Instead of complaining lets find a solution

[Godzilla]

5 minutes ago, DougS2K said:

No offence, but that's just stupid. Plus, there is not a "full scale uprising on the forums". There are a handful of people crying about it repeatedly. Ever hear of the term vocal minority? That's what we have here. You've been here for a day and that's all your talking about it seems. 

"crying about it repeatedly"

Brother do you hear yourself.

I dont have ill will towards you but I think you are the vocal minority who are telling themselves its all fine before the entire thing goes sideways.

Remember Episode I. This is all starting to seem very familiar.

Edited May 6, 2023 by Godzilla

[Solaris_Wave]

2 minutes ago, Godzilla said:

Yes. Look at the steam forums.

There are more CTH posts than any other topic.

There are also a lot of posts about it here.

You can actually guess the likelihood of your shot in reslity becausethe gun sways and is not perfectly on target.

Its entirely realistic, whats your next excuse that has nothing to do with it being a core feature of the genre and a core feature for good reason.

You don't need a precise percentage as an indicator. You just need a vague indicator to know that shooting is viable in the first place. I have said this before. You can have a glowing outline that pulses around the target. It can get thicker or change in colour temperature to indicate that a shot is viable and you are not just going to waste a shot that never had a chance of succeeding.

It can range from: 0-25%, 26-50%, 51-75%, 76-100%

or

0-33%, 34-66%, 67-100%

 

Then again, maybe none of that is necessary. Did the video streamers that played the preview really suffer?

[Godzilla]

2 minutes ago, Solaris_Wave said:

You don't need a precise percentage as an indicator. You just need a vague indicator to know that shooting is viable in the first place. I have said this before. You can have a glowing outline that pulses around the target. It can get thicker or change in colour temperature to indicate that a shot is viable and you are not just going to waste a shot that never had a chance of succeeding.

It can range from: 0-25%, 26-50%, 51-75%, 76-100%

or

0-33%, 34-66%, 67-100%

 

Then again, maybe none of that is necessary. Did the video streamers that played the preview really suffer?

I dont need any feature. You dont need to see where the mercs are or where the enemy is. Just guess. lol

That just sounds like a weak version of CTH and its still something we dont have.

The streamers are a general audience member who is being indirectly paid to stream JA. Their "range" of what will be acceptable to them will be very wide.

Also theyre literally paid to be upbeat and happy.

You should be looking at whats happening on the steam forums if you want a real reflection of how people feel about something without trying to sound like a used car salesman trying to sell me the "CTH car"

Edited May 6, 2023 by Godzilla

[Solaris_Wave]

Just now, Godzilla said:

I dont need any feature. You dont need to see where the mercs are or where the enemy is. Just guess. lol

That just sounds like a weak version of CTH and its still something we dont have.

If you are just 'guessing', why not just guess whether you have a high enough percentage to hit? You like the idea of guessing in one manner but you don't like the apparent need to guess without a precise percentage being shown.

I am not attacking you, by the way. I am just looking for clarification.

[Godzilla]

1 minute ago, Solaris_Wave said:

If you are just 'guessing', why not just guess whether you have a high enough percentage to hit? You like the idea of guessing in one manner but you don't like the apparent need to guess without a precise percentage being shown.

I am not attacking you, by the way. I am just looking for clarification.

Um...thats what I meant.
I was parodying you. Do you understand what parody is?

It just sounds like you're intentionally trying to misunderstand me, and then act surprised if I think you're attacking me. I can do the same to you.

Can you elaborate by what you meant here?

[Godzilla]

19 minutes ago, Home said:

Well, I think this could be a much more productive discussion if we all get along. Some of you disagree with the decision to remove the CTH, some think its a good one. Lets move on and continue this discussion in a civil manner.

I'm not sure what you meant by uncivil, could you perhaps clarify?

[Image Miroir]

The last official communication said: "No CtH in JA3". It's an editorial choice.

I won't even (again) discuss my position, but that's quite simple, the game will be released soon and time for choices is over.

