Image Miroir Posted May 6, 2023 Share Posted May 6, 2023 Considering the Russian agression of Ukraine, should Russian nationality be replaced by Ukrainian nationality. It doesn't require much change: one flag and a few lines of background. It's very symbolic but many things start to change with a symbol. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquerion Posted May 6, 2023 Share Posted May 6, 2023 I'm not sure if you are baiting or you are serious... Please no current politics in this game. This is entertainment industry after all. We all want to escape grim reality and just enjoy the game. Besides, you would annoy many potential Russian customers which are significant part of Jagged Alliance community. They also greatly contributed to modding community. Historically, JA games sold very well in Russia, a lot better than in Ukraine. Which makes your suggestion unrealistic and unprofitable from business point of view. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaris_Wave Posted May 6, 2023 Share Posted May 6, 2023 That might create a lot of anger. Some Russians really don't like to see the Ukrainian flag, it seems. I recently saw a video of some Russian diplomat grabbing the Ukrainian flag at a conference and running off with it. He was chased after and punched on the nose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wigen Posted May 6, 2023 Share Posted May 6, 2023 (edited) This is a very bad idea, imo. Let's not mix computer games with politics, let alone war. Edited May 6, 2023 by Wigen 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuurminator Posted May 6, 2023 Share Posted May 6, 2023 I'm no fan of Russia actions, but trying to erase it from fiction isn't the solution. Also, if you're angry at Russia's political decisions, I think you should reserve your anger for its political leaders, not its entire populace. What you're proposing is a symbolic attack on the latter, not the former. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Image Miroir Posted May 7, 2023 Author Share Posted May 7, 2023 7 minutes ago, Inquerion said: you would annoy many potential Russian customers which are significant part of Jagged Alliance community. 7 minutes ago, Solaris_Wave said: That might create a lot of anger. Some Russians really don't like to see the Ukrainian flag For sure it wasn't to please Russians, just to underline we know what they do, and don't support it. It's up to them what they decide with their country. 10 minutes ago, Inquerion said: This is entertainment industry after all. We all want to escape grim reality and just enjoy the game. 6 minutes ago, Wigen said: Let's not mix computer games with politics, let alone war. Does it mean we should ask victims not to scream too loudly, not to disturb us from playing video games? Should we just consider bombs not falling on us do not concern us? 11 minutes ago, Stuurminator said: Also, if you're angry at Russia's political decisions, I think you should reserve your anger for its political leaders, not its entire populace. What you're proposing is a symbolic attack on the latter, not the former. I was never implying to forbid Russian from enjoying Jagged Alliance. Just removing the flag. I'm waiting to see the game, but I'm for a game taking place in western Africa, many of these countries will not have their flag in the game. Someway it means you consider, not including Russian flag in the game is more unfair than bombing civilian populations... It's funny to see supporting freedom is only good within video games, "outside... you understand... it's complicated." But I understand I'm going too far, after all I'm implying a flag tainted with war crimes can't stand with others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaris_Wave Posted May 7, 2023 Share Posted May 7, 2023 I think it is more of the case of, despite a game being set in a modern day world, it isn't really modern day. Games publishers don't want to lose out on profit but they especially don't want to incite the wrath of a government, particularly not a belligerent one. Russia wouldn't be the first. China has been the subject of profits, censorship and other things when it comes to games. Other countries have protested also. I don't agree to any kind of pandering or appeasement but then again, I am not a company or corporation with anything at stake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunokhod Posted May 7, 2023 Share Posted May 7, 2023 53 minutes ago, Image Miroir said: Considering the Russian agression of Ukraine, should Russian nationality be replaced by Ukrainian nationality. It doesn't require much change: one flag and a few lines of background. It's very symbolic but many things start to change with a symbol. I already replied to similar post in another thread. U make a fool of yourself. Its videogame. Nobody cares about politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougS2K Posted May 7, 2023 Share Posted May 7, 2023 (edited) I get the sentiment and fuck Russia for what it's doing in Ukraine, however I don't think we need the politics of this in a video game. Edited May 7, 2023 by DougS2K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaris_Wave Posted May 7, 2023 Share Posted May 7, 2023 (edited) Also, despite being genetically related (as far as I know), Ukrainians and Russians are different people and obviously two different nations. Therefore, even if they were at peace, I don't think Russians would like to see Ukrainian representation shown for the both of them. Edited May 7, 2023 by Solaris_Wave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuurminator Posted May 7, 2023 Share Posted May 7, 2023 10 minutes ago, Image Miroir said: I was never implying to forbid Russian from enjoying Jagged Alliance. No, but what you're doing is erasure. You're telling Russian players that their existence and the existence of their nation should no longer be acknowledged. 