Expiring Mines?

[Warmonger]

Are all mines running out? The one in H7 is already empty for me. I hope that doesn't happen in K10 as well. Anyway, it's a lot bigger.

[sandman25dcsss]

One Steam guy mentioned 3 mines ran out for him so he has just 1 remaining.

I use mod to make mines never expire.

[J1v1n]

Yeah, throw some more difficulty at me! 😆

[Warmonger]

11 minutes ago, sandman25dcsss said:

One Steam guy mentioned 3 mines ran out for him so he has just 1 remaining.

I use mod to make mines never expire.

How to get the mod? I really dislike to be put under such distress. It is an open world game. If the mines expire  then there ultimately arises a tremendous compulsion to act, which doesn't fit with it.

[Jaywalker]

The game very much wants you to actually complete it at some point (or at least move forward), and the mines running out eventually is a part of it.

The other part is that as you clear out the outposts, there is fewer sources of enemy spawns (they do not just magically appear out of thin air, they only spawn from outposts and as diamond smugglers), so it eventually becomes easier to just push forward without having to look back and maintain militia.

[Warmonger]

I like to explore, even to have an endless situations, seeing and learning it. Last thing I have in mind is freeing this President for now. I did it same with JA2 and took all the time I could get there. This "freeing this president" is anyway an odd story. JA2 and also JA3 live on the details the stories and action in between, no on reaching that final goal. Also a reason why people so often played JA2 again and again after years just to act around there.

And yes, JA3 is wonderful. I'm in the L9 dump right now. Just great what they created only with that map alone. To see something like this and to act with it, that's what it's about for me. I don't care too much about this President, just as I don't care about politicians in real life.

Edited July 19, 2023 by Warmonger

[sandman25dcsss]

25 minutes ago, Warmonger said:

How to get the mod? I really dislike to be put under such distress. It is an open world game. If the mines expire  then there ultimately arises a tremendous compulsion to act, which doesn't fit with it.

It is called "evermine", one of the most popular mods (10k subscribers)

Edited July 19, 2023 by sandman25dcsss

[Warmonger]

33 minutes ago, sandman25dcsss said:

It is called "evermine", one of the most popular mods (10k subscribers)

Found it so far. But no download?! I am on steam with it.

[Warmonger]

Found it, ist is already there  🙂 

[cane]

It's really a dumb mechanic. Having a single mine or so run out during the course of the game like in JA2 would be fine but essentially putting you on a hard time limit is too much IMO.

[Melliores]

As far as I recall, the email (Daily Chienne) that you receive after the mine income starts dwindling explains that miners start refusing going to that mine. Either someone is scaring them (the Legion) or someone is paying them to stay away from it (Adonis corp). The mine itself does not run dry - would be great if later a quest can be completed to return that mine to a working order in some capacity. Possibly this will be via a mod once the modding tools are made available.

[Jaywalker]

It is a good gameplay mecanic to keep you going forward.

I can assure you there is enough money in the system to run at full capacity with excess to spare for over a year: If this was in any way a realistic game, you could just quit the job and retire everyone in your employ on the excess funds alone (at least with the 2002 economy).

This is Mission Impossible without the "Forgiving Mode" BTW.

Edited July 19, 2023 by Jaywalker

[sandman25dcsss]

It is still unclear how mine depletion happens. Some guys report they got a warning about coming depletion soon after capturing a mine, other guys report their mines work long time. If it is random, it is bad and should be made more consistent.

[Remi1987]

Do mines expire on a parameter just after certain days, game dependencies, and also if the loyalty is double will they expire double as fast?

[sandman25dcsss]

1 hour ago, Remi1987 said:

Do mines expire on a parameter just after certain days, game dependencies, and also if the loyalty is double will they expire double as fast?

Nobody knows yet I think. Based on Steam forum it can be random, for some players 3 mines expired very fast and for others just 1 mine expired and all others keep working.

[Uncle Nick]

I have 2 mines, and have not triggered the mining problem yet. Talking to the villagers, they all still say they want to work in the mines. Life is good in my PMC business, double cash flow positive at the meoment. 

[LoboNocturno]

On 7/19/2023 at 9:48 AM, sandman25dcsss said:

One Steam guy mentioned 3 mines ran out for him so he has just 1 remaining.

I use mod to make mines never expire.

Do we have access to mod already ? Didnt they said it will be available after 3 to 4 weeks after the release ? Cause in game when i go to the mod there is nothing or do we need to download something additional ?

[sandman25dcsss]

3 minutes ago, LoboNocturno said:

Do we have access to mod already ? Didnt they said it will be available after 3 to 4 weeks after the release ? Cause in game when i go to the mod there is nothing or do we need to download something additional ?

Yes, you need to subscribe to Steam mod first, then you will see it in mod manager and can activate it there (subscription is not enough, you will need activation also). There are many dozens mods already.

Edited July 21, 2023 by sandman25dcsss

[Warmonger]

Do it. Mines work long time in real life 2. I am at the slave mine at A2 right. Hard work to catch it before this son of a bitch Graaf kills all the workers. But find out yourself.

[Warmonger]

On 7/19/2023 at 11:46 AM, Jaywalker said:

It is a good gameplay mecanic to keep you going forward.

