After tow weeks now ... GREAT & FANTASTIC!

[Warmonger]

After two weeks of JA3 you have to say it's awesome. While there are minor bugs, and inventory management in particular should be improved, overall it's fantastic down to the atmosphere it creates. JA2 I will probably not play anymore. You can certainly play it repeatedly with joy and in variants. With fixes, mods and upgrades, anything is possible now with this JA3. And some of the petty criticism I read here sometimes do not understand what has been achieved with this game.

GREAT & FANTASTIC!👍

Edited July 28, 2023 by Warmonger

[LXant]

Yes, it is everything I hoped it would be.

Of course, one can always argue about certain weapons being or not being in the game, about certain stats and balancing, or about drop chances for ammo. But that's not the point, you can change those things rather easily.

But the core of the game? It is Jagged Alliance and I couldn't have hoped for a better base for future development, be it either official expansions, mods or anything else.

[Skaldy]

you really need to make up your mind

[Jaywalker]

He obviously got better, as in "git gud". Sucking it up and not whining really does help!

[Warmonger]

4 minutes ago, Skaldy said:

you really need to make up your mind

That was about this "scripted attack". Well I solved it meanwhile. But maybe its is a weak point because you loose the game at once if you trigger it 2 early. Once you learned this it will work.

[GODSPEED]

Currently at while writing this (haven't played a game this much in so little time in years). I'm a slow player, I like taking my time. So this would be the equivalent of 40 hours for a normal player.


I'm enjoying myself greatly as well! But so did I when X-Com was rebooted. The issue for me, is if I will play it multiple times.


I'm very mixed about the game. Many things I like, but also many things I absolutely dislike. I do not have that "love/hate" relationship with JA2, as it provides me with way more freedom and fine-detail (and still haven't played all the mods for it).

Where I really don't like Jagged Alliance 3; is down to the very uneven writing and the arbitrary boardgame-like ruleset.

JA3 has some characters and storylines that are decent enough, and some others that feel like they got the modern Disney treatment; trying too hard to be funny. I've never played JA to have so much "forced" humour. Humour in JA has always been something subtle. That finesse in style and writing has become a sledgehammer here. Too many situations that really have me cringe at how 'not funny' it is, but how much it tries. Those moments, for myself, really throw me off and sometimes even make me want to close the game altogether and uninstall. Many mercs I used to like, now I don't even want to have because their lines are atrocious.

The other thing I don't like is the boardgame-like ruleset. I honestly feel like I am playing a tweaked version of the xcom reboot, than playing a Jagged Alliance (I'm talking core gameplay here). In that EXACT sense, I actually even prefer the way Back in Action approached it (real-time with pause), as it feels more "tactical". In JA3, I feel I am more focused on perks, level-ups and builds than actually just focused on battles and hard mercs stats.

I'm not holding my breath when it comes to mods, because that, for the moment, is too new. If such design and core mechanics can be changed, good. If not, I will probably shelf the game for 4-5 years and come back in the future.


On the other hand, it feels really good to have a modern JA title. The art design and graphical design is nothing less than excellent! New story, new mercs... It's a really good step in the right direction.

This kind of success is the one needed for smaller production dev to also catch the eye of the public. Just like X-Com has it's reboot, it also has it's own cult following and games that try to replicate it's old school very well (Xenonauts).


What matters is that there is something for everyone.


For myself, once I finish JA3, I already have a mod for JA2 I want to go try out. I miss the ultimate liberty and fine-management of JA2 +1.13 +mods.

[Claudius33]

Finally, something worth getting excited about.

Disclaimer : I haven’t completed the game yet. These are my thoughts after about 70 hours which I agree with. Sorry for the wall of text.

So what are we waiting for, Woody? Play the game.

Do you have fun playing JA3?  Yes I do.
Have you experienced memorable fights? Yes I have.
Do you feel the JA spirit when playing JA3? Yes I do : mercs, tactical depth, strategic layer, humor.
Even if you have not completed the game yet, are you considering another run with another team already? Yes, definitely.

To whom would you recommend the game? Everyone who likes tactical challenges, turn based hot fights and laughing or ready to enjoy something new.
To whom would you not recommend the game? People who only want a ‘serious’ wargame instead of a JA tactical RPG and some JA2 1.13 cultists.

What else did you like? Amazing graphics, superb music and attention to details. Lots of quests.
What did you not like? Nothing that prevents me from enjoying the game. Minor details could be improved though.

What comes below is just suggestions, maybe something similar is already on your todo list. Sure it could be done through mods, but it’s always better to have it in the base game.

