Should Russian flag of mercs get replaced with Ukrainian flag?

[Frank]

I absolutely do not think we should want to erase an entire nation and culture from a work of fiction due to real-life events, no matter how horrific. It is not going help the people of Ukraine in any way and will instead only further the creatively restrictive on-going trend of putting politics first in works of fiction (which in a self-defeating twist is precisely what totalitarian regimes tend to do, just look at the communist principle of 'socialist realism').

As others have pointed out, the Jagged Alliance games take place in what you could call a time-line parallel to our reality. This is to say that they take place in a world that we immediately recognize as our own and is filled with true-to-life objects and concepts (from the items in the game to nations and historical events), yet which also incorporates fictional elements without giving them a second thought, as if Arulco and Grand Chien are just as much a given reality as, say, Great Britain and China.

I very much like this kind of world-building and as such, I don't want the developers to bring me out of my suspense belief by bringing in clear political statements such as suddenly making the Dolvich relatives distinctly not Russian anymore. Igor and Ivan are Russian, and depending on the narrative of Jagged Alliance 3 they will fight under either the Soviet or the Russian flag.

[elenhil]

Moreover, as we know from JA2 source code, chauvinism, sexism, and xenophobia is in the game's DNA :⁠-⁠) Okay, not akl of the above made it into the Vanilla JA2, but I heartily laugh at all its mercs' 'political' likes and hates, e.g. Steroid refusing to work with those Russians (iirc). It takes a lot of real-life stress awat to be able to laugh at these things.

[Image Miroir]

4 hours ago, Godzilla said:

anything I say to you you respond with whataboutism "but Putin"

I just mean, I'm taking the very official Russian point of view, no gossips from unknown, unimportant people.

8 hours ago, Godzilla said:

do you understand that there are two sides at war here, the US and Russia

I do. But does Russia understands it? We're part of a block (NATO), a block that was collapsing because most of its members thought war is a concept that's over between industrialized developed countries. That Russia took Crimea wasn't a problem for NATO, but not that way, not with soldiers. And Putin went further, the mistake of Putin is that he embodies an archetype: the powerful imperialist dictator. Putin revived the concept of Nazi danger. First he thought westerners will be scared by this image. He was someway wrong, it's where Zelensky got a better understanding of that stereotype. Bucha was partly a validation of this stereotype. Be careful, I'm not saying Putin is Hitler, I'm saying he embodies the stereotype.

The consequence is that western Europe is moving away from Russia. Not only Putin revived NATO but he made it larger as Finland entered it officially (and Sweden is on the way). Putin also created a proud and national unity feeling among Ukrainians. He wanted to prevent Ukraine from entering NATO (what most NATO members agreed to), and made Ukraine the fastest country to enter it. For sure you'll say Ukraine is not yet in NATO, but you're wrong. NATO is a standard of interoperability for military forces. What can we observe in Ukraine? They train with all kind of material from all the countries, and they learn to combine these material, working with NATO countries on operational objectives. It's exactly what Ukraine does everyday. So, even if it's not official, Ukraine is a member of NATO, maybe without all advantages but with all the requirements.

Who can believe Ukrainians will go back into Russia sphere of influence? It's lost. One by one every link is cut between Russia and the western world. It's not complete yet, but the dynamic is there. Putin consider he doesn't care, he'll go with China. But what has Russia to offer to China? Without Russia, China remains the second most powerful country in the world. What is Russia without China? A wasteland full of resources but without any client. So, which alliance can really expect Russia? None, Russia is becoming a dominion of China. Worse, some asian countries who were on Russian influence (like Kazakhstan) asked China to protect them in the future. So no doubt in the upcoming decades this "alliance" between Putin and Xi will be remembered as the Kiss of Death.

You speak about naiveness, but who can naively thing Chinese forgot their capital was sacked not only by western countries, but also by Russia? Who ignores the growing number of Chinese in Siberia?

We'll see what Ukrainian counter-offensive will get as result. If Ukraine manages to reconquer part of the territories still lost, it'll be the becoming of the end for Russia. As Putin and Loukachenko are not immortal, Russia will "officially" absorb Bielorussia; because if they don't the country will turn toward west. This will be the last brick on the wall separating Russia from West. So, what? Then China will consume Russia, maybe trading (by the of the 2040s) the full territory of Ukraine and Belarus, against Taiwan.

