2 most needed changes

[GODSPEED]

50 minutes ago, D13 said:

My disappointment stems not from the requirement of having to get used to something new, which is to be expected from a new game, but from the nature of the change and its effects. One now has to be able to click fast an precisely like in a real-time tactics game, or suffer a tactical disadvantage. It's just too much action for my liking, hence my disappointment.

For myself, as I've said in another post somewhere on this forum.. I've been praying at the 1.13 altar for about 15 years.

I don't care if some think 1.3 isn't JA2, it has everything JA2 is about, the mercs, the money, the guns. It simply added so many Quality of Life fixes and many options that we're originally removed (but are in the game) as toggles so you can raise the game's difficulty a notch or 10 when you've already beaten JA2 many times (it's too easy really). Some seem to think 1.13 is a complete "change" or an overhaul... when it really isn't. If you play with Tons of Guns... well.. you get A SHITLOAD tons of guns. Just play with less to have JA2's original Gun selection.

1.13 is JA2, but with added QoL & difficulty options. Nothing more, nothing less.


So... for me, it took me a good 10 hours to get into a completely different beat. I'm not used to having to rely on reading about buffs/debuffs, or having to make use of skills and abilities with buttons. That said, I like JA3 as a tactical game. It clearly has many awesome ideas and twists on the Xcom gameplay. I would never even look at Xcom with JA3. Because, it feels like an Xcom game that has been tweaked and worked and modified to approach a game like JA2 in terms of what the game is and how it's played. I don't feel the same level of freedom in some aspects, but do in others.

I don't like the real-time thing. 1.13 added the option to play with real-time sneaking on.. but also the option to pause when in real-time.

I would like them to add such an option in JA3. After all, many who play JA3, play it because of their affinity for turn-based, not for the real-time strategy.

[MatyxCZ]

Exactly! Without active pause, the game can't be enjoyed and pleasure is replaced with frustration in the "RTS" part of missions. I see requests for this everywhere I look for reviews and comments, Steam is simply full of this.

I won't continue playing until this is implemented, I want to have a good experience playing the game. I'm even considering returning the purchase and go for Xenonauts 2 instead (releasing tomorrow) and come back later once it's fixed 😉

[Tzg]

4 hours ago, MatyxCZ said:

Exactly! Without active pause, the game can't be enjoyed and pleasure is replaced with frustration in the "RTS" part of missions. I see requests for this everywhere I look for reviews and comments, Steam is simply full of this.

I won't continue playing until this is implemented, I want to have a good experience playing the game. I'm even considering returning the purchase and go for Xenonauts 2 instead (releasing tomorrow) and come back later once it's fixed 😉

Just do it. Return. Stop whining. It works fine - and it works fine on steam deck with less than perfect controls. It works better on pc. Active pause could be useful but its dumbing down the game to the lowest common denominator. 

Edited July 17, 2023 by Tzg

[Xmkgenzo]

Impossible to be strategic with my squad without the ability to pause and give orders.

now I look with nostalgia at having Malice ready to slit a throat, Lynx on a roof ready to shoot the approaching guys, and my alter ego cleaning close quarters with bursts from the most silent FAMAS G2

[Xmkgenzo]

On 7/15/2023 at 7:23 PM, Solaris_Wave said:

Pause during real-time was something that was suggested a long time before release. I can't remember who suggested it on these forums first but as soon as it was done so, it was universally liked and became immediately apparent that it was an important and necessary addition. This is not just a manual pause option but also an auto-pause interrupt during critical alerts, such as detection of mines, booby traps and enemies. Without it, you are scrambling to avoid disaster as your other mercs blindly set off more mines. The enemy can also possibly gain the initiative and turn the tables on your team, starting combat while you are still busy setting up position. I am sure this can be all the more problematic when you have to keep scrolling back and forth between mercs that are split up on the battlefield and you are trying to control them all at once, and don't have the finesse that paused activity (or forced switch to turn-based movement) provides.

