The question everyone is asking...

[Steeletto]

ETA?

I am so old I played the original JA on an Amiga 1200...So I think I am allowed to ask!
8-)

[saintpumpkin]

I don't care the ETA, i care about the game quality.

[Steeletto]

Totally agree with Saintpumpkin!
All the best parts from JA and JA2 combined!

But since I am naturally curious...it would be nice to have a well guesstimated release date...
Maybe in time for my 60th birthday next year?

[bhaa]

Well, the ETA matters not when we are talking about legendary titles like "jagged alliance". Yet it probably is expected to be within 1-3 years. Hope the game will not become a resemble of a card 2D indie game where merc "abilities" are developed per profession as it is in many XCOM ruined analogies where all actions points are divided by 2 steps regardless of a weapon used.

Would be nice to know a little more about looting system, is it complete (loot all the gear from the body such as a weapon, ammo, armor, etc) or just a couple of randoms.

Nevertheless, finally great news, good luck !!!

[Torshammer]

I`m Past 60 and I can`t wait for ja 3 so yes ETA is importent. Love Ja - Ja2

[GODSPEED]

6 hours ago, bhaa said:

Well, the ETA matters not when we are talking about legendary titles like "jagged alliance". Yet it probably is expected to be within 1-3 years. Hope the game will not become a resemble of a card 2D indie game where merc "abilities" are developed per profession as it is in many XCOM ruined analogies where all actions points are divided by 2 steps regardless of a weapon used.

Would be nice to know a little more about looting system, is it complete (loot all the gear from the body such as a weapon, ammo, armor, etc) or just a couple of randoms.

Nevertheless, finally great news, good luck !!!

I don't even care about ETA anymore. I think JA "successors" have really destroyed most hope to a good JA3.

THE ABSOLUTE LAST THING I WANT FOR JA3, IS ANYTHING REMOTELY CLOSE TO THE MODERN XCOM!   <- NO XCOM 2-PART TURNS!!!!!!

Looting system played such an integral role in the rich diversity of closely replicated toys (weapons, gear, accessories) that it is an important factor.

But. Yes, BUT, I would like to say something, because us JA2 fans, especially the ones who have really got themselves into 1.13 mod... we have to be realistic and NOT EXPECT 1.13-like features.

1.13 was a labor of love by the most devoted fans and a thing of love for JA2. It is incredibly important not to put those expectations on devs that: 1. most likely NEVER even played JA2, 2. aren't necessarily in love with the type of setting in JA2, 3. don't necessarily care for "realism" and 4. aren't necessarily weapon buffs or gun nuts.

You cannot expect 1.13 level of dedication that is STILL being worked on by ppl who are making a game for work. The passion, commitment, love and dedication is NOT that same, regardless how they market it.

[SWi74]

20 hours ago, GODSPEED said:

we have to be realistic and NOT EXPECT 1.13-like features

I have to disagree. 1.13 is a textbook on game design. It's all there for them to learn from. I can't imagine anyone would dare work on a "true successor" while ignoring 1.13. Maybe it is wishful thinking, but if you wanted to have a go at something a lot of people failed in, you'd probably focus some research on what actually worked and was successful. Or... hire them! People do that now. CDPR hired modders they were impressed with. I know full control tried to collaborate with Bear's Pit, but I guess that was more of a pose for Kickstarter backers.

[GODSPEED]

20 minutes ago, SWi74 said:

I have to disagree. 1.13 is a textbook on game design. It's all there for them to learn from. I can't imagine anyone would dare work on a "true successor" while ignoring 1.13. Maybe it is wishful thinking, but if you wanted to have a go at something a lot of people failed in, you'd probably focus some research on what actually worked and was successful. Or... hire them! People do that now. CDPR hired modders they were impressed with. I know full control tried to collaborate with Bear's Pit, but I guess that was more of a pose for Kickstarter backers.

Yeah, I mean, I REALLY wish we could get Jagged Alliance 3 as a modern JA2 1.13.

 

But realistically speaking, we're not dealing with a dev/pub that has that track history. Amd as much as I love 1.13 like nothing else, it is NOT newbie friendly. It is even common to NOT recommend 1.13 to new players, but let them get their feet wet in 1.12 and once they get to know the mechanics and system, they can jump to 1.13.

Here, the publisher and the dev team need to work on something that is accessible,to the widest possible audience. It is NOT what I want, but simply what I'm pretty certain must be for them.

 

Again, I really wish they could take cues from 1.13, but to expect the level of detail - like various ammunitions, LBE, MOLLE, etc - it's just giving yourself unrealistic expectations that WILL hurt the game even if it ends up being a decent JA2 clone.

[Low_K]

I am with Godspeed on this one. Like I said in another thread, JA2 1.13 is in a niche market. this Developer needs the game to speak to the masses. Making it super detailed will only scare away casual gamers, which hurt sales. While I enjoyed the mods (cannot remember if I played 1.12 or 1.13), I also doubt they will implement all those features.