As you can see, I understand there are two sides, in fact, even more than two sides.

[Solaris_Wave]

All those points are valid. Do you really think that Belorussia would slowly fall under Western influence without Russian absorption, or that Ukraine would fall under Chinese influence?

Edited May 8, 2023 by Solaris_Wave

[Godzilla]

28 minutes ago, Image Miroir said:

I just mean, I'm taking the very official Russian point of view, no gossips from unknown, unimportant people.

I do. But does Russia understands it? We're part of a block (NATO), a block that was collapsing because most of its members thought war is a concept that's over between industrialized developed countries. That Russia took Crimea wasn't a problem for NATO, but not that way, not with soldiers. And Putin went further, the mistake of Putin is that he embodies an archetype: the powerful imperialist dictator. Putin revived the concept of Nazi danger. First he thought westerners will be scared by this image. He was someway wrong, it's where Zelensky got a better understanding of that stereotype. Bucha was partly a validation of this stereotype. Be careful, I'm not saying Putin is Hitler, I'm saying he embodies the stereotype.

The consequence is that western Europe is moving away from Russia. Not only Putin revived NATO but he made it larger as Finland entered it officially (and Sweden is on the way). Putin also created a proud and national unity feeling among Ukrainians. He wanted to prevent Ukraine from entering NATO (what most NATO members agreed to), and made Ukraine the fastest country to enter it. For sure you'll say Ukraine is not yet in NATO, but you're wrong. NATO is a standard of interoperability for military forces. What can we observe in Ukraine? They train with all kind of material from all the countries, and they learn to combine these material, working with NATO countries on operational objectives. It's exactly what Ukraine does everyday. So, even if it's not official, Ukraine is a member of NATO, maybe without all advantages but with all the requirements.

Who can believe Ukrainians will go back into Russia sphere of influence? It's lost. One by one every link is cut between Russia and the western world. It's not complete yet, but the dynamic is there. Putin consider he doesn't care, he'll go with China. But what has Russia to offer to China? Without Russia, China remains the second most powerful country in the world. What is Russia without China? A wasteland full of resources but without any client. So, which alliance can really expect Russia? None, Russia is becoming a dominion of China. Worse, some asian countries who were on Russian influence (like Kazakhstan) asked China to protect them in the future. So no doubt in the upcoming decades this "alliance" between Putin and Xi will be remembered as the Kiss of Death.

You speak about naiveness, but who can naively thing Chinese forgot their capital was sacked not only by western countries, but also by Russia? Who ignores the growing number of Chinese in Siberia?

We'll see what Ukrainian counter-offensive will get as result. If Ukraine manages to reconquer part of the territories still lost, it'll be the becoming of the end for Russia. As Putin and Loukachenko are not immortal, Russia will "officially" absorb Bielorussia; because if they don't the country will turn toward west. This will be the last brick on the wall separating Russia from West. So, what? Then China will consume Russia, maybe trading (by the of the 2040s) the full territory of Ukraine and Belarus, against Taiwan.

As you can see, I understand there are two sides, in fact, even more than two sides.

Its not the cold war anymore and thats the point.

NATO has outlived its usefulness. All that remains is a power hungry empire without any justification other than self perpetuation. In the past the goal is ending communist authoritarianism which on balance was a good goal. Now it appears that the US is on the side of authoritarianism, prosecuting former presidents, impeaching them, using the FBI to target dissidents and people who criticizethe mainstream.

[Godzilla]

11 minutes ago, Solaris_Wave said:

All those points are valid. Do you really think that Belorussia would slowly fall under Western influence without Russian absorption, or that Ukraine would fall under Chinese influence?

Not russian absorption, and belorus isnt as big of a country as ukraine but yes, the western powers want to soowly drain any competition and potential supporters to russia or any other country that poses a threat to them and the established world order with US at the top.

[Image Miroir]

9 minutes ago, Godzilla said:

NATO has outlived its usefulness. All that remains is a power hungry empire without any justification other than self perpetuation.

