Ineventory management system

[Fredd]

I have seen some of the demo streams. And from what I cans see there seem to be limited possibility to store weapons and stuff between the missions. In a base warehouse or similar. This is important for the fun of the game. That inventory space is not limited. So that you can store weapons for particular missions. Where you don't have to throw away weapons due limited inventory space. Maybe you want to keep a weapon that is good in close quarters for a mission where this is good. Instead of having to throw it away because you cant carry it around when you don't need it in most of the missions. 

[DougS2K]

The inventory system is in a terrible state overall IMO. Right now, you simply get X amount of space depending on the mercs strength stat but items seem to not factor in weight at all. For example, a rifle takes two slots but we know some rifles are heavier than others. So for example, you could carry say 3 M14's or 3 M60's and they are treated the same yet the M60 weighs about twice as much as an M14. So it's impossible to overburden your mercs strength with this system and no way to increase inventory space if you wanted to carry a bunch of lighter items as there are no backpacks or LBE available. Also, where's the face slot for NVG's, sunglasses, etc.

The way the inventory is done in JA3 is just very basic. I really hope they change it up to something more like JA2 1.13 where you can equip different size backpacks and factor in weight of items.  Also, the shared ammo is really bizarre and a terrible design decision. Moving ammo around between mercs, reloading mags, etc, is a lot more realistic and fun then just having your mercs share a magic box of ammo.

[Xeth Nyrrow]

I think the best system would be to have a limited amount of slots but also be limited by total weight similar to JA2 just without all the fussy different shaped bag slots. Bulk more than weight is really a factor when carrying things anyways.

[Godzilla]

Hi Fred! must be a friend of Martins I wager haha

Another stream fan I approve

[Godzilla]

11 minutes ago, DougS2K said:

The inventory system is in a terrible state overall IMO. Right now, you simply get X amount of space depending on the mercs strength stat but items seem to not factor in weight at all. For example, a rifle takes two slots but we know some rifles are heavier than others. So for example, you could carry say 3 M14's or 3 M60's and they are treated the same yet the M60 weighs about twice as much as an M14. So it's impossible to overburden your mercs strength with this system and no way to increase inventory space if you wanted to carry a bunch of lighter items as there are no backpacks or LBE available. Also, where's the face slot for NVG's, sunglasses, etc.

The way the inventory is done in JA3 is just very basic. I really hope they change it up to something more like JA2 1.13 where you can equip different size backpacks and factor in weight of items.  Also, the shared ammo is really bizarre and a terrible design decision. Moving ammo around between mercs, reloading mags, etc, is a lot more realistic and fun then just having your mercs share a magic box of ammo.

i wouldnt say terrible Id say they can improve it for sure

but generally i agree with a list of proposed changes somebody made earlier and i dont think inventory is a deal breaker

jagged alliance seems to be moving in a more crpg direction which can be fine in some respects but in cases like their grit mechanic and perk system i think it can be revised

[Solaris_Wave]

The inventory system in JA3 is one of the weaker things about the game, in ways that @DougS2K has precisely described. It just doesn't make any sense other than to be done to speed up gameplay. I am still in favour of a grid system, similar to original X-COM and Silent Storm. It isn't just terms of weight of an object but also size. A 9mm 30-round magazine is thinner than a .50 BMG box magazine. That means that more can be carried by one person.

[Stuurminator]

On 5/6/2023 at 12:58 PM, DougS2K said:

Also, the shared ammo is really bizarre and a terrible design decision. Moving ammo around between mercs, reloading mags, etc, is a lot more realistic and fun then just having your mercs share a magic box of ammo.

I need this explained to me, because I haven't gotten a clear impression from the beta videos. Can mercs pull from a shared inventory during combat? Or is the shared inventory only an out-of-combat thing?

[Solaris_Wave]

48 minutes ago, Stuurminator said:

I need this explained to me, because I haven't gotten a clear impression from the beta videos. Can mercs pull from a shared inventory during combat? Or is the shared inventory only an out-of-combat thing?

I'd like clarification on this as well. If it can be done during combat, so shared stuff teleports around your team, it will be silly. I likened it to a medieval supply cart being pulled up behind your team and having a squire run up to each merc with items.

If it is out of combat, why do you not have a base of operations like in JA2, such as Drassen, where your items are stocked? Are your team relegated to being wandering nomads?

[Reloecc]

1 hour ago, Stuurminator said:

I need this explained to me, because I haven't gotten a clear impression from the beta videos. Can mercs pull from a shared inventory during combat? Or is the shared inventory only an out-of-combat thing?