So, if you're sad about it, be sad, but it won't change. If no CtH is too much for you, no one will blame you. For me the game looks great, and I'd respect you if you'd tell me the opposite, I just tell you that discussion is over.

From here, you have two options: try the game without CtH, or wait for the DLC or JA4 to eventually have them. Others attitude are pointless.

[Godzilla]

7 minutes ago, Image Miroir said:

The last official communication said: "No CtH in JA3". It's an editorial choice.

I won't even (again) discuss my position, but that's quite simple, the game will be released soon and time for choices is over.

So, if you're sad about it, be sad, but it won't change. If no CtH is too much for you, no one will blame you. For me the game looks great, and I'd respect you if you'd tell me the opposite, I just tell you that discussion is over.

From here, you have two options: try the game without CtH, or wait for the DLC or JA4 to eventually have them. Others attitude are pointless.

You can fight it all you like but the facts wont change.

Either the people who made the mistake will admit its a mistake, or they will see what happens on release date.

The last official communication can say whatever it wants. A big design mistake will remain a big design mistake regardless of how people feel about it. You can defend it all you want but you will also hate it, exactly like the star wars hated episode I even as they told themselves everything was fine.

Edited May 6, 2023 by Godzilla

[Solaris_Wave]

19 minutes ago, Godzilla said:

Um...thats what I meant.
I was parodying you. Do you understand what parody is?

It just sounds like you're intentionally trying to misunderstand me, and then act surprised if I think you're attacking me. I can do the same to you.

Can you elaborate by what you meant here?

I am not sure where you are going with this but it sounds like we are misreading one another. And yes, I do understand what parody is but maybe you could have made it clearer with your text. You can't always tell in what context something is said when just typing words on screen.

I am not intentionally trying to misunderstand you. I am not looking to antagonise or be argumentative, beyond a civil discussion.

My argument is that we don't really need an absolute hit percentage, right down to the very number. We just maybe need a vague indicator to say whether such a shot never had a chance in the first place. I think, or at least I hope, that JA3 already has that via audible responses from the merc. I would be fairly ok with a visual outline in addition to this, if necessary. It doesn't help you spot a target because there are already indicators in place that show you how much of the target is visible (such as if they are only partially visible behind a rock). All that outline would do is give you an alternative to the hit percentage being visible. You don't even need an outline. You could have a text display near the target, where it says 'Poor', 'Average', 'Good'. Something vague.

Even then though, I personally am not entirely keen on such a thing being present and never really have been. I like the idea of combat being unpredictable, with lots of shots being fired. I am still 'campaigning' for the chance to aim at specific body parts to be restricted to close range. I want to see lots of gunplay, not just precise shots here and there. I want it to feel more dynamic, tense and deadly. Like combat is in reality.

Edited May 6, 2023 by Solaris_Wave

[Godzilla]

Just now, Solaris_Wave said:

I am not sure where you are going with this but it sounds like we are misreading one another. And yes, I do understand what parody is but maybe you could have made it clearer with your text. You can't always tell in what context something is said when just typing words on screen.

I am not intentionally trying to misunderstand you. I am not looking to antagonise or be argumentative, beyond a civil discussion.

My argument is that we don't really need an absolute hit percentage, right down to the very number. We just maybe need a vague indicator to say whether such a shot never had a chance in the first place. I think, or at least I hope, that JA3 already has that via audible responses from the merc. I would be fairly ok with a visual outline in addition to this, if necessary. It doesn't help you spot a target because there are already indicators in place that show you how much of the target is visible (such as if they are only partially visible behind a rock). All that outline would do is give you an alternative to the hit percentage being visible. You don't even need an outline. You could have a text display near the target, where it says 'Poor', 'Average', 'Good'. Something vague.

Even then though, I personally am not entirely keen on such a thing being present and never really have been. I like the idea of combat being unpredictable, with lots of shots being fired. I am still 'campaigning' for the chance to aim at specific body parts to be restricted to close range. I want to see lots of gunplay, not just precise shots here and there. I want it to feel more dynamic, tense and deadly. Like combat is in reality.

I dont think Im misreading you at all, I think I understand you 100% correctly.

