Disarming mines should not be done through manual operation by the players.

[qianye]

Commanding your demolitions expert to cautiously proceed forward, disarming every possible mine before allowing your teammates to pass, all the while your teammates may still trigger mines in the process, is not enjoyable and not a good design.

In my opinion, when there is a demolitions expert in my team, they should automatically take the lead while I command the team's movement. They should be responsible for detecting any potential mines and promptly warning teammates not to approach. These actions should be automated rather than requiring manual operation by the players.

[qianye]

 

I am a Chinese player, and the above translation is from ChatGPT. I hope you can understand it.

[Claypl]

IMHO that is simplifying this too much. I think that you want to feel stress of crossing the mine field rather than having that mindless point and click and my merc do everything for me.

Appreciate the feedback but not good idea in my book.

[sandman25dcsss]

Just now, Claypl said:

IMHO that is simplifying this too much. I think that you want to feel stress of crossing the mine field rather than having that mindless point and click and my merc do everything for me.

Appreciate the feedback but not good idea in my book.

What stress? From wasting 5 minutes of real life on trivial activity with lots of pixel hunting and pressing quicksave key? We cannot even skip it if we don't like it because disarming gives parts.

[Jaywalker]

Mines cannot be defused automatically: it is a process that might fail, and they can be deliberately left behind to use against the enemy later.

[Claypl]

Shooting baddies with sniper rifle is trivial too, it does not mean that it should not be there.

Perhaps we come from different angle, I had no problems in clicking on mines in particular (hacking item hitbox can be dog shit at times), had no issues in disarms. The only challenge was to find one.

I dont mind be careful otherwise you get tnt in your face approach.

I feel like these days people want to have easy way out from everything.

[sandman25dcsss]

Just now, Jaywalker said:

Mines cannot be defused automatically: it is a process that might fail, and they can be deliberately left behind to use against the enemy later.

Not with Barry. Success is guaranteed.

[MateKiddleton]

Disarming mines is fun though. Like picking locks.

[sandman25dcsss]

2 minutes ago, Claypl said:

Shooting baddies with sniper rifle is trivial too, it does not mean that it should not be there.

Perhaps we come from different angle, I had no problems in clicking on mines in particular (hacking item hitbox can be dog shit at times), had no issues in disarms. The only challenge was to find one.

I dont mind be careful otherwise you get tnt in your face approach.

I feel like these days people want to have easy way out from everything.

Shooting is never trivial because of jamming, chance to hit and other enemies spectating their teammate death. 

[J1v1n]

I think this process has been implemented exactly the way it should be. Send one of your experienced explosive experts slowly forward to clear the way of mines. With Barry, this is done quickly and easily. 🤓

[Claypl]

@sandman25dcsss just exaggerating mate, as I wrote I do not see problem with spending couple min on mine field in war torn country.

If anything hitbox could improve slightly and game should suggest most skilled merc in your selection to disarm mines (same with other activities).

Give me back these minutes on inventory management and we are good 😉

[Tzg]

awesome. Lets automate: 

- mine clering

- fights

- shooting

- scouting

- interaction with npc's

- travel 

- inventory management

 

Actually - maybe yous be better off watching someone else playing on youtube?  

[sandman25dcsss]

54 minutes ago, Claypl said:

@sandman25dcsss just exaggerating mate, as I wrote I do not see problem with spending couple min on mine field in war torn country.

If anything hitbox could improve slightly and game should suggest most skilled merc in your selection to disarm mines (same with other activities).

Give me back these minutes on inventory management and we are good 😉

I am slow player, this is why I play TB games. I think you exaggerate too, it is impossible to disarm all mines in just a couple of minutes on the map where we meet Herman.

Why did devs add that long delay to disarming mines, gathering plants and parts??? Little respect for players' time I am afraid.

Edited July 25, 2023 by sandman25dcsss

[Tzg]

There is absolutely not requirement to clear mines on Cote d'Azur - you can do it if you feel like it - but you dont have to. All you need to disarm is Herman's mine. Or let him die. 

[Skaldy]

Just now, Tzg said:

There is absolutely not requirement to clear mines on Cote d'Azur - you can do it if you feel like it - but you dont have to. All you need to disarm is Herman's mine. Or let him die. 

Disarming gives extra scrap, Deedee asks for scrap for nades. It is encouraged if not forced

[Tzg]

Just now, Skaldy said:

Disarming gives extra scrap, Deedee asks for scrap for nades. It is encouraged if not forced

IDK - I killed her straight away. No use for me at all and she has annoying voice. 

[Skaldy]

Just now, Tzg said:

IDK - I killed her straight away. No use for me at all and she has annoying voice. 