38 minutes ago, Solaris_Wave said:

I'd like clarification on this as well. If it can be done during combat, so shared stuff teleports around your team, it will be silly. I likened it to a medieval supply cart being pulled up behind your team and having a squire run up to each merc with items.

If it is out of combat, why do you not have a base of operations like in JA2, such as Drassen, where your items are stocked? Are your team relegated to being wandering nomads?

There's no mags ingame and ammo is automatically stashed in squad inv. So in combat it MUST be pulled from the squad inv. There's no other way, no doubts. It's like ender stash, but shared.. nothing we haven't seen before /s xD

[Stuurminator]

17 minutes ago, Reloecc said:

There's no mags ingame and ammo is automatically stashed in squad inv. So in combat it MUST be pulled from the squad inv. There's no other way, no doubts. It's like ender stash, but shared.. nothing we haven't seen before /s xD

Not a fan.

[DougS2K]

2 hours ago, Stuurminator said:

I need this explained to me, because I haven't gotten a clear impression from the beta videos. Can mercs pull from a shared inventory during combat? Or is the shared inventory only an out-of-combat thing?

Like @Reloecc said, ammo is in a shared pool called squad supplies. Mercs don't have ammo mags on their personal inventory. They all pull from the squad supplies which contains all your ammo. It's a really weird system to be honest. Like, how is this magical squad supplies pool being carrying around if it's not carried by anyone and we don't have a vehicle??? Hoping they ditch this and go with a traditional system of having mags or ammo boxes. I'm fine with boxes of ammo as well in bulk but mercs should have to carry that as well.

[Claudius33]

I think that the squad inventory can't be used during combat. In order to reload during combat, mercs must carry ammo in their backpacks. When the area is secured you can reload from the squad inventory.

Of course just from videos, I can't be 100% sure.

 

Edited May 11, 2023 by Claudius33

[Solaris_Wave]

No magazines at all or just no magazines carried by the merc? Either way that sounds awful! As long as you have enough on your magic supply cart, each merc can fire away indefinitely? What about the reload action or having to switch to another weapon if your merc runs out of ammo? I assume all of that is still there but they just never carry much on them anymore?

[DougS2K]

28 minutes ago, Claudius33 said:

I think that the squad inventory can't be used during combat. In order to reload during combat, mercs must carry ammo in their backpacks. When the area is secured you can reload from the squad inventory.

Of course just from videos, I can't be 100% sure.

 

This is incorrect. Ammo is pulled from squad supplies during battle. You never need to equip your mercs with ammo. They should eliminate this squad supplies shared ammo system and instead require mercs to carry magazines on their person.

[Solaris_Wave]

The more I read about it, the worse it gets. I loved tooling up my soldiers before battle. I enjoy doing that for every game I play. It makes it feel more like a proper mission that you have to prepare for.

Edited May 11, 2023 by Solaris_Wave

[DougS2K]

7 minutes ago, Solaris_Wave said:

The more I read about it, the worse it gets. I loved tooling up my soldiers before battle. I enjoy doing that for every game I play. It makes it feel more like a proper mission that you have to prepare for.

Same here. I play 1.13 and filling up pockets with enough mags, customizing their LBE gear for each mercs loadout (Sniper, Grenadier, Machine gunner, etc), setting up one merc as a mule with a big ass backpack to pick up dropped weapons to later sell, etc, was really enjoyable and felt realistic.

[Godzilla]

2 hours ago, Solaris_Wave said:

The more I read about it, the worse it gets. I loved tooling up my soldiers before battle. I enjoy doing that for every game I play. It makes it feel more like a proper mission that you have to prepare for.

Oh now you get upset

"devs remove key feature of all strategy and tactical games like CTH"

I sleep

"Devs simplify inventory system and add squad inventory"

🤬

 

I unironically do not understand how some of you can defend cth being removed but then go like "ah you see but the MAGAZINES ah yes thats what really made JA2 a classic" 😆

Edited May 11, 2023 by Godzilla

[Godzilla]

LBE and inventory management (within reason it can get a bit tedious in 1.13 and shortcuts and other QOL aids should be added) is a part of the game but its not what made JA2 great and it does exist its just simplified very heavily.

Again its clear the game is made for a mass appeal audience and is designed to go to consoles at some point thats why all the UI is console friendly.

