Let's play streams in English

[phoenixcz]

Hi,

 

Do you know if there are any longer (few hours) gameplay streams in English?

[Lunokhod]

2 hours ago, phoenixcz said:

Do you know if there are any longer (few hours) gameplay streams in English?

For what? I didnt see english streams. Best gameplay videos - DrProof on youtube. But its german.

[D13]

On YouTube you can enable auto-generated English subtitles. I watched some of DrProof's videos and the translation is not great but enough to understand some of the explanations he gives.

[phoenixcz]

Yep, DrProof gameplay is great and generated subtitles are ok-ish. I was just wondering if there is anyting in english.

[scope112]

It is odd that pretty much all the early previews are either German, French or Russian 

[Xeth Nyrrow]

14 minutes ago, scope112 said:

It is odd that pretty much all the early previews are either German, French or Russian 

The market for JA2 (and thus JA3) was very Euro driven due to the popularity there. I do think it's a large mistake to have not put similar effort in to the American market though since it's so large.

[Solaris_Wave]

Germany in particular loves strategy games. They also like lots of unique simulators too.

I was always surprised about the weaker market in North America. The US is a big place and so I thought that would allow for various tastes. Even if not the US, then Canada, seeing as that is where Sir-Tech was largely from.

For JA3 itself, you could see it from two sides. On one side, you have got the popularity of JA2 and it being able to take the time to develop its fanbase in North America (hopefully giving rise to the appeal of JA3, in turn). On the other side, you have got multiple sequels that turned out to be a disappointment, while other games have had time to take over in people's minds.

[Xeth Nyrrow]

They obviously have made features and changes to appeal to a wider audience so why not actually try to capture a larger audience with marketing? The collector's edition and the lack of English streams was bad form on their part. I'm not surprised though, it's exceedingly rare for video games to even remotely be marketed well these days.

On a positive note, what they have shown us on their streams has been much better than most companies though. I suspect some NA streamers will be given access to the game to hype it up but this should have been done at the same time. TBS games are really not popular in the US market anymore but I don't think they should have been ignored like they did.

[Solaris_Wave]

This is just a question and not an argument, but do you have proof that turn-based strategy is not popular in the US market anymore? What about games like Civilization, the current XCOM games, BattleTech, Panzer Corps II, to name a few? Are RTS games more appealing to the US market? This isn't just games like Company Of Heroes and similar Command & Conquer styled games, but even grand strategy games that act turn-based in their nature but are actually real-time. Games like Stellaris, Crusader Kings III and Hearts Of Iron IV.

Civilization continues to always sell well, I think. Even if it pretty much the same thing every time. However, I don't really keep up with any computer game market these days. I don't know what is popular on consoles anymore and I don't follow the trends. I tend to just buy and play what I want, sticking to single player experiences. Multiplayer games don't really appeal to me anymore due to the stress (even if I was good at them). Not to mention the toxicity of a lot of their communities.

Therefore, I am unaware of whether the US is radically different from anywhere else, with the exception of Germany, which as I mentioned earlier, often seems to really enjoy strategy games and obscure simulators.

[D13]

Here's a 2 hr gameplay stream in English (by an Austrian):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lz-l10AuykY

Rather slow pace, with only one gunfight during the first hour (and it takes half an hour to get there). Which is not necessarily a bad thing if you've already watched other streams, as streamers tend to rush through menus and in-game help screens - not this one.

 

[Xeth Nyrrow]

9 hours ago, Solaris_Wave said:

This is just a question and not an argument, but do you have proof that turn-based strategy is not popular in the US market anymore? What about games like Civilization, the current XCOM games, BattleTech, Panzer Corps II, to name a few? Are RTS games more appealing to the US market? This isn't just games like Company Of Heroes and similar Command & Conquer styled games, but even grand strategy games that act turn-based in their nature but are actually real-time. Games like Stellaris, Crusader Kings III and Hearts Of Iron IV.

Civilization continues to always sell well, I think. Even if it pretty much the same thing every time. However, I don't really keep up with any computer game market these days. I don't know what is popular on consoles anymore and I don't follow the trends. I tend to just buy and play what I want, sticking to single player experiences. Multiplayer games don't really appeal to me anymore due to the stress (even if I was good at them). Not to mention the toxicity of a lot of their communities.

Therefore, I am unaware of whether the US is radically different from anywhere else, with the exception of Germany, which as I mentioned earlier, often seems to really enjoy strategy games and obscure simulators.

I haven't done any actual research, I'm just looking at the available market of games vs other types compared to 20-30 years ago. I'm sure they are less popular in other parts of the world too but I haven't looked. Of course there are some popular TBS games out there but they are exceptions rather than the rule.

