Sargrat Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 I miss so much: - manual activation of turn based mode I prefer setup my team in real time, acting stealthy, and decide to active turn based mode. I select a merc to act and then, depending on all mercs/enemies stats, there is an order to play for each caracter, like JA2... - no real interrupt like in JA2 where you decide what to do depending on how many AP point left on your previous turn. If you do nothing in the round, you could have an opportuity on an enemy moving and all your AP points available, or even more, your interrupt stopped after your first shoot because of the stats of the enemy and he reacts to your interrupt. - Change facing of a merc to a specific direction. - no strafe movement, or combine strafe crouch, strafe prone etc... And i would find a lot more while playing longer, i suppose In fact, it looks like a lot more arcade than JA 2... If i'm wrong and i missed something, let me now. Too bad, i think of a refund, i'll see or wait for a total conversion JA2 mod.. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcinl0 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 "In fact, it looks like a lot more arcade than JA 2..." yes and no Bobby Rays. Waiting for second patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargrat Posted July 31, 2023 Author Share Posted July 31, 2023 I don't think a patch will ever change the new so-called interrupt system or add an "activate turn based mode" button. Maybe a mod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcinl0 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 install mod active pause - but works different than in JA2. (Devs add Bobby Rays in patch please). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargrat Posted July 31, 2023 Author Share Posted July 31, 2023 I'll do and check but i think the problem is deeper than that. They just wanted it simpler, i think. It just shows me how JA2 was almost perfect. And it was a stunning surprise after a JA1 so good itself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcinl0 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 Yes agree - why JA3 is not updated JA2 in 2023 y. And also I play in brilliant JA1 in 2023. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargrat Posted July 31, 2023 Author Share Posted July 31, 2023 You can force turn based mode in Baldur gate 3 and the system is quite good but not as good as JA2 one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Cents Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 1 hour ago, Sargrat said: I miss so much: - manual activation of turn based mode I prefer setup my team in real time, acting stealthy, and decide to active turn based mode. I select a merc to act and then, depending on all mercs/enemies stats, there is an order to play for each caracter, like JA2... - no real interrupt like in JA2 where you decide what to do depending on how many AP point left on your previous turn. If you do nothing in the round, you could have an opportuity on an enemy moving and all your AP points available, or even more, your interrupt stopped after your first shoot because of the stats of the enemy and he reacts to your interrupt. - Change facing of a merc to a specific direction. - no strafe movement, or combine strafe crouch, strafe prone etc... And i would find a lot more while playing longer, i suppose In fact, it looks like a lot more arcade than JA 2... If i'm wrong and i missed something, let me now. Too bad, i think of a refund, i'll see or wait for a total conversion JA2 mod.. For me its the same. I dont think JA3 is bad game. I would give it, like my review said up to 80%. But at the moment, without changes, its just not my kind of game. But ill play it edited again. But at the moment, i still like JA2 better (around, at least 90%), because the same aspects you mentioned above. And its still my style of game : D Im only bored of the story, because i played it too often, so i think, till its possible to change JA3 easily, i'll do some nostalgic hunting for DfK or a trip to Metavira, when waiting..: D 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargrat Posted July 31, 2023 Author Share Posted July 31, 2023 It's a great game for someone discovering Jagged Alliance, but not for an addict of JA2. I suppose you did the JA2 addon Unfinished Business too? I don't, i seriously think to start a JA2 + UB run ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J1v1n Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 My personal recommendation: go with Jagged Alliance 2 1.13 and the Arulco Revisited mod. 🤩 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elder III Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 Well, it is a new game and was never intended to be a remake of JA2 (or JA2 with the 1.13 mod either). Some of the things you mentioned you might find out are misconceptions on your part due to limited playtime so far, but if you are expecting all of JA2 1.13 to be copied you will be disappointed. If you can approach it as a fully new game set in the JA universe then it may be more enjoyable for you. I'd suggest checking out some of the mods (there are 200+ already, even without full modding tools for a couple more weeks). For example there is an Active Pause mod that you might like (for setting up multiple mercs prior to entering turn based combat). I think it's worth playing, even as someone that did love JA1 and JA2. I encourage you to not give up yet, you've only touched 1% of a full playthrough so far. 