You're right NATO's justification it's self perpetuation of its members. But until the attack of Ukraine, these members were thinking they don't need NATO for their perpetuation. It's the mistake of Putin: being that persuasive he could be a threat for European countries. The US took advantage of that, first they just wanted to weaken Russia and motivate Europeans to rearm themselves. Putin went so much beyond US objectives that I wonder sometime if he's not the highest ranked CIA double-agent.

34 minutes ago, Godzilla said:

Now it appears that the US is on the side of authoritarianism

I don't think the US really changed since early colonization. The were religious extremist and even if not that religious anymore they still carry some form of extremism. Still, individual freedom is at a much higher level than in Russia.

36 minutes ago, Godzilla said:

the western powers want to soowly drain any competition and potential supporters to russia or any other country that poses a threat to them and the established world order with US at the top

I agree with that point of view, but threatening and weakening European countries, Russia enforced the American design. No almost all European countries are convinced Russia wants to attack them, and Putin is the strongest promoter of this idea.

In the early 2000s many westerners (me included) were thinking Russia would enter the EU soon or later. We were far from being Russian-haters! But Russian politicians grew afraid of democracy, thinking they'll loose their advantages... and power. I think Putin gathered these politicians around him and developed some kind of neo-bolchevism.

What Putin did was not stupid, but getting older, obsessed by entering history books, he attacked Ukraine too early, with too much overconfidence, and not enough firepower. Given that he had too accept his mistake and sign one month after the beginning of the invasion a peace treaty with Zelezny. The Ukrainian president was agree with that, at that time. Russia then would officially get Crimea and eastern territories.

Now, it's a whole different story. Over 50,000 Russian soldiers died loosing more and more territories, destroying at the same time like never before the army. Ukrainian grew so strong they became an opposition force to Russia on its south western border. Worse, to sign a peace treaty Putin would have to change the constitution.

For sure, the episode to be released: "The Return of the Ukrainians" will decide the nature of the "upcoming episodes"...

[Godzilla]

44 minutes ago, Image Miroir said:

In the early 2000s many westerners (me included) were thinking Russia would enter the EU soon or later. We were far from being Russian-haters! But Russian politicians grew afraid of democracy, thinking they'll loose their advantages... and power. I think Putin gathered these politicians around him and developed some kind of neo-bolchevism.

Democracy...a nice idea, if it existed.

How did Zelenskyy get elected with the help of kolomosky and why was Biden caught on tape telling a ukranian president in 2012 or 2014 that hell give him 1 billion dollars but only if he changes his supreme court head lawyer.

Democracy is easily controllable. This is why I dont put too big of a stake in it and why I dont see todays America as nothing more than a deliberately obscured authoritarian power that is so corrupt and controlled that calling it a democracy is pointless, even if there is so-called voting. Basically its a sham. Most news stations promote a single pro establishment point of view, most parties are highly corrupt, and you cant attain power if thepower brokers in media, the two parties, or elsewhere dont want you to.

[Martin]

NONONO... I am so so much pro Ukraine kicking out warmongering russians out of Ukraine´s land. But no this game is set in 2001 so historicaly it does not make sence... as a gesture? no no it would be pointless as Russia gets nothing from the flag being in the game... Ukraine would earn nothing from that too... it would just be pissing some people off and I mean not even russians... trust me I am the most anti russian imperialist current actions and I think Putin and other war criminals like the girl stealing Ukrainian childern and reeducating them to hating Ukraine and their parents... I think they should be triled in The Hague. Even I dont want to have the flags censored or changet to ukrainian trust me its a bad idea... If me... the devoted supporter of Ukraine and hater of imperialist russia dont want that... dont do that... it would be pointles with no purpose.. only empty gesture... I was even driving suplies to Ukraine and brought 1 family of Mom and 2 daughters to my home.. hell I can ask them on their opinion... trust me its not a good idea. Keep the game detached please... I am sure the Bulgarian devs are anti russian and even anti Soviet... Boyan even said in the last dev stream that Bulgaria had some unfinished business with Soviet occupation... DONT DO IT bad Idea... it would even look like virtue signaling and would be taken badly even by UA supporters... I mean some EXTREME anti russians would want that but the majority would not. And I am even aginst russian flags in sports cause they would use it for propaganda like they did at the begining of occupation with the wrestling guy wearing Z and stuff. Not here... dont do it here.