Unger game

Don’t get me wrong, I like Barry. However I brought him so many times in Arulco that maybe it's time for a change. JA3 is literally begging the player to hire Barry. He’s cheap, clever and his expertise is quite a must have during the early game and afterward. Fidel and Red are much more expensive.
If you consider adding new recruits, please consider some alternatives to Barry.
In addition a metal detector got thru a quest would be welcomed.

Damn guns. A knife never runs out of ammo.

In my opinion, scarcity of ammo spices the game. I like it. However some players don’t.
What about a dedicated quest to find smugglers? I’m thinking to

<spoiler>Capitaine Pierrot</spoiler>

.
Once they are found, a new operation gets available in ports and main cities to order ammo (basically the same screen as crafting ammo). But it should cost more and takes longer than corresponding crafting. No skill required for the ordering merc.

I love it when a plan comes together!
It’s a goddamn war, why be surprised to be taken by surprise!

Scripted events really spice the game and urge you to use your best tactics. However I think the main event may happen too early in the game. When I got back to the involved sector I immediately felt something was wrong. I cowardly loaded the last save before entering the sector because simply entering the sector might  have triggered the chain of events.
I think an additional warning in the journal would be welcomed.

Got the Aug but whose squad is carrying the bloody NATO 5.56 mm?
Despite many criticisms the Inventory as it is is workable. However the Sector inventory should be available as soon as you hit the ‘I’ key. Nevertheless the Inventory should be reviewed, as many players have stated it.
Besides, a new special operation allowing to move a sector inventory to another for a cost (let’s say 100$ per sector) would be welcomed. It is assumed that locals are paid to do the transfer.

Wish list for hoped future extensions, better immersion:

Technicals : the famous pick-up used in African conflicts would be a nice replacement for JA2 tanks. That would be a nice usage of RPGs in a RPG, wouldn’t it?

Immersion :

There are very strong points already : environment, music, market stalls in a poor devastated country (even if some players would prefer a trade screen).

But there are some weak points too :

I am  aware that even changing a simple name is not that easy.  The name can be referenced in multiple conversations and/or journal entries, and that means translations and even voice recording. So keep it for a new adventure in Africa.

Names : too many English names. If Cameroon or Togo were the countries that inspired you, both former German colonies ruled by France after WW1 until the independence, French or German names are ok, but more African names would be welcomed.
For instance:

• Greasy Basil : Nope. Should be “Le Graisseux”. In French when there is a nickname, you do not recall the first name.
• Pierre : Nope. Only his family (Luc) and his acquaintances call him Pierre. Calling by the first name is an Americanism. For the others it is Monsieur Pierre (showing respect) or Pierre Something.
• Bourg aux Puces : Very good in the French version, but not in the English version, should not be translated to Fleamarket on the map.
• Boss Blaubert : ok Boss is international, but that sounds a bit American. Monsieur Blaubert or “le Patron” or “le Chef Blaubert.
• Granny Cohany : Nope, doesn’t sound African at all. Mémé Hayatou or (better) Pati Hayatou. Pati is grandmother in Peul language.

More African important NPC, less foreigners. For new mercs, African born would be welcomed.

For locations you might use the following trick : take the beginning of a known city and the end of another one.  Ngaoudéré + Yaoundé ->Ngaoundé.
    
Writing : Although I like my mercs chatting every now and then, try to have more diverse banters. Igor-Vodka or Omryn-Food sounds a bit too much.

Bunch of whiners.

Consider adding to Magic’s bio:
Magic recently took a passion for golf. He even won a state competition. Gus frantically shouted ‘Dang Woody, Magic is the real Tiger’. We at AIM hope he soon changes his clothing habit.
And to Shadow’s bio:
Amazingly Shadow agreed to take part in a relooking reality show. He wanted to look like Bobby Lee Swagger but couldn’t make up his mind. Ryan Philippe or Mark Walhberg? Therefore the result is not that convincing. AIM ensures that it doesn’t impact his fighting skills.

Sorry I couldn't resist.

That’s all folks.

[Dirk_BVB09]

Some good points, I like the "transfer" of sector inventory for some $ most, good point!

The very few speaking comments of the MERCs could be more, bit boring after some time.

On the other hand when clicking/picking one the "always the same" answer by them is helpful. 😉

What could be improved is the "range" of things you can click on.

If you want to "hack" a mobile... you need to zoom in much to grab it.

Grabbing range should be increased to more easily pick/touch looting when not zommed in.