[DougS2K]

1 hour ago, Godzilla said:

"devs remove key feature of all strategy and tactical games like CTH"

Inaccurate statement. It's not a key feature of all strategy games and was never in the JA series. Devs tried implementing it, realized it didn't improve gameplay and actually made gameplay worse so they removed it. This is supposed to be a successor to JA2 so it makes sense to continue what JA2 did which is no CtH.

1 hour ago, Godzilla said:

"Devs simplify inventory system and add squad inventory"

The inventory is extremely basic and squad supplies is a nonsensical system. No weight or size factoring in at all with inventory which was something the JA2 did. And shared ammo that magically floats along with the squad since no one is carrying it???  Again, this is supposed to be a successor to JA2 so it makes sense to continue what JA2 did by factoring weight of items and making mercs carry their own ammo.

[DougS2K]

1 hour ago, Godzilla said:

Again its clear the game is made for a mass appeal audience and is designed to go to consoles at some point thats why all the UI is console friendly.

This is probably the first post you've made that I actually agree with. 

[Stuurminator]

1 hour ago, Godzilla said:

"devs remove key feature of all strategy and tactical games like CTH"

You don't "remove" something that wasn't there to begin with.

[chr_isso]

10 hours ago, Godzilla said:

Oh now you get upset

"devs remove key feature of all strategy and tactical games like CTH"

I sleep

"Devs simplify inventory system and add squad inventory"

🤬

 

I unironically do not understand how some of you can defend cth being removed but then go like "ah you see but the MAGAZINES ah yes thats what really made JA2 a classic" 😆

your CTH crying is really getting boring.
Because inventory MANAGEMENT was a crucial part of preparing your missions. if you ran into a battle, just to realize you swapped that Beretta for a Deagle, but didnt exchange the 7mm for .357 was ... funny and scary at the same time.

CTH .. was not in the game, was not missed in the game and didn't change anything at all.

 

8 hours ago, Stuurminator said:

You don't "remove" something that wasn't there to begin with.

exactly.

[Grim]

AFAIK, inventory works like this :

- Each merc has his own inventory, where he can put items in several slots. He can exchange items with another merc when close.
* Slots : Their number depends on the STRENGTH value (more STR, more slots). One slot can contain a small weapon, an item (medic bag) or several small items (grenades, knives...). You can put ammo there too. Two slots can contain a large weapon (rifle, rocket launcher, etc)

- Each squad has a shared inventory, dedicated to ammo, scrap and medicinal herbs. It is accessible by any member anywhere in the sector's map. It eases the reloads as ammo is taken from this pool.

- Each sector has an inventory (sector stash), where any item can be stored. It can be accessed only from this sector, and not outside of it.

I hope this clarifies a bit what we are talking about.

[Grim]

Above, I stated the facts, what we currently have.

Now, what do I think about it? Well, I love equipping my mercs like dolls soldiers, JA2 1.13 with NIV was golden for me, with LBE, plenty of items, mags and all. I'd really love to have something similar here.

However, I get that it's not for everyone, and understand the devs tried to take a middle ground here, simplifying ammo management, and not cluttering merc inventory with a ton of items, plus one hour to prepare them individually before each encounter.

I hope they will allow this part of the gameplay moddable, so each one can tweak the system to his preferences. There are already slots, items taking 2 slots, strength affecting the inventory, and worn items with effects on the character stats. I guess this can be tweaked for other results.

[Xeth Nyrrow]

1 hour ago, Grim said:

AFAIK, inventory works like this :

- Each merc has his own inventory, where he can put items in several slots. He can exchange items with another merc when close.
* Slots : Their number depends on the STRENGTH value (more STR, more slots). One slot can contain a small weapon, an item (medic bag) or several small items (grenades, knives...). You can put ammo there too. Two slots can contain a large weapon (rifle, rocket launcher, etc)

- Each squad has a shared inventory, dedicated to ammo, scrap and medicinal herbs. It is accessible by any member anywhere in the sector's map. It eases the reloads as ammo is taken from this pool.

- Each sector has an inventory (sector stash), where any item can be stored. It can be accessed only from this sector, and not outside of it.

I hope this clarifies a bit what we are talking about.

This is how I understand it too. The only point of contention I think really is if the mercs can access the squad inventory in battle. If so, even just ammo, that's horrible. If not then I think it's fine. Best would be that it's accessible upon first entering a sector until combat starts. Then it should be inaccessible until ALL enemies have been cleared from the sector. Having a physical bag on the screen that you can run all the way back to for more equipment/ammo during this inaccessible time would be a nice touch though.