High Hopes

[Blackphlaker]

I grew up with ja2 i still play it almost once a month and i tell you if you realy wont to have a bad time try playing it on a modern computer, the one thing i realy wish for is a good game that brings jagged alliance in to the 21st century. Please make jagged alliance 3 a great game that will last me equaly as long as the last one and make it a moddable game. THQ i hope you guys get it right 😉

[Acid]

All I want is a JA2 on a more modern engine, is that to much to ask. I agree lets hope this game gets it right.

Edited September 18, 2021 by Acid

[Lietu]

I'm not sure there's any sense in anyone believing in yet another attempt to reboot Jagged Alliance. There's been what, 3? 4? different attempts to reboot it and all of them have been *utter trash*, it's like none of the devs or designers ever played the original games and the only thing shared was some high level broad strokes - "mercenaries, turn based combat, I think I got it".

You're going to have a hard time convincing anyone that yours is any different - that the world is destructible, that the combat is actually strong and realistic, that the story and characters are interesting, there's depth comparable to a game from '99, and that you can actually apply various different tactics freely to each situation and not just when someone in the design team decided to put a ladder to the side of a building, or a highlighted destructible wall 🤦‍♂️

[Blackphlaker]

True that, other than jagged alliance back in action none of them realy got me and i think with thq the ip has a strong partner and it is possible to bring JA to a new audiance.

 

And to be clear i will wait for reviews first and then buy it like everybody should do with a franchise that went trough so much

[Wigen]

I remember how the Polish Jagged Alliance community lived with news about each new part of the game. There were of course some disappointments along the way, of course, until the whole series seemed to be buried in full swing.

And here is a surprise and a preview of a new game from the Jagged Alliance universe.

Therefore, I have very high hopes and expectations from this game.

 

Edited September 27, 2021 by Wigen

[GODSPEED]

I'm excited, but also pissed off!

 

Calling this game Jagged Alliance 3 means they have to make sure to build on Jagged Alliance 2 the way it built on Jagged Alliance.

 

So far, I appreciate some aspects of the trailer/screenshots; the graphical style is just right, the isometric view, the different zoom levels seem right, the way the mercs looks, the minimalist UI. It all looks pretty decent to me.

 

I'm worried about gameplay. The last thing I want for Jagged Alliance is a simplification or dumbing down of strategic layers and ovee simplification the way new xcom treated old xcom.

[Wigen]

It would be enough if Jagged Alliance 2 refreshed graphically, because the throw that is in Jagged Alliance 2 is very good. They could add a world rotation to look at the tactical map from 4 sides, not just one and etc.

What's in Jagged Alliance 3 Anno Domini 2021 is simple so far, but it looks like a completely new game. Set in a different world. Something like Settlers, which after subsequent editions lost the spirit of the original.

Edited September 28, 2021 by Wigen

[Kordanor]

I think I mentioned that before somewhere. But I think the idea of "just putting the old game and have nicer graphics" is not as easy as it sounds.

One example is that 2D graphics are only "easier" to do than 3D graphics if what you display is simple and static.

If for example you want the characters to have faces and different clothing, weapons looking different, mabye different character shapes then 3D becomes easier. Because you create one model, one animation and then slightly adjust it. But you don't need to draw pictures of all combinations in 8 directions for each animation.

Thats also why games like Pillars of Eternity, have a 2D background (rendered from 3D) but use 3D character models.

Sure if you say "we don't need all that, I am fine with a generic soldier in shirt without a face", well then...why do you want a remaster in the first place?

Similar for the voices. The recording quality of Jagged Alliance 2 can and should likely be improved. But that means re-recording every again for tons of mercs. 

So even for "just a remaster" you would need to redo tons of stuff from scratch. What you could take over are maybe game mechanics and scripts. I am not sure how viable that is.