AMEN!

[Jaywalker]

1 hour ago, Xmkgenzo said:

Impossible to be strategic with my squad without the ability to pause and give orders.

That's what turn based mode is for.

The moment you make a shot that an enemy can contest in some way (i.e.: by seeing the victim die, or it being a miss), the game enters turn based mode and you can avoid detection if you manage to eliminate all witnesses before your turn ends.

This is literally and exactly how it works in JA2 1.13, and to some extent vanilla JA2 (with the single difference of vanilla JA2 forces you into turn based immediately on enemy contact, not just after you are detected).

[sandman25dcsss]

Now there is a mod which adds ability to pause on demand.

[sandman25dcsss]

The mod is called "Active pause!" (can't share link from phone), but it is not ideal solution (see its description) so changes from devs are still welcome.

[seraphael]

Not a fan of a pure pause mechanic as it disrupts gameplay flow. Very much in favor of a slow-motion mechanic though, Aliens Dark Descent made this work really well to facilitate ease of control while actually increasing tension - in a way a pause button would absolutely not.

[LXant]

After playing more, I have a few things to add to my earlier assessment.

- Allow crafting materials to go to the shared group inventory (like the mod from the workshop alrady does)

- Allow to scrap knifes

- Allow to put explosives in the shared group inventory, as they're technically projectiles (albeit thrown ones)

- Allow to combine upgrade items with unique weapons (i.e. sharpening stone with "The Thing")

- Bring back the online shop for basic items like ammo, and increase ammo drops

- Change the traders, so that they have something like a shop and not a table with a 24h cooldown that only offers one single item

[Tzg]

11 hours ago, LXant said:

After playing more, I have a few things to add to my earlier assessment.

- Allow crafting materials to go to the shared group inventory (like the mod from the workshop alrady does)

+ Agree here - it would be easier that way. However people will whine and complain on squad splitting as they will forget to move materials. I am 100% certain, 

11 hours ago, LXant said:

- Allow to scrap knifes

+ 100% 

11 hours ago, LXant said:

- Allow to put explosives in the shared group inventory, as they're technically projectiles (albeit thrown ones)

- Disagree. Explosives should be in each merc inventory. Side note - its funny to see how the tune changed (not saying you personally) from pre-release - 'we hate team inventory' to 'omg add more things to shared inventory'

11 hours ago, LXant said:

- Allow to combine upgrade items with unique weapons (i.e. sharpening stone with "The Thing")

No opinion here. Could be useful, could be not. I would love to see some document in the game listing all possible combination - but that's just because I am lazy 

11 hours ago, LXant said:

- Bring back the online shop for basic items like ammo, and increase ammo drops

Since there are no airports - the online shop could be added but with very long lead times - so it doesnt break the game economy or the world settings. OR which would be very cool they could do 'drop' by parachute somewhere in the area of the desert where it would need to be found, could go missing, broken, scattered and/or fought over with enemies. 

11 hours ago, LXant said:

- Change the traders, so that they have something like a shop and not a table with a 24h cooldown that only offers one single item

No. Disagree. These traders fit perfectly in the world setting. It is a backward country, with a civil war, evil corporation, communist and f... know what else fighting over it for years. These traders are some poor souls scrapping together what they can find and selling whatever they get. It makes way more sense to have them like that on the... well, flea-market, after all than some sort magic gun runners with massive supply of ammo and custom guns. 

[sandman25dcsss]

Those traders are awful because I cannot even check what I am buying. Strings like "Glock48" tell me nothing. Is it a pistol? Damage? Distance? Ammo? Other properties? Why should I buy it instead using one of dozen pistols I already have?

I even accidentally bought one item by misclick (there is no confirmation) while I was trying to leave that place.