[Godzilla]

7 minutes ago, Martin said:

NONONO... I am so so much pro Ukraine kicking out warmongering russians out of Ukraine´s land. But no this game is set in 2001 so historicaly it does not make sence... as a gesture? no no it would be pointless as Russia gets nothing from the flag being in the game... Ukraine would earn nothing from that too... it would just be pissing some people off and I mean not even russians... trust me I am the most anti russian imperialist current actions and I think Putin and other war criminals like the girl stealing Ukrainian childern and reeducating them to hating Ukraine and their parents... I think they should be triled in The Hague. Even I dont want to have the flags censored or changet to ukrainian trust me its a bad idea... If me... the devoted supporter of Ukraine and hater of imperialist russia dont want that... dont do that... it would be pointles with no purpose.. only empty gesture... I was even driving suplies to Ukraine and brought 1 family of Mom and 2 daughters to my home.. hell I can ask them on their opinion... trust me its not a good idea. Keep the game detached please... I am sure the Bulgarian devs are anti russian and even anti Soviet... Boyan even said in the last dev stream that Bulgaria had some unfinished business with Soviet occupation... DONT DO IT bad Idea... it would even look like virtue signaling and would be taken badly even by UA supporters... I mean some EXTREME anti russians would want that but the majority would not. And I am even aginst russian flags in sports cause they would use it for propaganda like they did at the begining of occupation with the wrestling guy wearing Z and stuff. Not here... dont do it here.

Facepalm

You take all this time to educate one brainwashed person another comes fresh off the line 😆😆😆😆😭

But I agree with the rest. I dont think its a good idea at all to start insulting giant countries and lying to do it.

 

Edited May 8, 2023 by Godzilla

[Martin]

16 minutes ago, Godzilla said:

Democracy...a nice idea, if it existed.

How did Zelenskyy get elected with the help of kolomosky and why was Biden caught on tape telling a ukranian president in 2012 or 2014 that hell give him 1 billion dollars but only if he changes his supreme court head lawyer.

Democracy is easily controllable. This is why I dont put too big of a stake in it and why I dont see todays America as nothing more than a deliberately obscured authoritarian power that is so corrupt and controlled that calling it a democracy is pointless, even if there is so-called voting. Basically its a sham. Most news stations promote a single pro establishment point of view, most parties are highly corrupt, and you cant attain power if thepower brokers in media, the two parties, or elsewhere dont want you to.

Yeah sure... basicaly Democracy is the best system people thought of. It is easy to hate on democracy but there is no better system.. and yes it has flaws. The democracy you described is something russia does... Voting as the core system in america is legit and there was never a single clue that it was a scam. The news leveraging pople? yeah that might be true but then tell me why Trump could win the elections if all the news were aginst him.. lol. I guess you are aginst Ukraine too but what you dont know is that the people want Democracy and you telling them they are wrong and democracy is wrong is so stupid... it is still better than what russia has or keeping the russian style corruption functioning. UA joining the western world will make their incredible corruption getting less and less occuring. If they want to join EU they will have to make it right... 

[Martin]

4 minutes ago, Godzilla said:

Facepalm

You take all this time to educate one brainwashed person another comes fresh off the line 😆😆😆😆😭

But I agree with the rest. I dont think its a good idea at all to start insulting giant countries and lying to do it.

 

Well how would you know if you are brainwashed if you are brainwashed... bro you sound like the basic Russian western tankie if you are not directly Russian that is... It is clear that russia is in the wrong here cause they attacked lol there is no doubt in healthy persons mind about that... I made the argument cause I hate that there is one side and other side and no middle ground... if the guy above is brainwashed you sound like abrainwashed guy too... I mean think for yourself and stop giving big countries like USA and Russia your ass for free use... just because they are big country and have nukes doesnt mean they are allways right and untouchable... if you make that argument you are just as brainwashed as the people exterminating everything russian lol ... stop it and be reasonable... dont trust every news story but dont be sceptic over every last new story either you feel me? makes you a better person and not just being aginst everything and just for laughs taking the side of tyrants... I will gladly debate you on that... trust me I am ginst superpowers like US Russia China and so on they have their own agenda and doesnt care about people of Ukraine and so on... I know what Ukrainians want cause I fucken know tons of them and fucken live with them... even work with them... well... thanks for reading lul 😄 

[Image Miroir]

6 minutes ago, Godzilla said:

Democracy...a nice idea, if it existed.