[Gavs]

was happy to learn about the release of JA3! I remember how many countless times I played the game with different heroes and in different ways. It was great. I liked how difficult it was to solve tactical tasks: how to get in the door, how to get as close as possible to throw a grenade. Therefore, I passionately hope that the developers will be able to restore the spirit of the game, the humor of the characters, a lot of decisions when completing missions. Good luck to all of us who still have a glimmer of hope to see JA!

[Gavs]

was happy to learn about the release of JA3! I remember how many countless times I played the game with different heroes and in different ways. It was great. I liked how difficult it was to solve tactical tasks: how to get in the door, how to get as close as possible to throw a grenade. Therefore, I passionately hope that the developers will be able to restore the spirit of the game, the humor of the characters, a lot of decisions when completing missions. Good luck to all of us who still have a glimmer of hope to see JA!

[Low_K]

You and everyone else on the forum methinks, @Gavs! Great times will hopefully be ahead!

[SWi74]

On 9/28/2021 at 5:18 PM, Wigen said:

It would be enough if Jagged Alliance 2 refreshed graphically

 

 

Edited October 1, 2021 by SWi74

[GODSPEED]

On 9/28/2021 at 10:18 AM, Wigen said:

It would be enough if Jagged Alliance 2 refreshed graphically, because the throw that is in Jagged Alliance 2 is very good. They could add a world rotation to look at the tactical map from 4 sides, not just one and etc.

 

I often say the same thing, and I think we're a bunch that feel the same way.

 

But to be honest, when I REALLY think about it, I DON'T just want JA2 in a modern engine. I have played that game at least once or twice a year for the past 16-17 years. I still play it. Currently going through another game at a leisurely pace.

 

Is that really want I want? A copy/paste of JA2 just with fancy graphics? Mmeh.

 

I'd like to be introduced to new mercs with personalities, what happened with M.E.R.C.? Who's new at A.I.M. ?

 

Now, I have to make it clear, I do not want ANY of the modern day social bullcrap stuff. I want characters with sexist amd racist ideas, as much among the women as the men, I want mercs that are disgusting, others that have class. I just think Buns has now retired and is helping train some mew marksman noble-blooded snob! (I like Buns).

Ivan is old now, he's been in so many battles. Igor has become a veteran.

South America is still misbehaving since Stephen decided to never go back.

 

Anyways, you get the idea. I want to discover a new story, new characters, new secrets, hidden features... and don't hold my hand!

 

Just keep the gameplay complexity!

 

 

 

We are ready to settle for a modern engine JA2 because we've been burnt too many times.

 

 

[Wigen]

Anyway, what we saw on the trailer does not look bad, and when it comes out, we'll find out.

 

What worries me the most:

1) an excess of non-switchable animations, which significantly extends the gameplay

2) making the mechanics shallow

3) poor AI

[GODSPEED]

58 minutes ago, Wigen said:

What worries me the most:

1) an excess of non-switchable animations, which significantly extends the gameplay

2) making the mechanics shallow

3) poor AI

1) Yes... that over-the-shoulder camera view when you want to take the shot... and having to select the body part. 🤢 🤮
I'm guessing this is a U.I. element they decided either because a) for consoles, b) to copy new xcom, c) never played JA2 and noticed how easy it is to mouse over any enemy (and the part you want to hit) and just right click to aim more.

It's extra "layers" of UI/camera jank that is unecessary.

I'm also REALLY not a fan of movement being covered by a zone of movement overlay on the map. I like and ENJOY proper THINKING and planning and regretting miscalculations on my part.


I SERIOUSLY SERIOUSLY hope they won't have the kind of system in place where you cannot move after shooting or locking you out of REALLY doing whatever you want with your AP, in whatever order you want!


2) the removal of interrupts, a very unique feature, replaced with overwatch 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮

While we have no way to KNOW it is overwatch, but the icon gives the impression of it being overwatch. Maybe it's the button to "look". We'll have to see...


3) that's pretty self-explanatory...