[Claypl]

I think that they made decent attempts for other markets, there were couple impressions/overviews made by couple popular channels like Splattercat, ACG, Fextralife, IGN and some others

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqBvKm07G5E&ab_channel=Splattercatgaming

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vT93wWSnkVs&ab_channel=ACG

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgO4MroMKmw&ab_channel=Fextralife

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYsHtAkhwJU&ab_channel=GeekCulturePlays

That being said if their goal was lets play, I would reach out to few other guys, Christopherodd would be great, here are my suggestions:
Christopherodd
Nookrium
Wonderbots

Also if they do not mind game being streamed, there are couple good Twitch channels to present it:
Cohh (he would probably repost playthroughs to youtube)
FilthyRobot
MattOblivium
AdmiralBahroo
Marbozir

[Hendrix]

A few other streamers I think could be suitable for marketing are:

Mortim, https://youtube.com/@MortismalGaming

Retcon Raider, https://youtube.com/@RetconRaider

Raptor, https://youtube.com/@Raptoria

[Claypl]

I hope they plan for another batch of the promotions before the launch. Certainly some people needed to be reminded how great this franchise was (and hopefully still is after this release!) and younger folks nowadays could not be bothered with anything else then following what their fav internet influencers does.

@Hendrix thanks for reminding me of Retcon Raider, legendary voice, have not heard this guy for a while!

[Hendrix]

8 minutes ago, Claypl said:

Retcon Raider, legendary voice

Yeah I find it's strange that he hasn't more followers.

Sure his videos aren't as high production as some other streamers and I guess his tempo playing games can be to slow for some. But some of us much rather prefer that to the "high energy" style and constant self importance comments.

[Claypl]

He does tend to read through all the text, which I guess makes people switch off early.

Lucky JA3 seems to have most of conversations fully voiced so IMHO that will make good match with the content.

[Stuurminator]

I've seen someone by the name Ohmwrecker in the official Jagged Alliance discord. There's a YouTuber (and streamer?) by the same name who may be worth looking into.

Jagged Alliance is not the sort of game he usually posts on his channel, so I wouldn't suggest it if he (or his discord counterpart) hadn't shown genuine interest in JA3, but he could provide exposure to an audience that's not generally aware of the tactical combat genre. He got me into at least one game outside of my comfort zone, so there's precedent.

[Xeth Nyrrow]

57 minutes ago, Stuurminator said:

I've seen someone by the name Ohmwrecker in the official Jagged Alliance discord. There's a YouTuber (and streamer?) by the same name who may be worth looking into.

Jagged Alliance is not the sort of game he usually posts on his channel, so I wouldn't suggest it if he (or his discord counterpart) hadn't shown genuine interest in JA3, but he could provide exposure to an audience that's not generally aware of the tactical combat genre. He got me into at least one game outside of my comfort zone, so there's precedent.

I think these are the best types of people to focus marketing attention on for a game like this. So many of the bigger ones are just there to make a buck without being interested. JA3 isn't going to make anyone famous so people would avoid streaming it for that. But those who are passionate about the game? Yeah, help them promote it.

[Kordanor]

You could also see it from the other perspective. Maybe there werent that many people from the US interested in that stuff?

Two other points I wanted to quickly mention:
1. JA2 also flopped in US Sales.
2. With the recent announcement of physical copies you can also see that 60% of all boxes are GERMAN Language. That kinda shows where the market is - and my guess is that it's no different from JA2.

Also keep in mind that THQ already published JA Rage, and they have preorder numbers. I am pretty sure that they know what they are doing.

[Solaris_Wave]

 

1 hour ago, Kordanor said:

You could also see it from the other perspective. Maybe there werent that many people from the US interested in that stuff?

Two other points I wanted to quickly mention:
1. JA2 also flopped in US Sales.
2. With the recent announcement of physical copies you can also see that 60% of all boxes are GERMAN Language. That kinda shows where the market is - and my guess is that it's no different from JA2.

Also keep in mind that THQ already published JA Rage, and they have preorder numbers. I am pretty sure that they know what they are doing.

Why wasn't JA2 popular in the US? Does anybody know? What were the general US gaming market interested in instead?

As I have said before, Germany loves strategy games. I have seen strategy games incredibly popular over there that don't get the same recognition anywhere else (that I know of).

Edited June 27, 2023 by Solaris_Wave

[Solaris_Wave]

9 hours ago, Claypl said:

I hope they plan for another batch of the promotions before the launch. Certainly some people needed to be reminded how great this franchise was (and hopefully still is after this release!) and younger folks nowadays could not be bothered with anything else then following what their fav internet influencers does.