Call it the way you want but almost Russian millionaires and billionaires enjoy living in Western countries while no Western millionaire or billionaire want to live in Russian. So whatever its name, our hell is much better than yours.

10 minutes ago, Godzilla said:

How did Zelenskyy get elected with the help of kolomosky and why was Biden caught on tape telling a ukranian president in 2012 or 2014 that hell give him 1 billion dollars but only if he changes his supreme court head lawyer.

If you believe in this story it only means Russia was not able to gather 2 billions to get Ukraine. Then you mean Putin is stupid because at the end he lost several dozen of billions and over 50,000 soldiers to get only 17% of Ukraine.

If you attack and you loose, you're a double idiot. The whole world was amazed seeing Russian army worth so few. After 15 months of war, Ukraine is stronger than it ever was and could defeat Russia on the battlefield. The Great Russia beaten by worthless (the Ukrainians) and degenerates (the Westerners), if it happens I'll have to end my laughing crisis with champagne!

33 minutes ago, Godzilla said:

Democracy is easily controllable.

Then Russia should try it.

34 minutes ago, Godzilla said:

America as nothing more than a deliberately obscured authoritarian power that is so corrupt and controlled that calling it a democracy is pointless, even if there is so-called voting.

As I told you before, whatever you call it our shit is so much better than yours. Even right now, to post you use the American internet. I'm even sure you prefer our shit to yours, you're just to scared to end-up cleaning the snow in Siberia next winter to admit it.

[Godzilla]

1 hour ago, Image Miroir said:

 

Then Russia should try it.

?

Did you even understand what I wrote to you?
You said the west has democracy I said no it doesnt and few places have democracy you basically replied with "uhuh yep so lets talk about football" lol what

And russia does have a sham democracy just as much as the west does. They're just slightly worse at hiding it.

Edited May 8, 2023 by Godzilla

[Image Miroir]

12 minutes ago, Martin said:

Well how would you know if you are brainwashed if you are brainwashed

Very good statement, how could I know I'm not brainwashed? First I do consider Western countries are under Western propaganda. Then I do consider I'm under influence. Still, a few days before attacking Ukraine, Putin was still saying he had no intention to invade Ukraine...

49 minutes ago, Martin said:

I made the argument cause I hate that there is one side and other side and no middle ground...

I'm not sure there's a middle side in all stories. What's for sure is the winner will get the pen to write the whole story.

 

57 minutes ago, Martin said:

I am ginst superpowers like US Russia China and so on they have their own agenda and doesnt care about people

I'm living on planet Earth so I don't understand what you say as here, all powers, not just superpowers, behave the way you mention. Maybe in Neverwhere it's different, but here all countries have their own agenda.

[Image Miroir]

33 minutes ago, Godzilla said:

Did you even understand what I wrote to you?

Yes I did, but I disagree with you. People can protest and oppose their government and leaders in all western countries. In Russia, just saying "Russia invaded Ukraine and run their a dirty war" can make you being judged... and sentenced.

Look at Russian history, between the creation of the country until now, there was barely 10 years of democracy (between 1991 and 2001). Putin-Medvedev, then Medvedev-Putin, then Putin again... it's a comedy.

Russian people just don't understand nor believe freedom exists. They live with chains and imagine everyone does.

[Lunokhod]

19 minutes ago, Image Miroir said:

Russian people just don't understand nor believe freedom exists. They live with chains and imagine everyone does.

Russian people have some shit to do. They are trying to survive. This place is about survival u know what I mean. Dont come here unnecessarily, dangerous place.

[Godzilla]

29 minutes ago, Image Miroir said:

Yes I did, but I disagree with you. People can protest and oppose their government and leaders in all western countries. In Russia, just saying "Russia invaded Ukraine and run their a dirty war" can make you being judged... and sentenced.