[Acid]

10 hours ago, GODSPEED said:

1) Yes... that over-the-shoulder camera view when you want to take the shot... and having to select the body part. 🤢 🤮
I'm guessing this is a U.I. element they decided either because a) for consoles, b) to copy new xcom, c) never played JA2 and noticed how easy it is to mouse over any enemy (and the part you want to hit) and just right click to aim more.
 

Be good if its optional, you can zoom in over the shoulder for the shot or leave it like classic JA2 view.

[Inveris]

 

I am also counting on a good game, but also a constructive conversation with the game's developers.

 

Just a simple example from the recently released Starship Troopers demo.

 

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1202130/discussions/0/2954915322310080865/

 

 

 

 

[SWi74]

On 10/1/2021 at 2:30 PM, GODSPEED said:

I often say the same thing, and I think we're a bunch that feel the same way.

 

But to be honest, when I REALLY think about it, I DON'T just want JA2 in a modern engine.

I think it's natural to want to settle with something decent and then heighten your requirements rather quickly. It's like not owning a car and being happy to get a small older one. In an year you would probably want a bigger, nicer vehicle...

Given the failures so far, we'd all feel lucky with a JA2 copy. I agree with you - it will be a success, but a short lived one.

The new Diablo 2 is gorgeous... but it was still Diablo 2 exactly. Giving us an open beta was a mistake... I was fed up with it in 2 hours and I will not buy it. I've played it a thousand times and frankly my brain always rendered it in my memory the way it looks now. I would have sworn it's the same graphics if there wasn't a switch between new and old graphics implemented 😄 .

 

[SkunkDave]

I find it hard to believe that any modern dev would be able to match the level of verisimilitude provided by 20 years of mods. They just have to have mod access... plz ;_;

[GODSPEED]

3 hours ago, SWi74 said:

I think it's natural to want to settle with something decent and then heighten your requirements rather quickly. It's like not owning a car and being happy to get a small older one. In an year you would probably want a bigger, nicer vehicle...

The new Diablo 2 is gorgeous... but...

...graphics aren't the end all be all. Sometimes you would care way more for a new story, new characters and new world map with all the same mechanics, engine and graphics.

I guess that's the feeling I have when I want a Jagged Alliance 3. I don't want a re-imagining, a remake or a clone of this or that... I just want to play Jagged Alliance 2, but with new secrets, challenges and discovery to go through.. and with fresher graphics.

 

26 minutes ago, SkunkDave said:

I find it hard to believe that any modern dev would be able to match the level of verisimilitude provided by 20 years of mods. They just have to have mod access... plz ;_;

Even with mod support... you have to have modders who care enough about the base product to want to invest their own time.

Looking at the work that was put into 1.13 alone, not to mention some pretty good mods out there... these are things that have been worked on for years and years. Those modders are familiar with the JA2 engine, they might not want to split that time with a new engine and new problems to solve.



Jagged Alliance 3 NEEDS a VERY strong foundation if modding can even make it better. 

Having done some pretty intensive modding of Skyrim (well over 200 mods and running stable), it doesn't really make the game better, because the writing is childish; the plot, the story and the "dungeons" are all very shallow... modding can go so far.

Another good example would be 7,62 High Calibre; it's a gun nuts wet dream. Litteraly! You carry individual magazines and clips and can load various bullet types in the same magazine.. and some major mods have added MANY MANY weapons, fixed bugs and other technical issues. The game is still a real stiff dried out piece-of-bread. You could literally wack someone on the head with it and it would hurt.. no amount of modding will make that game "easier" or better to play.

Mods can make something good a little better, but they cannot make something bad become good. And I won't settle for acceptable when it comes to the Jagged Alliance name. Jagged Alliance Back in Action is as acceptable as acceptable gets, it's okay as a tactical wanabee-isomteric game, but it failed at being a proper Jagged Alliance.

[SWi74]

On 10/8/2021 at 3:51 AM, GODSPEED said:

You carry individual magazines and clips and can load various bullet types in the same magazine..