[D13]

Two weeks in, 43 hours played. In its current form I would rate it 6/10 (haven't finished yet) - not bad, not great, still so much untapped potential. Lots of things that I enjoy more than in any other game I've ever played, yet marred by problems I cannot ignore or work around. Time will tell how seriously they take patching and improving the game. They can turn this into what I would consider a brilliant game 🤞 but if they were to stop development today I'm fairly certain I'd be back to JA2 in a few months. Pretty much how I felt about Silent Storm.

 

[Skaldy]

31 minutes ago, D13 said:

Two weeks in, 43 hours played. In its current form I would rate it 6/10 (haven't finished yet) - not bad, not great, still so much untapped potential. Lots of things that I enjoy more than in any other game I've ever played, yet marred by problems I cannot ignore or work around. Time will tell how seriously they take patching and improving the game. They can turn this into what I would consider a brilliant game 🤞 but if they were to stop development today I'm fairly certain I'd be back to JA2 in a few months. Pretty much how I felt about Silent Storm.

 

My exact sentiment. Instead of Silent Storm, my feelings are cross between Commandos 2(not bad) and Wasteland 3(garbage)

[GODSPEED]

1 hour ago, Skaldy said:

My exact sentiment. Instead of Silent Storm, my feelings are cross between Commandos 2(not bad) and Wasteland 3(garbage)

Yes, its the same vibe as I got with Wasteland 3. Interesting, but somewhere it lacked the "depth" I was craving in Turn-Based Tactical games.

It ticks almost every box, but manages to just fall short in some areas that are important to myself. Played Wasteland 3 once... never looked back. I'm starting to feel the same thing in my JA3 game, but much later on.

[Skaldy]

3 minutes ago, GODSPEED said:

Yes, its the same vibe as I got with Wasteland 3. Interesting, but somewhere it lacked the "depth" I was craving in Turn-Based Tactical games.

It ticks almost every box, but manages to just fall short in some areas that are important to myself. Played Wasteland 3 once... never looked back. I'm starting to feel the same thing in my JA3 game, but much later on.

i have been talking about this since day 1. Game starts very pleasant fine experience and over time, due to bad design choices it gets worse.I feel like they stopped developing the game after Savannah/Fleatown area. Final nail came from plot. You literally need to do certain things, recruit certain characters to get best ending and all of this you need to do before timed events hit. NPCs are written very badly(why in the hell Jackhammer and Slavemaster are same characters?).
I will probably play some more before i shelf this game until big over-haul patch(which i doubt will happen)

Edited July 28, 2023 by Skaldy

[Warmonger]

21 hours ago, GODSPEED said:

Currently at while writing this (haven't played a game this much in so little time in years). I'm a slow player, I like taking my time. So this would be the equivalent of 40 hours for a normal player.


I'm enjoying myself greatly as well! But so did I when X-Com was rebooted. The issue for me, is if I will play it multiple times.


I'm very mixed about the game. Many things I like, but also many things I absolutely dislike. I do not have that "love/hate" relationship with JA2, as it provides me with way more freedom and fine-detail (and still haven't played all the mods for it).

Where I really don't like Jagged Alliance 3; is down to the very uneven writing and the arbitrary boardgame-like ruleset.

JA3 has some characters and storylines that are decent enough, and some others that feel like they got the modern Disney treatment; trying too hard to be funny. I've never played JA to have so much "forced" humour. Humour in JA has always been something subtle. That finesse in style and writing has become a sledgehammer here. Too many situations that really have me cringe at how 'not funny' it is, but how much it tries. Those moments, for myself, really throw me off and sometimes even make me want to close the game altogether and uninstall. Many mercs I used to like, now I don't even want to have because their lines are atrocious.

The other thing I don't like is the boardgame-like ruleset. I honestly feel like I am playing a tweaked version of the xcom reboot, than playing a Jagged Alliance (I'm talking core gameplay here). In that EXACT sense, I actually even prefer the way Back in Action approached it (real-time with pause), as it feels more "tactical". In JA3, I feel I am more focused on perks, level-ups and builds than actually just focused on battles and hard mercs stats.

I'm not holding my breath when it comes to mods, because that, for the moment, is too new. If such design and core mechanics can be changed, good. If not, I will probably shelf the game for 4-5 years and come back in the future.


On the other hand, it feels really good to have a modern JA title. The art design and graphical design is nothing less than excellent! New story, new mercs... It's a really good step in the right direction.

This kind of success is the one needed for smaller production dev to also catch the eye of the public. Just like X-Com has it's reboot, it also has it's own cult following and games that try to replicate it's old school very well (Xenonauts).