I made the parody very clear. I said if you dont need to know information about the hit chance then you also dont need to know about where the mercs are. would you play that? Im not so sure.

I think you are intentionally trying to antagonize me 😆 I think you're only pretending not to and playing this up this whole "please sir Im just trying to be as bad faith as possible and use used car salesman tricks to sellyou on CTH" angle. I think you dont like being caught thats why you're being defensive.

You wouldnt have typed "Im not trying to attack you btw" in your last message if you werent trying to attack me or undermine what Im saying while minimizing my concerns or hand waving away allthe realistic and solid arguments Ive been bringing up.

Again just sounds like you're also unhappy with the current state of JA.

[Godzilla]

You may not think its a mistake you may think its not a big deal, episode I fanbois also thought everything was great until it wasnt.

The opinions of fanbois are not real. They're fake and eventually even they realize that they were wrong.

[Solaris_Wave]

4 minutes ago, Godzilla said:

I think you are intentionally trying to antagonize me 😆 I think you're only pretending not to and playing this up this whole "please sir Im just trying to be as bad faith as possible and use used car salesman tricks to sellyou on CTH" angle. I think you dont like being caught thats why you're being defensive.

You wouldnt have typed "Im not trying to attack you btw" in your last message if you werent trying to attack me or undermine what Im saying while minimizing my concerns or hand waving away allthe realistic and solid arguments Ive been bringing up.

I am really getting tired of all this now. First it was @anon474, then @Woody and now you. What is with the damn insults and accusations? 

[Godzilla]

3 minutes ago, Solaris_Wave said:

I am really getting tired of all this now. First it was @anon474, then @Woody and now you. What is with the damn insults and accusations? 

wohow you flipped QUICK 🤣

I thought you weren't trying to antagonize me. Whatever happened to that?
If other people dislike you maybe there's a reason...

Edited May 6, 2023 by Godzilla

[Image Miroir]

2 minutes ago, Godzilla said:

You may not think its a mistake you may think its not a big deal, episode I fanbois also thought everything was great until it wasnt.

George Lucas made is decision, I could disagree, but it was his movie and his choice. Why complaining?

Actually you should follow the example of Lucas, he didn't like studios' decisions, so he worked to be independent. So, make money, purchase the Jagged Alliance licence and make the game the way you want.

[Godzilla]

2 minutes ago, Image Miroir said:

George Lucas made is decision, I could disagree, but it was his movie and his choice. Why complaining?

Actually you should follow the example of Lucas, he didn't like studios' decisions, so he worked to be independent. So, make money, purchase the Jagged Alliance licence and make the game the way you want.

His decision today, my decision tomorrow. Who makes the decision is irrelevant.

Do you even care about what we are talking about?
Im trying to be reasonable.

Its clear the developers are in a difficult dituation. I want to provide a way outof the problem that isn't just "dig heels in pretend it doesn't matter".

Edited May 6, 2023 by Godzilla

[Image Miroir]

10 minutes ago, Godzilla said:

Its clear the developers are in a difficult dituation. I want to provide a way outof the problem that isn't just "dig heels in pretend it doesn't matter".

I sooooo much agree with developers to remove CtH, and so much disagree with you about them. But this is even not an issue: the decision is made. So the discussion is over!

[Godzilla]

7 minutes ago, Image Miroir said:

I sooooo much agree with developers to remove CtH, and so much disagree with you about them. But this is even not an issue: the decision is made. So the discussion is over!

I disagree and I think you arent viewing the situation correctly.

Everybody knows they made a mistake. Even if people think they havent made a mistake they can still admit that a big part of the community and I dont just mean these forums owned by THQ are in disarray and are unhappy.

People can either pretend that nothing is wrong or try to find a solution.

Telling people that everything is great isn't a solution, I signed up to a forum not a religious cult where if people disagree they must be "converted".

Edited May 6, 2023 by Godzilla

[Godzilla]

Thank you Wigen for your reactions. By allmeans feel free to join the comversation at any time.