🙂 I hope you do wind up enjoying it, but if not I wish you the best either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GODSPEED Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 4 hours ago, Sargrat said: - no real interrupt like in JA2 where you decide what to do depending on how many AP point left on your previous turn. If you do nothing in the round, you could have an opportuity on an enemy moving and all your AP points available, or even more, your interrupt stopped after your first shoot because of the stats of the enemy and he reacts to your interrupt. I talked about this on October 4th (2021), after seeing one of the early trailers. I was met with so much criticism that the Interrupt system in Jagged Alliance 2 is broken. After playing 70 hours of Jagged Alliance 3, I can tell you that the interrupt mechanics in JA2 are way more entertaining, unpredictable and simply have more depth and thought behind them. Some will come up with arguments that the Overwatch is way more "realistic" or much better... but the gameplay tells the story. Combat in JA3 is stale and becomes boring real fast. If you make use of Overwatch, it is so easy to get Ai within crossfire and combat is over within a couple turns, too easy. They counter that by giving perks and bullet sponge enemies, and weakening auto-fire on guns. Why? *puzzled* Interrupt didn't need any of that crap. It worked as intended. Low level mercs would get better soldiers to interrupt them, showing the disparity in combat experience.. while high level mercs would interrupt even the good soldiers, showing how much they are pros. But only if YOU decided to save enough AP's for the task. An interrupt, didn't provide you with more options that you had AP's available. AP's didn't magically multiply in interrupts. If you only saved enough to take an unaimed shot... that's all you had. You then decided whether you crouched, prone, or take that cheap shot. In JA3, the equivalent of 1 burst in AP cost, will give you 3-4 Overwatch interrupts. Those aren't even based on any kind of stat, they happen REGARDLESS if your merc is good or bad. So why do you get MORE AP?? It removed layers of Jagged Alliance unpredictability and the organic feeling of the rpg stats. Now it plays more like a boardgame, or like X-Com when they renewed the franchise. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuckus Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 Perks, man. Get rid of the ability tiers and use a tree a la silent storm. Unique individual perks will have to go; a few can be retained as top level ability perks 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GODSPEED Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 2 minutes ago, Tuckus said: Perks, man. Get rid of the ability tiers and use a tree a la silent storm. Unique individual perks will have to go; a few can be retained as top level ability perks Yep! Perks shouldn't give you superhuman abilities! Like dodging bullets.. More like "bonuses"; like a straight up 5% bonus to accuracy, better control of automatic fire, quicker training of militia... things of that nature that don't alter the combat in ridiculous magical ways. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargrat Posted August 1, 2023 Author Share Posted August 1, 2023 "Well, it is a new game and was never intended to be a remake of JA2 (or JA2 with the 1.13 mod either)." Dude, stop talk about JA2 with 1.13 attached, i speak simply of JA2... I have played hundreds of hours without this patch, this is not the subject ! When you do a 2 to a 1, or a 3 to a 2, you have to respect the fundamentals of the predecessor ! How ? Respect the base, the soul of your game and improve it ! I know very very well JA2 and one hour in battle in JA3 is enought to see it's not the real successor of JA2 ! JA2 was the real successor of JA1 ! JA3? It's an arcade version of JA2, because a lot of people found it too hard... Problem is that easy and realist can't go same way... For me? Problem solved, uninstalled and refunded... Impressive for a BIG JA2's fan waiting a 3 for decades, and after one hour, this? Failed for them ! Just another Jagged Alliance online, etc... Bad for me ! Oh but it's beautifull, great 3D engine, etc...but i don't care ! Great point ! I just bought JA2 gold (with your damned patch 1.13 !!!) with JA2 and JA2 UB, ready for a big travel 20 years later ! Thx ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoProGratis Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 @GODSPEED I need to agree. I do prefer the AP and experience level interrupt system from JA2. It was more counting in it. Overwatch is too simple and much better than spanding AP on manual shooting. Also I liked Silen Storm tree level of perks. I would like to see some skills that could demand training for example someone like Len could tech you how to quick target for less AP etc. So you could train all mercs some basic skills. Better skills would need familiarity for example top sniper skill that gives extra bonus needs you to use sniper rifles often. Otherwise it would be less effective or got no effect of you use only machine guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaywalker Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 19 hours ago, Sargrat said: I miss so much: - manual activation of turn based mode I prefer setup my team in real time, acting stealthy, and decide to active turn