Love the idea of having magazines as equipment. Haven't played it anywhere, but it fits the JA style perfectly. The actual metal holding the rounds is pretty valuable. Most guns would have just one and a spare should be a rare find to celebrate.

Also it would increase the value of a merc's initial equipment. I always hated buying their original rifles and be out of bullets by the second combat sector. If I could hold on to their mags however, that would be more equipment worth keeping.

[GODSPEED]

3 hours ago, SWi74 said:

Love the idea of having magazines as equipment. Haven't played it anywhere, but it fits the JA style perfectly. The actual metal holding the rounds is pretty valuable. Most guns would have just one and a spare should be a rare find to celebrate.

7,62 High Calibre

It's a buggy game, it's very stiff and clunky... but I couldn't imagine a tactical video game life without having played that game. The one you get on steam also comes with a "mod" that fixes a few issues.

..oh.. and guess what..

Magazines is far from being the only complexity to that game!

When you find a roll of tape, (red or blue tape, can't remember), you can tape 2 magazines together (upside down from one another) and it is litteraly represented on screen.. and it helps with quicker reloads versus having to remove a magazine from a pouch.

Every gun has it's own unique slots for equipment that can realistically fit there. You cannot fit a 4x Acog on a dragunov, because it requires a scope for the SVD sidemount. You have no rails on an SKS, but you can attach laser to barrel ends because they clamp on barrels.

Stocks can be collapsed and opened. You can select the approximation amount of rounds when firing on fully auto.

When your mercs have night vision mounted, you can activate it or deactivate it without removing the entire apparatus. When you activate it.. you see the world in night vision yourself.


I mean, apart from the crappiest writing, stiff animations and clunky controls.. it's the best tactical game if you're into the technical side of guns.


I really wish Jagged Alliance 3 would simply keep the roleplaying system from JA2.. but aim towards a slightly more accurate representation of guns, gear and tactics.

[Wigen]

On 9/18/2021 at 3:22 PM, Acid said:

All I want is a JA2 on a more modern engine, is that to much to ask. I agree lets hope this game gets it right.

You know, it is not enough to make a good game on similar principles, because after 20 years you will not feel the same emotions anymore, and they greatly intensify our impressions and memories.

But if approached on the basis of new experience, it can be successful. 😉

[GODSPEED]

12 hours ago, Wigen said:

You know, it is not enough to make a good game on similar principles, because after 20 years you will not feel the same emotions anymore, and they greatly intensify our impressions and memories.

But if approached on the basis of new experience, it can be successful. 😉

This is maybe where I disagree with you.

I don't think Jagged Alliance has aged badly, quite the opposite, many newer games cannot even equal it. It isn't like it is a fond memory! Many of us fans currently play it quite regularly.

 

Just the way you can move mercs around and select/command other mercs while others are still moving; it is easy to play it as if it was a realtime game (outside of combat). Most games require you to wait until the individual,unit has completed it's move, before selecting another unit, umecessarily slowing the game down.

The way it switches to turn-based and switches back out after two turns without encounters. Unlike many mosern games that are cosntantly turn-based, really slowing down parts you don't want to slow down.

The way you can easily target enemies simply by mousing over them and aim at body parts without having janky ui buttons as selection methods. I really hate this method as it slows down the game for no reason and just adds unecessary steps that a game in 1999 had resolved.

The way it is simple to hide all the action buttons, like the prone, crouch, turn, etc.. and simply use keyboard commands.

 

I could go on...

Jagged Alliance 2 is plenty of features that shame modern turn-based games. I would see no reason to not build on that!

 

Well, I can see a reason.. The lack of experience with JA2 means they don't understand all the positive features that game has compared to the modern ones that actually slow the pace down unecessarily and add plenty of useless ui functions for no reason.

 

Nah, I really hope they replicate a 20 year old game, because in this instance, this 20 year old game plays more fluidly than most, or evan almost all, modern tactical turn-based games!