But maybe the Devs add Modding Tools and the community can go berserk.

[saintpumpkin]

I'm the only one who does not like 1.13 and prefers vanilla JA2 ?

[Kordanor]

1.13 is nice. But if I was a developer/publisher and I had to device whether I wanted to release JA2 or JA2 1.13 I would probably go for 2. 1.13 is a subsection of a niche.

It basically equals to lots more work for lots less money. It would be am obvious suicide mission, which is also why it's not going to happen. That doesnt mean that no features for 1.13 can be taken over. But everyone who expects a successor to JA 2 1.13 can only be disappointed. Even a "normal" JA2 successor in smaller scale to succeed would already be a great accomplishment.

[Low_K]

17 minutes ago, saintpumpkin said:

I'm the only one who does not like 1.13 and prefers vanilla JA2 ?

I enjoyed all versions, and like Kordanor said, 1.13 is a niche market. Personally I prefer JA2:Wildfire over vanilla JA2. If you haven't played that one, give it a shot. It's the same game story wise but they added some stuff in sectors etc.

[SWi74]

7 hours ago, Kordanor said:

That doesnt mean that no features for 1.13 can be taken over.

Oh, that's all I meant.

I don't like mods... of anything, really. I always feel like the original devs should know best and outside modification easily undermines the foundation of a good design.

But in this case the guys worked on this mod for so long and until recently (more recently than sirtech) and improved so many things that it is just hard to ignore. To me 1.13 is a mod as much as Counter-Strike is a mod. Does CS do some things better than Half Life? Yes. It does.

I don't expect JA3 to be faithful to everything 1.13 did, that would be crazy overwhelming, certainly not all the optional settings.

When they design a feature/mechanic they can go with something similar to how JA2 did that feature or to how JA2 1.13 did it or an entirely new mechanism.

I wish they would go with some of the very basic features of 1.13 and I don't think they will present any more complexity. They are after all newer (more modern) and result in a better game (I think).

JA3 is never going to pull Fornite playerbase ("Oh, I don't like turn based" as a known gamer colleague just told me). Its chance of selling anything at all is if existing fans think it's good. All new players will either be introduced to JA by a fan or try it as an overwhelmingly positive new game on steam. No-one's ever going to get it because it's easy to get into.

[GODSPEED]

1 hour ago, SWi74 said:

I don't like mods... of anything, really. I always feel like the original devs should know best and outside modification easily undermines the foundation of a good design.

All sorts of opinions out there, but I also think most video games are a labour of love and in a way, a work of art. When making a game, like "creating" anything, so much thought is put into how? why? what? where?.. from the color palette to the art design.

Something, or maybe even many things, might not be OUR taste, but I always think a mod is once you've got a good hang of the base game and want to stretch the experience further and longer.

I think stock JA2 is a great game, even that game has a steep learning curve because it has such a unique engine and not many games that even compare.. closest would be the old XComs, which are also hard to get into.

I usually always play 1.13, basically because of some of the basic features, like resolutions, all the extra guns (and oh so complex LBE pouch supermicroscopicmanagement it brings) and a few other features like the Major Drassen Counter-Attack, which is one of my favorite battles in the game.

That said, what is special about 1.13, it doesn't remove anything, it simply adds and builds on the game. They never touched mercs, stats or relationships. They ADDED difficulty and complexity... which you do not need to use, you can simply use 1.13 for the resolutions and weapons.

Like I always say, I'd be EXTREMELY happy with a simple "remake" of JA2. Everything with that game is near perfect. The layers of strategy from the capture of key locations and the training of militia. Jagged Alliance 2 has this way to give you quests without having journal entries, without pointing the way. PLENTY of hidden "easter eggs" and parts of gameplay that you HAVE to experience to really enjoy.

Like the "simple" matter of finding that video tape to give to that girl who is pissing off Hans. Nowhere does it TELL you to do it, or HOW to go about it. You have NO IDEA there is a black market dealer back there.

Randomly finding all that money in an abandonned mine in San Mona, to later get threatening e-mails from Kingpin... with random assassins after you if you fail to comply.

Finding Terrorists and needing to cut their heads to bag sweet money..

Bringing Flo to the hillbillies.... I hated myself for leaving that poor fragile girl to those monkeys!!! I came back for all of them. 😄

The bugs....


Damn! This game has SO many interesting locations and surprises! But what is so awesome, is that nothing is ever told to spoil the surprise, you figure those things out on your own! You technically could play the game many times and never come close to figuring out every secret.


What's so special about this game too... it never TRIES TOO HARD to be funny, or too serious. Everything is subtle. Everything is detail. It's so easy to miss so much.