10 minutes ago, Image Miroir said: Someway it means you consider, not including Russian flag in the game is more unfair than bombing civilian populations... It's funny to see supporting freedom is only good within video games, "outside... you understand... it's complicated." But I understand I'm going too far, after all I'm implying a flag tainted with war crimes can't stand with others. Oh, come off it. First of all, what you're suggesting does nothing for the Ukrainian civilians. It's not going to influence anyone to take a stand against the war and it's sure as hell not going to prevent any death or damage. It's an empty gesture you can take to feel like you're helping without actually making a difference. If you take the money you were going to spend on JA3 and donate it to a charity or other organization dedicated to helping Ukrainian civilians, I guarantee even that amount will do more good than this suggestion would. Secondly, you can't possibly be so naive as to think no other flag in JA3 is tainted with war crimes, let alone other violations of human rights. If you want to erase the representation of any nation with innocent blood on its hands, then I hope you like sci-fi and fantasy, because you sure as hell aren't depicting anyone on earth. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Image Miroir Posted May 7, 2023 Author Share Posted May 7, 2023 5 minutes ago, Solaris_Wave said: Russia wouldn't be the first. China has been the subject of profits, censorship and other things when it comes to games. Other countries have protested also. There is no censorship here, I'm not asking to forbid anyone from playing, not at all. I'm saying there's no obligation of a Russian flag in a game taking place in western Africa. Especially when that flag is tainted. Considering the Chinese flag, if you do consider it's the same, it's possible to act the same. 8 minutes ago, Lunokhod said: I already replied to similar post in another thread. U make a fool of yourself. Its videogame. Nobody cares about politics. Politics is not what you care about, it's what you live in. Entertainment is a freedom we conquered, why should we accept to honor a dishonorable flag? 12 minutes ago, DougS2K said: I get the sentiment and fuck Russia for what it's doing in Ukraine, however I don't think we need the politics of this in a video game. I'm not even as violent as your (rightful) feeling. I'm not asking to give or promote a bad image about Russia, just to say they went too far for what's just a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Image Miroir Posted May 7, 2023 Author Share Posted May 7, 2023 2 minutes ago, Stuurminator said: No, but what you're doing is erasure. You're telling Russian players that their existence and the existence of their nation should no longer be acknowledged. Stuurminator, you should agree that the existence of Russia and Russians is no way related to Jagged Alliance. If it was the case it'd mean 80% of countries should not be acknowledged. 7 minutes ago, Stuurminator said: First of all, what you're suggesting does nothing for the Ukrainian civilians. It's not going to influence anyone to take a stand against the war and it's sure as hell not going to prevent any death or damage. It's an empty gesture you can take to feel like you're helping without actually making a difference. I don't think it's useless. When you see "everyone", everywhere reacting you start asking yourself questions. So far Russia is not asking itself that many questions. 11 minutes ago, Stuurminator said: you can't possibly be so naive as to think no other flag in JA3 is tainted with war crimes I don't see that many flags with that much taint. I don't see that many countries whose elected prime delegates are threatening us with nuclear bombs, considering we are degenerates. If I'm wrong, feel free to correct me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunokhod Posted May 7, 2023 Share Posted May 7, 2023 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Solaris_Wave said: Ukrainians and Russians are different people and obviously two different nations. Therefore, even if they were at peace, I don't think Russians would like to see Ukrainian representation shown for the both of them. No, its not a different people and different nations. The difference is: if you try to do something in Russia, you will be sent to prison where you will be raped in the ass everyday. Thats the difference. 22 minutes ago, Image Miroir said: Politics is not what you care about, it's what you live in. Entertainment is a freedom we conquered, why should we accept to honor a dishonorable flag? Dont be a kid. Everyday somewhere someone is killed. And nobody cares. Might makes right u know what i mean. Nothing changed, stone jungle. If u ask me(im russian), i dont care about Ukraine, its not my business. And I dont care about flags in this game, but what ure suggesting is wrong. Edited May 7, 2023 by Lunokhod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaris_Wave Posted May 7, 2023 Share Posted May 7, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Image Miroir said: I don't see that many flags with that much taint. I don't see that many countries whose elected prime delegates are threatening us with nuclear bombs, considering we are degenerates. If I'm wrong, feel free to correct me. The list is almost endless, politically. Yes, there is the threats of Russia at the moment (and in the past, during the eras of the Soviet Union and Warsaw Pact), but other countries can be seen in a poor light by others when it comes to politics and division. You will find some hate the American flag, some will hate the British flag and some will hate the French flag. That is only a few. It depends on what part of the world you are in and what your struggles have been, no matter how small, whether it made the global news and it eventually got forgotten by the world at large. I could rattle off many more countries and it still wouldn't be enough. Edited May 7, 2023 by Solaris_Wave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Image Miroir Posted May 7, 2023 Author Share Posted May 7, 2023 1 minute ago, Lunokhod said: No, its not a different people and different nations. You're wrong Lunokhod, they are different people and nations. When you reach the point killing each other like that (in a high intensity war) you're no longer the same people. 