What matters is that there is something for everyone.


For myself, once I finish JA3, I already have a mod for JA2 I want to go try out. I miss the ultimate liberty and fine-management of JA2 +1.13 +mods.

Well it is out for 2 weeks now. Library etc. takes time, sorting mods 2. Do not know how deep you in it? I am slow 2 explore the east of the map right. Man, there are so many things to discover  in a very high complexity. Also your will learn your mercs better getting more familiar with them. But it is all really starting deeper in the map/ game. Those who have played it through I am not believing at once, that they saw it all and solved all quests 2. Ok, I don´s t know how real hardcore-gamer-nerds act td. But I am hard on it 2 taking it over step by step. And you have to face very very unexpected things upsetting you if you are not prepared for, which i will not tell - spoiler- here. Believe it is the best so far one can make out of JA2. There are details one could fix to make things more handy, maybe with other balances ... but all over JA3 simply genus with a lot of work ty have put and teh y should be rewarded with all the money they can get for.

[GODSPEED]

3 hours ago, Warmonger said:

Well it is out for 2 weeks now. Library etc. takes time, sorting mods 2. Do not know how deep you in it? I am slow 2 explore the east of the map right. Man, there are so many things to discover  in a very high complexity. Also your will learn your mercs better getting more familiar with them. But it is all really starting deeper in the map/ game. Those who have played it through I am not believing at once, that they saw it all and solved all quests 2. Ok, I don´s t know how real hardcore-gamer-nerds act td. But I am hard on it 2 taking it over step by step. And you have to face very very unexpected things upsetting you if you are not prepared for, which i will not tell - spoiler- here. Believe it is the best so far one can make out of JA2. There are details one could fix to make things more handy, maybe with other balances ... but all over JA3 simply genus with a lot of work ty have put and teh y should be rewarded with all the money they can get for.

I'll try and be concise...

I've gotten tired of playing Jagged-Wasteland-Com 3. I have plenty of respect for Haemimont Games! Seriously, not trying to bash the game, nor the dev team. But the more I'm playing, the more I dislike the game.

Writing that goes from 'passable' to cringe-worthy; I can't stand 1/2 the dialogues. I don't play Jagged Alliance to have a strategy game with filler side-quest content (aka Wasteland 3) and forced-humour. Nearly 1/3 of the map is locations for side quest content. Half the lines in the game just try too hard to be funny. I feel like I'm halfway between a Disney movie and some "trying-to-be-R-rated" thing.

But I get it, I can - to some extent - ignore much of that. In the end, I avoided the mercs in JA2 that I didn't like very much.

I, unfortunately, CAN'T ignore the game mechanics. Perks-galore. Merc Synergies. Perk-to-gun synergies. I don't feel like I'm playing a Tactical Trun-Based Strategy game anymore... but some pseudo mix of Dungeons & Dragons mixed with some Wasteland-like game. Just because it is sprinkled with many mercs I do enjoy, doesn't change the fact the CORE of what I always liked from the grounded approach Jagged Alliance took, is simply not there anymore.

I've forced myself really hard to go in unbiased & open-minded. But I just don't find the game enjoyable anymore.

I wish the best of success to Haemimont Games. I know they worked hard on it and it took serious balls to even work on a Jagged Alliance game in this risky business. I'll be happy for them if it is a financial successful. Lots of respect for the attention they brought to the franchise!

But as it is, for too many reasons, the game has been a roller coaster ride of loving parts of it and hating others too much. The more I get into it (level 7-8 mercs), the more I dislike the game mechanics. The game is set aside for the moment. Maybe revisit in the future..

Edited July 29, 2023 by GODSPEED

[Claudius33]

@GODSPEED I'm really sorry to read that, however I respect your point of view.

I'm afraid though that like some others you got yourself all riled up since the very beginning, convincing yourself it was not the heir you expected. Despite your obvious open mindedness you have too much focused on what you a priori didn't like. 

XCOM? Honestly apart from the inital positionning and a few visuals what else?

Wasteland 3? I've played it, JA3 is well above. Apart from the RPG classic structure, quests and such, what else? That would be true of any RPG by the way.

Perks? Contrary to XCOM or Wasteland 3, JA3 does not demand to figure out which active perk with a so called cooldown factor to use at every combat turn.

Quests :  Don't you like a bit of diversity? Besides quest revive interest. Remember JA2 mid game, when clearing map after map you started wondering if it was worth the value to continue, especially if you had already beaten the game. How many people who still replay JA2 or 1.13 do the Omerta-Drassen way then stop?

