2023 by Skaldy

[BossWeapons]

14 hours ago, shadoww said:

hello i dont understand a few things can someone help me with that?

- whenever i see an enemy the game always starts a turn. i mean i expect it is my turn but i have something like 2 seconds to shoot someone before their turn starts which is really annoying. when this game become for gamers who have fastest mouse skills? i mean i have only 2 seconds after i see an enemy in these 2 seconds i have to aim then click 2 times for better aim then change fire mode to burst and start shotting. is any of you can do this?

- the other thing i shoot an enemy and right after that game starts a turn. i can not escape with my merc. for example i am sniping enemy with suspensor but right after i shoot, 5 guys directly know my place and starts to run towards me even they shoot and hit me. game doesnt let me excape after shoot. what to do in this situation?

so how can i hit them and run to cover before game starts forced turn?

- last thing i have mouse for sneaking but right after i get direct view of an enemy who looks directly opposite of me can see me from 20 tiles. are there anyone plays with sneaking style?

When you get close to the enemy before the turn based combat, there's a slight delay before they spot you, indicated by the little bar filling up. If you're crouching or especially hiding, it'll take longer for them to spot you while also reducing the range they start spotting your mercs from, giving you more time to react. It can still be a hassle though. All I can really advice you to do is to not get too close to the enemy while you're planning your approach and when you do approach, use different stances (crouching, crawling).

When you start combat by shooting somebody, keep an eye on the Action Point cost of your attack. The game counts your attack, even before the turn based combat has properly started, as if you had just taken your turn. So if your merc has 12 AP, you sneak up close in real time, aim a shot for 7 AP, your merc will only have 5 AP left to spend during the actual first turn of the fight. The same is true for any other actions you might have setup with other mercs. For example: If you setup overwatches before the fight starts, your mercs will not have any AP left for that first combat turn. So, in short, don't waste all your AP into the first attack unless you know there are no tangible threats to your mercs who can reach your guys after the first combat turn.

Keep in mind, the enemy will always get a free "reposition" turn when the fight starts, because the first actual combat turn will always be yours to take. Some higher skilled enemies are also sometimes allowed to make a single action during the reposition turn, such as using a weapon specific action or be allowed to shoot once, but that's fairly rare.

The example your provided about the sniper with a suppressor. If the shot is not made from stealth and it doesn't kill the target, the merc will be revealed (taken out of stealth) the moment the bullet hits the target. If you manage to kill the target in one shot, the merc will remain hidden. The AI though seems to almost always know the general direction where the bullet came from and will probably rush towards your sniper position regardless. As a side note: If you stealth kill any enemy target and the bullet pierces their body and hits somebody else, the merc will come out of stealth even if the intended target dies.

Sneaking is very powerful in the game when done right. A merc with good stats and sneaky perks can stealth their way almost through anything regardless of the time of day, and with silenced guns or knives, can clear entire sectors solo. They're even better at it if it's night or wearing gear with stealth bonuses. Though I'm fairly sure you're unlikely to run into stealth gear early in the game. While sneaking around, I'm afraid you'll just have to get a feel for how close you can be to any enemy. Try to avoid spolights too, they will reveal you REALLY fast. Also, while sneaking you shouldn't linger around the enemy for long, ever. Once the bar starts to fill, they will spot you unless you reposition.

Edited July 22, 2023 by BossWeapons

[shadoww]

here i killed some guy with knife and right after that i lost stealthy, game entered turn base and the other guy suspected me. look at the distance, more than 10 tiles. other guy was facing away when i killed him. when i move he directly looks at me. so how to hell i kill him right now? even this is night. how can he realize me?

 

Edited July 22, 2023 by shadoww

[BossWeapons]

15 hours ago, shadoww said:

here i killed some guy with knife and right after that i lost stealthy, game entered turn base and the other guy suspected me. look at the distance, more than 10 tiles. other guy was facing away when i killed him. when i move he directly looks at me. so how to hell i kill him right now? even this is night. how can he realize me?

 

One thing to note about the enemies in the game is that they can see 360 degree around themselves. In the screenshot above you successfully stealth killed the first guy, but the other one was too close to the first and he saw his buddy die. He is in a "surprised" state, as indicated by the little exclamation thingy above his unit type. When enemies are surprised and you kill them with the next action you take, they won't alert anybody else, unless somebody else sees the surprised person die. But that is only one action though. They get the normal enemy reposition turn if that single attack doesn't succeed or you click the end turn button, which begins the combat as per the norm.

The only thing you could have done to prevent a full blown fight here, would have had somebody with Mouse, preferrably with a silenced gun who could have shot the surprised enemy from stealth. But personally, what I would do in this particular scenario, I would just run Mouse behind the boxes to her left or the tires behind her and see if she could toggle stealth again (which is unlikely since you can't stealth again during the same turn you were exposed) or hit the shield action icon thing to take cover and hope for the best. It provides amazing bonuses to defence and often makes enemies not able to hit you at all even from up close unless they flank you and the biggest bonus from using the action is that it gives you up to 5 extra AP towards the next round of combat.

[Uncle Nick]

19 hours ago, shadoww said:

...how can he realize me?...

Mouse is standing fully upright in the screenshot, i think she can only be in stealth mode when crouched or prone.