based mode. I select a merc to act and then, depending on all mercs/enemies stats, there is an order to play for each caracter, like JA2... When did you last play JA2? You are literally getting a superior version of that in JA3: you don't have to manually open the turn based, you just set your dudes outside of detection range (you would already be in turn based due to enemy contact in JA2), and you then get your full turn with one interrupt if you are spotted. As to the facing and strafing, there is no need for it: it serves no practical purpose, as you are already at no risk of interruption, there is no directional vision (SAME AS VANILLA JA2), and there is no weapon raise/turn costs to pay up front by doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargrat Posted August 1, 2023 Author Share Posted August 1, 2023 7 minutes ago, Jaywalker said: When did you last play JA2? You are literally getting a superior version of that in JA3: you don't have to manually open the turn based, you just set your dudes outside of detection range (you would already be in turn based due to enemy contact in JA2), and you then get your full turn with one interrupt if you are spotted. As to the facing and strafing, there is no need for it: it serves no practical purpose, as you are already at no risk of interruption, there is no directional vision (SAME AS VANILLA JA2), and there is no weapon raise/turn costs to pay up front by doing so. Omg..."When did you last played JA2?" no comment on this, i would be ashamed of my hours played on it or to remember the game better than i do for old friends... "You are literally getting a superior version of that in JA3" It's just crap...No way to enter manual turn based mode, no way to do an ambush at same time, only this shoot interruption you have no control. No way to face a direction !!!! No strafe ! I don't even talk of combine strafe/crouch etc...No way to move back ! Oh wait, why face a direction seeing you have no real interrupt... Of course you re in turn based mode when you re spotted... Sorry to reply, we don't speak same language, i stop there.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D13 Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 In JA2 vanilla turn-based started as soon as one side spotted the other. If we spotted the enemy first, we could then use turn-based to set up our position with the improved control of turn-based. Just because turn-based had started it did not mean combat had started, so turn-based could be used to get everyone into position with enemy interference. And if we weren't spotted before our next turn we would get our full AP back before combat, including possibility of interrupt. Turn-based simulates simultaneous movement, that is just not possible in real-time. Perhaps for some players it is possible, I'm just not fast and precise enough with multiple mercs at the same time (player dexterity level 34 🤕) so it certainly feels like I'm not as much in control as in JA2. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MateKiddleton Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 Having JA2 style turn based on enemy spotted would definitely alleviate almost all of the stealth jankiness that players are finding problematic. It seems pretty easy to do, and a much better solution than active pause which just turns it into another game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoProGratis Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 I would love to see DLC adding Classic JA2 AP system to choose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcinl0 Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 "and a much better solution than active pause I would love to see DLC adding Classic JA2 AP system to choose." Yes absolutely. Please see from other post: When to enter turn-based in JA3: Devs please include, reasonably in the second JA3 patch, OPTION to manually enter turn based like in JA2 Night Operations for example - or permanent tactical turn based option. And everyone will be pleased like JA2 and JA1 players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcinl0 Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 In JA2 it was much better resolved - whole excellent system merc experience, perks, lights etc. and option to manually enter turn based (JA2 Night Operations for example) or permanent tactical turn based - in JA2 extensions. In brilliant JA1 was simple solution: all battle sectors = full turn based gameplay. JA3 Dear Devs -> please look at JA2 and JA1 good solutions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuurminator Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 Wait, how did you manually enter turn-based in JA2? I never knew this was possible. All this time, I thought that was just a 1.13 feature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcinl0 Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 (edited) "option to manually enter turn based (JA2 Night Operations for example) or permanent tactical turn based - in JA2 extensions." In JA2 it was much better resolved - whole excellent system merc experience, perks, lights etc. and option to manually enter turn based (JA2 Night Operations for example) or permanent tactical turn based - in JA2 extensions. In brilliant JA1 was simple solution: all battle sectors = full turn based gameplay." Edited August 3, 2023 by marcinl0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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