4 minutes ago, Lunokhod said: If u ask me(im russian), i dont care about Ukraine, its not my bussines. It's the problem of Russia, nobody cares until it's falling on their heads. Why not? But why should we care about you if you don't even care about yourself? 7 minutes ago, Lunokhod said: I dont care about flags in this game So, you're testifying this flag doesn't represent you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Image Miroir Posted May 7, 2023 Author Share Posted May 7, 2023 4 minutes ago, Solaris_Wave said: You will find some hate the American flag, some will hate the British flag and some will hate the French flag. That is only a few. The president of Russia is not a few. The vice-president of Duma is not a few. The former president of Russia is not a few. These people are representing their country, that you like it or not they're the legitimate elected (or formerly elected) leaders of the country. And what Russians say about it? "It's not my business". In front of that I'm just speaking about removing the flag of people officially insulting and threatening us, and you consider I'm excessive. The guys speak about eradicating your family, I'm speaking about considering removing the Russian flag in a video game where it has no absolute justification... and you blame me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaris_Wave Posted May 7, 2023 Share Posted May 7, 2023 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Lunokhod said: No, its not a different people and different nations. The difference is: if you try to do something in Russia, you will be sent to prison where you will be raped in the ass everyday. Thats the difference. Okay, I can't really speak for you as it wouldn't be fair. You are Russian and I am not. However, surely if there are borders and different flags, then Ukraine and Russia are different people, otherwise there wouldn't be borders and different flags? North and South Koreans are both Korean but they are truly different people separated by flags and a very well known (and totally serious) border. The Republic Of Ireland and Northern Ireland have borders and different flags but they are both Irish. And yet they too (along with Great Britain) have had a lot of conflicts throughout history. There are countless more, many of which never make international news. Edited May 7, 2023 by Solaris_Wave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaris_Wave Posted May 7, 2023 Share Posted May 7, 2023 1 minute ago, Image Miroir said: In front of that I'm just speaking about removing the flag of people officially insulting and threatening us, and you consider I'm excessive. The guys speak about eradicating your family, I'm speaking about considering removing the Russian flag in a video game where it has no absolute justification... and you blame me. I am not blaming you at all. All I am getting at, is that in terms of games companies, they don't like to get involved in global politics if they can help it. Some have and have responded to the war. I am not downplaying what is going on. I am angry about what Russia is doing but even then, that will never compare to those that live it everyday. I am miles away from it all…for now at least, unless it escalates. Ultimately, it would be down to THQ to make any such decision on flags but it is unlikely anything like that would happen because it would create trouble for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Image Miroir Posted May 7, 2023 Author Share Posted May 7, 2023 @Solaris_Wave Russia did officially recognized the border and legitimate existence of Ukraine. Even considering Crimea there was never an official claim from Russia, never! It's partly because of that reaction I consider it's not useless. At once people like Lunokhod will start asking themselves "Why?" At first, the answer will be: "Because we're better than us and they're jealous!" but after several years seeing the flag nowhere they'll ask themselves another question: "What we did to deserve that?" Then the process will start. There's no useless opposition, the other alternative is collaboration. What's naive is to believe it's possible to be neutral in front of evil deeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xeth Nyrrow Posted May 7, 2023 Share Posted May 7, 2023 Sir, this is a Wendy's... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Image Miroir Posted May 7, 2023 Author Share Posted May 7, 2023 1 minute ago, Xeth Nyrrow said: Sir, this is a Wendy's... And what is a "Wendy's"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xeth Nyrrow Posted May 7, 2023 Share Posted May 7, 2023 2 minutes ago, Image Miroir said: And what is a "Wendy's"? https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/sir-this-is-a-wendys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Image Miroir Posted May 7, 2023 Author Share Posted May 7, 2023 You're right @Xeth Nyrrow, I admit having "comments that are bizarre or irrelevant", but I've an excuse... I took the red pill. I think moderators should erase this thread, I don't want anyone to sleep badly or worse... to wake up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaris_Wave Posted May 7, 2023 Share Posted May 7, 2023 "Goodbye, Mr. Anderson." 😎 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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