I can assure you there is enough money in the system to run at full capacity with excess to spare for over a year: If this was in any way a realistic game, you could just quit the job and retire everyone in your employ on the excess funds alone (at least with the 2002 economy).

This is Mission Impossible without the "Forgiving Mode" BTW.

Not believing a word of this. But there are several like you telling such stories, like having done the game hardcore in 4 days and so on. If it is true what you and these others say the game is not worth a penny. Do not know which tricks, mods, cheats and bugs are used for that and also do not want to know them. I am only asking for some balance.

[Jaywalker]

11 minutes ago, Warmonger said:

I am only asking for some balance.

It is balanced: you are meant to struggle to get your foot in the door, so that there is a meaningful thrill to then building a second and third squad to ultimately take down all the toughest bases with either an elite commando or just plain overwhelming force.

When I had the same exact early game issues, I just sacked the medic and headed for the nearest mine to replace the one that had just ran out, and the only reason I even found myself in that situation is that I took a large team on a short-term basis, rather than 2-3 people on a long contract.

You do not need to start with Ivan, Fidel, Vicky and Raider on your team, even on the highest difficulty you can comfortably (mileage may vary) take out large outposts with just a pair of recruits (lots of stealth will be involved, possibly some save scumming). If you made it past Pierre, there is very little the game will throw at you that remotely compares to that until a certain mid-game event takes place, and even then it is possible to recover (cause enemies will start to drop cash items regularly).

[Warmonger]

9 minutes ago, Jaywalker said:

It is balanced: you are meant to struggle to get your foot in the door, so that there is a meaningful thrill to then building a second and third squad to ultimately take down all the toughest bases with either an elite commando or just plain overwhelming force.

When I had the same exact early game issues, I just sacked the medic and headed for the nearest mine to replace the one that had just ran out, and the only reason I even found myself in that situation is that I took a large team on a short-term basis, rather than 2-3 people on a long contract.

You do not need to start with Ivan, Fidel, Vicky and Raider on your team, even on the highest difficulty you can comfortably (mileage may vary) take out large outposts with just a pair of recruits (lots of stealth will be involved, possibly some save scumming). If you made it past Pierre, there is very little the game will throw at you that remotely compares to that until a certain mid-game event takes place, and even then it is possible to recover (cause enemies will start to drop cash items regularly).

And this how you got 1.112.306 tons of money? I would say the game is over for you then. I would be bored on the other hand with such much money.

[sandman25dcsss]

I don't like the economy system. What is it trying to solve?

1) If forcing players to move forward instead of training mercs, then it does not work (just check the screen above with 1 million $)

Training should be hard limited by something like "no more than 3 trainings for each merc", even parts cost as suggested in some Steam thread is not enough.

2) If forcing players to move forward instead of healing mercs, then again it does not work and should be addressed directly with limits like "you cannot heal more than 2 wounds and 20% HP between fights".

3) If forcing players to move forward instead of creating ammo/explosives or gathering intel, then again it does not work as we already have serious requirements for those operations.

4) If forcing players to move forward instead of training militia, then again it does not work as returning back to liberate captured mine or city takes more time and is not fun for many players.

So what do we actually get by having potential gold issues in the game? Forcing players to use the same cheap mercs and a single team? Is it fun and does it help replayability?

Edited July 21, 2023 by sandman25dcsss

[Jaywalker]

1 minute ago, Warmonger said:

And this how you got 1.112.306 tons of money? I would say the game is over for you then. I would be bored on the other hand with such much money.

When I fixed my money issues and recovered from the mid game events, I spent a lot of time rebuilding the militia, which with a positive cash flow (that only got better as I improved Loyalty and took more mines) I had built a very large safety cushion prior to expanding the team (which sped up the process of taking mines and building loyalty).

Towards the end, I could afford a full team of 15 A.I.M. mercenaries (the only way to have more than that is IMP and RPC's, there is no hard limit, just A.I.M. contracts), and my cash flow was at 900,000 with a projected operating expenses of... -98$ that was with full control of the map, after 4 of the mines had ran out.

Mind you, part of the success was raiding shipments, doing quests and looting enemies with gold/saphires on them. Much of my income was from ACTIVE play, and the mines just piled on top of that (my projected profits never went above ~4000 a day).

[Warmonger]

14 minutes ago, sandman25dcsss said:

I don't like the economy system. What is it trying to solve?

1) If forcing players to move forward instead of training mercs, then it does not work (just check the screen above with 1 million $)

Training should be hard limited by something like "no more than 3 trainings for each merc", even parts cost as suggested in some Steam thread is not enough.

2) If forcing players to move forward instead of healing mercs, then again it does not work and should be addressed directly with limits like "you cannot heal more than 2 wounds and 20% HP between fights".

3) If forcing players to move forward instead of creating ammo/explosives or gathering intel, then again it does not work as we already have serious requirements for those operations.

4) If forcing players to move forward instead of training militia, then again it does not work as returning back to liberate captured mine or city takes more time and is not fun for many players.

So what do we actually get by having potential gold issues in the game? Forcing players to use the same cheap mercs and a single team? Is it fun and does it help replayability?

Fully agreed!