As for the mercs banters, after a short while I honestly do not pay attention anymore.

Put the game aside for a while then come back with a more positive attitude as Thor would advise.

 

[Raeven]

6 hours ago, GODSPEED said:

I'll try and be concise...

I've gotten tired of playing Jagged-Wasteland-Com 3. I have plenty of respect for Haemimont Games! Seriously, not trying to bash the game, nor the dev team. But the more I'm playing, the more I dislike the game.

Writing that goes from 'passable' to cringe-worthy; I can't stand 1/2 the dialogues. I don't play Jagged Alliance to have a strategy game with filler side-quest content (aka Wasteland 3) and forced-humour. Nearly 1/3 of the map is locations for side quest content. Half the lines in the game just try too hard to be funny. I feel like I'm halfway between a Disney movie and some "trying-to-be-R-rated" thing.

But I get it, I can - to some extent - ignore much of that. In the end, I avoided the mercs in JA2 that I didn't like very much.

I, unfortunately, CAN'T ignore the game mechanics. Perks-galore. Merc Synergies. Perk-to-gun synergies. I don't feel like I'm playing a Tactical Trun-Based Strategy game anymore... but some pseudo mix of Dungeons & Dragons mixed with some Wasteland-like game. Just because it is sprinkled with many mercs I do enjoy, doesn't change the fact the CORE of what I always liked from the grounded approach Jagged Alliance took, is simply not there anymore.

I've forced myself really hard to go in unbiased & open-minded. But I just don't find the game enjoyable anymore.

I wish the best of success to Haemimont Games. I know they worked hard on it and it took serious balls to even work on a Jagged Alliance game in this risky business. I'll be happy for them if it is a financial successful. Lots of respect for the attention they brought to the franchise!

But as it is, for too many reasons, the game has been a roller coaster ride of loving parts of it and hating others too much. The more I get into it (level 7-8 mercs), the more I dislike the game mechanics. The game is set aside for the moment. Maybe revisit in the future..

I can definitely respect your point of view on this, especially in the aspects you mentioned, like Merc perk synergies, gun synergies, etc. A mix of JA and D&D doesn't feel too far off the mark, to be honest. While I've really enjoyed that element of the game, in particular the variety of viable playstyles that exist in JA3 compared to JA2 vanilla (machineguns, shotguns, melee, grenades all feel like viable and unique playstyles, particularly when combined with the right mercs / perks), I can see how if more realistic tactical gameplay was your bent how you wouldn't enjoy it as much as JA2, or certainly 1.13. 

I think there is a bright future for this game in terms of the modding community. I can definitely see a "tactical" mod being released that strips out the perks, grit, bonus AP stuff (like "inspired", high morale, etc), adds LBE, item weight, magazines etc and turns the game into a totally different experience. Of course that's all theoretical but there's nothing about how the game is designed and balanced that would prevent that from being possible I don't think. 

It will be interesting to see what comes from this! Maybe Haemimont will make a DLC like this themselves, who knows.

[Warmonger]

10 hours ago, Raeven said:

I can definitely respect your point of view on this, especially in the aspects you mentioned, like Merc perk synergies, gun synergies, etc. A mix of JA and D&D doesn't feel too far off the mark, to be honest. While I've really enjoyed that element of the game, in particular the variety of viable playstyles that exist in JA3 compared to JA2 vanilla (machineguns, shotguns, melee, grenades all feel like viable and unique playstyles, particularly when combined with the right mercs / perks), I can see how if more realistic tactical gameplay was your bent how you wouldn't enjoy it as much as JA2, or certainly 1.13. 

I think there is a bright future for this game in terms of the modding community. I can definitely see a "tactical" mod being released that strips out the perks, grit, bonus AP stuff (like "inspired", high morale, etc), adds LBE, item weight, magazines etc and turns the game into a totally different experience. Of course that's all theoretical but there's nothing about how the game is designed and balanced that would prevent that from being possible I don't think. 

It will be interesting to see what comes from this! Maybe Haemimont will make a DLC like this themselves, who knows.

Think and hope there will the future you mention. I see it same. Depends how big the community for it as least and if the makers can make money with it. They gave us a very good base, which makes it impossible to fall back JA2  which I still love and respect but cannot play anymore now. Well our community is the older one less nerds in I presume and less kids. For me is np to pay for upgrades and more maps. But on the current level it is lot of work and I do not like easy squeals then. Well, we will see. For now I will play JA3 still several times and in my on variations. BTW I am still on my 1st work-through here doing it slow and step by step. Analyzing-game I would call it. Next one will be a planned one then.