Edited July 19, 2023 by sandman25dcsss

[Tzg]

2 hours ago, sandman25dcsss said:

Those traders are awful because I cannot even check what I am buying. Strings like "Glock48" tell me nothing. Is it a pistol? Damage? Distance? Ammo? Other properties? Why should I buy it instead using one of dozen pistols I already have?

I even accidentally bought one item by misclick (there is no confirmation) while I was trying to leave that place.

yes they are. All that fits perfectly into the narrative and story. They are not arms dealers, they are some poor dudes selling rubbish on some weird bazar like setting in the middle of god forsaken country torn by civil war, coup de etat and other 'fun' activities. So yeah, they may have limited shit stock of items they dont udnerstand themselves. 

[sandman25dcsss]

2 minutes ago, Tzg said:

yes they are. All that fits perfectly into the narrative and story. They are not arms dealers, they are some poor dudes selling rubbish on some weird bazar like setting in the middle of god forsaken country torn by civil war, coup de etat and other 'fun' activities. So yeah, they may have limited shit stock of items they dont udnerstand themselves. 

My issue is I don't care about narrative, roleplaying, story. All I care is gameplay. If gameplay is bad, I complain and want it to be improved, and narrative/story are not valid excuses for me.

Edited July 19, 2023 by sandman25dcsss

[Jaywalker]

On 7/16/2023 at 7:26 PM, GODSPEED said:

1.13 is JA2, but with added QoL & difficulty options. Nothing more, nothing less.

It absolutely isn't "QoL".
Save for a few hotkeys that make the other additions in any way playable at all and the ability to sell items as junk to locals, literally every addition to the game made by 1.13 is antithetical to improving the quality of your experience.

You get hundreds of near identical guns, your AP count is granularized to add any semblence of distinction to those hundreds of guns, your inventory becomes a logistical nightmare of different sized and shaped pockets that you cannot even access until you put on the right size of pants and jacket.

It's a great mod if you want to make the easy and straight-forward original more challenging or improve the complexity of the simulation, but as far as improving the game for the average player 1.13 is DEFINITELY NOT.

[Tzg]

15 minutes ago, sandman25dcsss said:

My issue is I don't care about narrative, roleplaying, story. All I care is gameplay. If gameplay is bad, I complain and want it to be improved, and narrative/story are not valid excuses for me.

This makes no sense at all. What you saying isn't gameplay and what you suggest is not improving it - its breaking the game to fit someone who doesn't care, in the slightest, about the Jagged Alliance part of the title. This is fine - but it doesn't make any sense. You are playing after all a story driven RPG game with TBS elements not a sandbox Civilization style game. Maybe you need to play different game then? Try 1.13. 

Edited July 19, 2023 by Tzg

[StoProGratis]

@Jaywalker I do agree. I liked 1.13 but I replayed the vanilla JA2 many more times. 1.13 had too much options for me and was over complicated in areas that you said.

Edited July 19, 2023 by StoProGratis

[Tzg]

Just now, StoProGratis said:

@Jaywalker I do agree. I liked 1.13 but I was finished the vanilla JA2 many more times. 1.13 had too much options for me and was over complicated in areas that you said.

If you never tried - play Straciatella mod - if you feel need going back to JA2 though. Since JA3 is a worthy successor 😉

[sandman25dcsss]

12 minutes ago, Tzg said:

This makes no sense at all. What you saying isn't gameplay and what you suggest is not improving it - its breaking the game to fit someone who doesn't care, in the slightest, about the Jagged Alliance part of the title. This is fine - but it doesn't make any sense. You are playing after all a story driven RPG game with TBS elements not a sandbox Civilization style game. Maybe you need to play different game then? Try 1.13. 

Probably you forgot what I am talking about. Here it is again:

"I cannot even check what I am buying. Strings like "Glock48" tell me nothing. Is it a pistol? Damage? Distance? Ammo? Other properties? Why should I buy it instead using one of dozen pistols I already have?"