[Solaris_Wave]

15 minutes ago, Godzilla said:

wohow you flipped QUICK 🤣

I thought you weren't trying to antagonize me. Whatever happened to that?
If other people dislike you maybe there's a reason...

I didn't flip and I am not trying to antagonise you at all. I am merely saying that I don't like these accusations, saying I am doing something when I am not. I had all of that with the others that I mentioned, some just very recently and it caused a lot of problems. So much so that the Admins had to step in on the events that occurred just before you became a forum member.

Yes, I am tired of it, because it was fake. I saw certain individuals insulting others as well as myself, if opinions didn't match theirs. Recently, before you arrived, it blew out of proportion and lies were made, especially against me.

However, if people dislike me, they are free to say so and also why (the 'why' is important). I am not sure I have done anything to deserve it but people are entirely within their right to express the reasons. I can certainly take criticism and nobody on this Earth should ever be above it.

[Godzilla]

Wigen I see you reacting why dont you say anything 😆

26 minutes ago, Image Miroir said:

I sooooo much agree with developers to remove CtH, and so much disagree with you about them. But this is even not an issue: the decision is made. So the discussion is over!

Ok my friend Im glad one of us is happy (but may not be when they actually play it)

[Image Miroir]

1 minute ago, Godzilla said:

Even if people think they havent made a mistake they can still admit that a big part of the community and I dont just mean these forums owned by THQ are in disarray and are unhappy.

What community? A few hundreds of no-life?

In this forum you have maybe 5 people speaking about CtH, and most of them have in mind X-Com. X-Com is a good game, but a different game; Jagged Alliance offers a different flavor, and therefore developers are right not to include CtH.

Your mistake is not to ask for CtH, your mistake is not to understand the original and specific flavor of Jagged Alliance. Therefore, if you like JA: enjoy; and if you don't, have fun with your games and stop blaming those who appreciate what you can't.

[Godzilla]

16 minutes ago, Solaris_Wave said:

I didn't flip and I am not trying to antagonise you at all. I am merely saying that I don't like these accusations, saying I am doing something when I am not. I had all of that with the others that I mentioned, some just very recently and it caused a lot of problems. So much so that the Admins had to step in on the events that occurred just before you became a forum member.

Yes, I am tired of it, because it was fake. I saw certain individuals insulting others as well as myself, if opinions didn't match theirs. Recently, before you arrived, it blew out of proportion and lies were made, especially against me.

However, if people dislike me, they are free to say so and also why (the 'why' is important). I am not sure I have done anything to deserve it but people are entirely within their right to express the reasons. I can certainly take criticism and nobody on this Earth should ever be above it.

It's not whats important. At the end of the day, I think the developers are in a difficult position. And if they continue down this path Im afraid that theyll just get more bad results when JA finally comes out.

If people disagree here they are entitled to do it.

But I think they are wrong.

[Zwolf]

Personally I prefer not to see CTH, though obviously I do understand how some people can be disappointed that it is missing. Making it optional would have been the best of both worlds, but then again, no idea how hard that is to implement, how much complexity it would add to the codebase and so on.

[Godzilla]

I dont think the customer base or user base needs "education" on how CTH is actually bad for them (if anything I think the developers need an education on some things). I dont think the issue is even up for debate or discussion at this point.

So many people disagree with this this is like an avalanche or a weather storm and people would be foolish to ignore it.

I think the most prudent course of action is to understand thr situation then think about how to get out of it in the least harmful way possible to minimize harm and maximize result, i.e. how good JA is going to be.

Edited May 6, 2023 by Godzilla

[Godzilla]

6 minutes ago, Zwolf said:

Personally I prefer not to see CTH, though obviously I do understand how some people can be disappointed that it is missing. Making it optional would have been the best of both worlds, but then again, no idea how hard that is to implement, how much complexity it would add to the codebase and so on.

Zwolfs last 4 messages btw:

"I think everything looks great!" "I like the graphics!" "Wow everythings great!"

It would be very easy to implement but to balance would take a few months.
But whats worse, an unbalanced good decision or a balanced bad one.

Edited May 6, 2023 by Godzilla