Edited September 22, 2021 by GODSPEED

[bhaa]

If JA3 would be exactly the same as JA2 or JA1, just redrawn in real 3D by unreal engine 5 graphics or photo-graphics or what ever engine they name it (all are equally fine by me) I'll be pleased and I'm sure most of the fans would accept it adequately. Just keep it open for modding for people with an artistic bend and we will take it from here. There is no high need to add anything above that. However, looks like some things are impossible to achieve as JA2 collapsed by suing cases of one company against the other, as at least that's the feeling I had when I read the forums... So I guess to make sure no one would ever be able to sue JA3 developer from our past friends the new game must have zero resemblance to it's predecessors, except for the name I guess, or they had to buy all possible rights from the past. Sad to say, but that's probably is in our nature. Therefore the question here is how much previous "licenses" the new designer have, to minimize all possible cases against her/him and that will define how close the JA3 "can theoretically" be to the games we love.

[Inveris]

On 9/22/2021 at 2:29 PM, saintpumpkin said:

I'm the only one who does not like 1.13 and prefers vanilla JA2 ?

Of course You are not. There are plenty of people who rather like original JA2 then 1.13. But unfortunately we have only original versions to play, because there is no such modification like 1.13, but in the more light version. There was JA2 005, but it was abandoned, also JA2 1.14 was abandoned, there is Stracciatella but it is only a bugs, resolution and other minor things improvement. There was many attempts to create such project with all new features based as much as possible on classic vanilla engine, but each time they failed.

[Kordanor]

Well there are also the Gold and Zuxxez Wildfire Versions. Both a great choice. 🙂

[edmortimer]

What matters most to me in my "hope" for a game that will let me put JA2 down is depth of character interaction, combat, and an open non-linear world. Also, easy to mod 😀. In the combat not only do I want to see an attempt to portray real weapon attributes, but also extremely important to me to keep the unique wound/heal system of JA2. Super powers, I mean skill perks (or whatever), are OK if subtle, but if over-powered they should be saved for use in a superhero game (of which there has never been a good one, and I can't think of a reason why). Just my 2 cents.

Edited September 24, 2021 by edmortimer

[GODSPEED]

2 hours ago, edmortimer said:

What matters most to me in my "hope" for a game that will let me put JA2 down is depth of character interaction, combat, and an open non-linear world. Also, easy to mod 😀. In the combat not only do I want to see an attempt to portray real weapon attributes, but also extremely important to me to keep the unique wound/heal system of JA2. Super powers, I mean skill perks (or whatever), are OK if subtle, but if over-powered they should be saved for use in a superhero game (of which there has never been a good one, and I can't think of a reason why). Just my 2 cents.

Hitting the nail on the head, pretty much sounds like that.

Over the 16-17 years of playing JA2 (I was 'late' to the game), if one thing seems to keep me coming back and almost unanimously is what made it so great: characters with personalities and selecting the "Tons of Guns" option.

[Ragnar Caesar]

On 9/22/2021 at 11:26 PM, SWi74 said:

Oh, that's all I meant.

I don't like mods... of anything, really. I always feel like the original devs should know best and outside modification easily undermines the foundation of a good design.

 

Skyrim and Fallout 4 without any Mod? No way!

[SWi74]

9 hours ago, Ragnar Caesar said:

Skyrim and Fallout 4

I said the foundation of a GOOD design. 😄

Jokes aside, I've never played any Bethesda title I consider a good game. It's an unpopular opinion, I know. In the case of Skyrim and Fallout 4, sure, mod away 🙂

[sofos]

I might sound heretical even to my ears, but I loved the fluent tactical play of Phoenix Point.

In my opinion the simplicity of area movement coupled with the option of having a specific number of action point (4,5,6,7) depending on the character is a winner.

Although I spent hours playing Xenonauts 2 Alpha, I find the need to calculate points, not to my liking anymore.

Also a cover indicator is a must.

 

[GODSPEED]

19 hours ago, sofos said:

In my opinion the simplicity of area movement coupled with the option of having a specific number of action point (4,5,6,7) depending on the character is a winner.

Although I spent hours playing Xenonauts 2 Alpha, I find the need to calculate points, not to my liking anymore.

Also a cover indicator is a must.

 

So far, from the trailer, it seems to be this kind of Action Point system. I guess we'll need to wait on the devs to know more details.. one "fear" I have, is a turn-based system where once you've taken an action, like and attack, you then cannot move... regardless of AP system. Not sure why this would be.. but hopefully, they've come up with a complete freedom AP system.

Hey, if you do not like calculating AP's anymore, that's ok. What matters is to have fun playing what you like... I still like calculating them 😇.



A certain cover indication is useful. That, I have to admit. I do think there is a fine line between cover indicator and cover system though. Because of the grid based system in JA2, it could sometimes be dificult to know what is in cover or not due to angles and corners. I would rather this game not turn into a hunt for cover acknowledgement like in the modern xcom games. Some judgement and common sense needs to come into play as well.