Now your comment does not make any sense, not mine. You defend the approach by basically saying the vendors are poor and uneducated people. Why would I buy unknown stuff, even from poor people? I am merc leader killing people, not charity organization.

Edited July 19, 2023 by sandman25dcsss

[Tzg]

9 minutes ago, sandman25dcsss said:

Probably you forgot what I am talking about. Here it is again:

"I cannot even check what I am buying. Strings like "Glock48" tell me nothing. Is it a pistol? Damage? Distance? Ammo? Other properties? Why should I buy it instead using one of dozen pistols I already have?"

Now your comment does not make any sense, not mine. You defend the approach by basically saying the vendors are poor and uneducated people. Why would I buy unknown stuff, even from poor people? I am merc leader killing people, not charity organization.

Yes that what they are. You are buying 'cat's in the bag' they are not arms dealers, nor ammo dealers. They are not Tony or Bobby Ray specialised merchants. FFS - look at them, its bunch of dudes on the bazar selling crap from the foldable tables in the middle of shanty town. You are expecting them to have guns that come with full spec and warranty well oiled in the pretty box? No - you are getting some firearm (cat's in the bag) that you will learn more about when you put your hands on, disassemble etc. It makes perfect sense in these circumstances. 

 

Why would I buy unknown stuff, even from poor people?

Then don't buy. It's not requirement to buy from them it is choice.  

Edited July 19, 2023 by Tzg

[sandman25dcsss]

2 minutes ago, Tzg said:

Yes that what they are. You are buying 'cat's in the bag' they are not arms dealers, nor ammo dealers. They are not Tony or Bobby Ray specialised merchants. FFS - look at them, its bunch of dudes on the bazar selling crap from the foldable tables in the middle of shanty town. You are expecting them to have guns that come with full spec and warranty well oiled in the pretty box? No - you are getting some firearm (cat's in the bag) that you will learn more about when you put your hands on, disassemble etc. It makes perfect sense it these circumstances. 

 

Why would I buy unknown stuff, even from poor people?

Then don't buy. It's not requirement to buy from them it is choice.  

Look, I live in a poor country which had average month salary about $10 during 90s. People were standing on the streets selling their old shoes, clothes, forks and spoons, some people had piece of paper with announcements like "I sell xxxx" and you always could come by and ask about what it is, what it is used for and other properties. Vendors can be poor, but they are not crazy, they understand that buyers need to know what they are going to buy. So no, your reasoning does not make any sense. And please don't continue discussing it, you seem to have no idea what you are talking about here.

[Tzg]

7 minutes ago, sandman25dcsss said:

Look, I live in a poor country which had average month salary about $10 during 90s. People were standing on the streets selling their old shoes, clothes, forks and spoons, some people had piece of paper with announcements like "I sell xxxx" and you always could come by and ask about what it is, what it is used for and other properties. Vendors can be poor, but they are not crazy, they understand that buyers need to know what they are going to buy. So no, your reasoning does not make any sense. And please don't continue discussing it, you seem to have no idea what you are talking about here.

Sure. Been there done that. Yet a local 'targ' or different bazar style place isnt comparable to Grand Chien, not only because they are in the middle of massive war but also because Grand Chien isn't exactly real 😄

[Bearson]

@sandman25dcsss

Its a classic case of fanboism, and because of that, its not worth discussing it further like you wrote. Some people are just unable to accept any critique about the game and are going out of their way to prove you are wrong and they are right.

 

[Tzg]

Just now, Bearson said:

@sandman25dcsss

Its a classic case of fanboism, and because of that, its not worth discussing it further like you wrote. Some people are just unable to accept any critique about the game and are going out of their way to prove you are wrong and they are right.

 

you are right. Discussing with fanboys of perceived pseudo-realism is impossible. 🙂

[Twoturntables]

Online store in game

Pause abilities

Mini-map

And listen to those saying head shot and sneak attack damage should increase. Yeah 3 bursts to the hat rack really should do the trick ya know!