'Influencer' is now considered a legitimate profession now:

 

"Hey everyone, it's Lips, coming at you with all the latest news and tips. Today I am sponsored by Paperclips Paradise, for all your paperclip needs. I shop there all the time and don't know how I lived before they existed. You can enter the code 'CLIPS&LIPS' to get a discount when you next shop there. Go ahead and hit that Subscribe button and don't forget to Like my videos.

Today, we will be taking a look at Jagged Alliance 3 but first I am going to tell you my latest fashion tips, what makeup I use and the next tattoo I am thinking of having."

[D13]

42 minutes ago, Solaris_Wave said:

 

Why wasn't JA2 popular in the US? Does anybody know? What were the general US gaming market interested in instead?

As I have said before, Germany loves strategy games. I have seen strategy games incredibly popular over there that don't get the same recognition anywhere else (that I know of).

 

Shortly before the JA2 release the Sir-tech branch in the U.S. closed down and they did not have a publisher, which must have impacted pre-release marketing. In Europe on the other hand, they had a publisher, and so JA2 was first released in Europe and only a few months later in North America. By the time it reached the market in the U.S. the graphics may have seemed a little outdated already (it was the time when games shifted to 3D) and the publisher was said to not have invested as much in marketing as the European one. In addition, JA2's German localization  was outstanding, compared to what was common at the time, and that alone made JA2 stand out and helped getting positive reviews in German speaking countries. Meanwhile in the U.S. one of the more important magazines (PC Gamer) gave them a disappointing 74% rating in 1999 (funnily enough, in 2022, PC Gamer called JA2 "perfection").

 

[Xeth Nyrrow]

2 hours ago, Kordanor said:

You could also see it from the other perspective. Maybe there werent that many people from the US interested in that stuff?

Two other points I wanted to quickly mention:
1. JA2 also flopped in US Sales.
2. With the recent announcement of physical copies you can also see that 60% of all boxes are GERMAN Language. That kinda shows where the market is - and my guess is that it's no different from JA2.

Also keep in mind that THQ already published JA Rage, and they have preorder numbers. I am pretty sure that they know what they are doing.

Except there's one big issue here: the monetary cost for them to put it on multiple streams is nothing. I'm sure there are many streamers who would love to play the game early at no cost and that's who they should have given the game to. I do not think they should hire/pay for big streamers to be forced to play this game, one they may or may not like as that would have been bad.

As for previous sales and marketing, it's wise to invest MORE time/money/energy in to a market you want to get in to gain traction in, not less. They have already paid money for English Internet ads so we know they have interest in the market.

[Kordanor]

I am a streamer (well, youtuber) myself and you got to make some calculation yourself.
You will not stream games which don't interest your audience (and probably also not those who arent interesting to you) and on the other hand, the Publisher is also not interested in giving smaller streamers access, especially if they dont follow some press standards or even have to sign something (as they were only allowed to play the first 12h).
Even as small youtuber I had to pass on games because I knew they would not have gotten interest and not "worth" the time investment in terms of channel growth (for me its not really revenue yet, but for bigger youtubers/streamers it is). In the end, for a youtuber/streamer time is money. So you need a "high level" streamer with a fitting audience and interest to cover this game, where covering this game isn't their "loss". And Jagged being as popular as it is in Germany, its not too surprising that streamers were mostly german, and US coverage was mostly done by media or streamers who were maybe not "first row" (but I saw at least 2 english streamers/yoututbers, maybe not at day 1)

[Xeth Nyrrow]

37 minutes ago, Kordanor said:

I am a streamer (well, youtuber) myself and you got to make some calculation yourself.
You will not stream games which don't interest your audience (and probably also not those who arent interesting to you) and on the other hand, the Publisher is also not interested in giving smaller streamers access, especially if they dont follow some press standards or even have to sign something (as they were only allowed to play the first 12h).
Even as small youtuber I had to pass on games because I knew they would not have gotten interest and not "worth" the time investment in terms of channel growth (for me its not really revenue yet, but for bigger youtubers/streamers it is). In the end, for a youtuber/streamer time is money. So you need a "high level" streamer with a fitting audience and interest to cover this game, where covering this game isn't their "loss". And Jagged being as popular as it is in Germany, its not too surprising that streamers were mostly german, and US coverage was mostly done by media or streamers who were maybe not "first row" (but I saw at least 2 english streamers/yoututbers, maybe not at day 1)

I think we agree they should have gotten some professional streamers who are middling in size and play these types of games. The streamers suggested in posts above are some good examples of those who qualify. The main point being is that there were plenty of viable streamers who fit the criteria to effectively promote the game but they didn't use them. The result will cost them some sales in English speaking markets but as I've said before companies are really bad at marketing their games.