Gives intel

Gives nades and magazine

Gives XP for talking

as i said, encouraged if not "forced"

[Tzg]

Just now, Skaldy said:

Gives intel

Gives nades and magazine

Gives XP for talking

as i said, encouraged if not "forced"

if she is killed it has same effect on the outpust as intel - she is as good dead. 

Magzine is just +1 to explosives - no use to Red or Barry

Gives Xp for dying too. 

Absolutely dont see why would I be encouraged or "forced" to de-mine the field or keep her alive. Barry makes so much explosives I don't even know what to do with it anymore - and shaped charges are better than anything. 
I know - you have ammo issues - I don't I swim in ammo. 

[sandman25dcsss]

Just now, Tzg said:

There is absolutely not requirement to clear mines on Cote d'Azur - you can do it if you feel like it - but you dont have to. All you need to disarm is Herman's mine. Or let him die. 

You don't need to gather plants/parts/weapons/ammo and disarm mines. But it is optimal to do so. Bad design is when optimal behavior is unfun, trivial or time-consuming.

 Your examples are quite funny as there is a mod to increase travel speed in all 3 stances because it is not fun to spend so much time on travel, there is Livewire to remove scouting, it is quite easy to explode on mine after just discovering it. It is bad design you know, I even recall reading JA2 didn't allow that.

[Tzg]

Just now, sandman25dcsss said:

You don't need to gather plants/parts/weapons/ammo and disarm mines. But it is optimal to do so. Bad design is when optimal behavior is unfun, trivial or time-consuming.

 Your examples are quite funny as there is a mod to increase travel speed in all 3 stances because it is not fun to spend so much time on travel, there is Livewire to remove scouting, it is quite easy to explode on mine after just discovering it. It is bad design you know, I even recall reading JA2 didn't allow that.

Mercs would get damaged by mines and traps in JA2 all the time. you would know if ever played. 

Anyhow, I dont see any of it as bad design - its a choice I am given - I can scrap shit, or I can ignore it, there is SOOOOOO much shit thrown at you all the time it is hard not to be overwhelmed by amount or parts and ammo and explosives and money. 

[Skaldy]

3 minutes ago, Tzg said:

if she is killed it has same effect on the outpust as intel - she is as good dead. 

Magzine is just +1 to explosives - no use to Red or Barry

Gives Xp for dying too. 

Absolutely dont see why would I be encouraged or "forced" to de-mine the field or keep her alive. Barry makes so much explosives I don't even know what to do with it anymore - and shaped charges are better than anything. 
I know - you have ammo issues - I don't I swim in ammo. 

No it is not, if you talk,trade then kill her lol. Jokes aside Ernie is tutorial island. For example there is a crashed car with loot. I think with wisdom and mechanics checks you get 10 extra scrap from car. Quests and solutions are tutorialed. As i said in one of the threads not everyone is expert gamer

Edited July 25, 2023 by Skaldy

[sandman25dcsss]

2 minutes ago, Tzg said:

Mercs would get damaged by mines and traps in JA2 all the time. you would know if ever played. 

Anyhow, I dont see any of it as bad design - its a choice I am given - I can scrap shit, or I can ignore it, there is SOOOOOO much shit thrown at you all the time it is hard not to be overwhelmed by amount or parts and ammo and explosives and money. 

I didn't play it, but I read that discovered mines had a blue flag and mercs would avoid stepping on them. Is it not true and JA2 had bad design too?

Edited July 25, 2023 by sandman25dcsss

[Tzg]

2 minutes ago, sandman25dcsss said:

I didn't play it, but I read that discovered mines had a blue flag and mercs would avoid stepping on them. Is it not true?

In TBA mode they would mostly avoid. In RTS mode they would walk into mines like donkeys all the time, also would always pick the worst possible route to any location etc. Disarming traps and mines would sometimes end with explosion even with explosives on 85+. Part of the charm. 

I love JA2 dont get me wrong - but level of idealising and worship its getting is actually funny. JA (1 and 2 and everything in between) had a gazzillion flaws and problems neither of these games was perfect. 

Edited July 25, 2023 by Tzg

[sandman25dcsss]

Just now, Tzg said:

In TBA mode they would mostly avoid. In RTS mode they would walk into mines like donkeys all the time, also would alway pick the worst possible route to any location etc. Disarming traps and mines would sometimes end with explosion even with explosives on 85+. Part of the charm. 

I see. Bad design in both games. I hate slow travel which requires me to carefully study surrounding every second to avoid stepping into just discovered mine, it is not fun. I think I will decrease mine damage to zero when mod tools become available.

[Jaywalker]

16 minutes ago, Tzg said:

There is absolutely not requirement to clear mines on Cote d'Azur - you can do it if you feel like it - but you dont have to. All you need to disarm is Herman's mine. Or let him die. 

It exploded for me on my first go around, and he still lived. 🤣