Look at Russian history, between the creation of the country until now, there was barely 10 years of democracy (between 1991 and 2001). Putin-Medvedev, then Medvedev-Putin, then Putin again... it's a comedy.

Russian people just don't understand nor believe freedom exists. They live with chains and imagine everyone does.

No you didntlisten to a thing I said, otherwise you wouldve been able to respond appropriately.

Youre the only one living with chains here pal. Yeah its so hard for russians to live with all of these chains of not being influenced and controlled by a major superpower or unipolar superpower like the US oh yeah wow the control is truly next level 😆

Dont get me wrong Putin isnt the nicest of guys, I just think in this case he's in the right when it comes to to responding to western aggression influence and intervention.

Edited May 8, 2023 by Godzilla

[Sarin]

40 minutes ago, Godzilla said:

?

Did you even understand what I wrote to you?
You said the west has democracy I said no it doesnt and few places have democracy you basically replied with "uhuh yep so lets talk about football" lol what

And russia does have a sham democracy just as much as the west does. They're just slightly worse at hiding it.

And here it is. A triumph of a hundred years of propaganda, convincing people that every country, every government is just as bad as Russian one, that democracy doesn't work and west is just better at hiding it.

Let me tell you one thing. My country has plenty of experience with both Russian (respectively Soviet) tyranny and actually being a free, democratic country allied to the "western" governments. My parents and grandparents lived through both and have had plenty of first-hand experience to compare, so it's not just "propaganda", but actual experience saying this: Russia is just messed up. Whether we're talking about personal freedoms, participation in governing the country or economic factors, those forty years being a Soviet proxy were hell compared to either interwar republic or post-Soviet times. Not every country is hell-bent on dominating others like Russia, not every country has so messed up pseudo-fascist political system and while in some "western" countries, democracy barely works...even at its lowest it's much better than being Russian satellite.

 

Now to the topic at hand...I support Ukraine and I support the removal of Russian sportspeople from international competitions and other measures taken against Russian propaganda, but not things like this.

Russia inherited and happily continues Soviet propaganda traditions, among which is considering international sports competitions primarily as a propaganda outlet where they can show dominance over other nations, rather than a fair competition between individuals or teams. This thinking led to creation of organized, state sponsored doping in Soviet Union, which Russia continues, as evidenced by quite recent, unprecedented penalties to Russia on the international scene.

Since the war began, we've seen several cases where individual Russians used their time in the spotlight to support the Russian invasion. And I'm fully supportive of measures taken to remove the Russian propaganda. But this game isn't going to be that. It's taking place before the Russia began the hostilities in 2014, and no mercenary is affiliated with Putin's regime. There's no reason to take such measures.

[Kordanor]

Sorry, didnt read through all replies here.

But imho the Russian flag should stay. It's just the history of the game.

However I think that the hammer and sickle should be removed from Ivan's hat. That actually hasn't been a part of his hat before and is unnecessary.

Also we do have an Ukrainian Merc now, which I think is quite cool.

[Godzilla]

10 minutes ago, Sarin said:

And here it is. A triumph of a hundred years of propaganda, convincing people that every country, every government is just as bad as Russian one, that democracy doesn't work and west is just better at hiding it.

Propaganda = truth it appears then?

The only triumph of propaganda here is you, being brainwashed into thinking your vote actually matters or that both the television controls what issues get discussed and both parties control who you get to vote on and choose from.

Its a false choice. But you dont seem very educated so you probably arent aware of anything Ive just told you 😉

 

10 minutes ago, Sarin said:

Let me tell you one thing. My country has plenty of experience with both Russian (respectively Soviet) tyranny and actually being a free, democratic country allied to the "western" governments. My parents and grandparents lived through both and have had plenty of first-hand experience to compare, so it's not just "propaganda", but actual experience saying this: Russia is just messed up. Whether we're talking about personal freedoms, participation in governing the country or economic factors, those forty years being a Soviet proxy were hell compared to either interwar republic or post-Soviet times. Not every country is hell-bent on dominating others like Russia, not every country has so messed up pseudo-fascist political system and while in some "western" countries, democracy barely works...even at its lowest it's much better than being Russian satellite.

Cool story, dont care. Your country had a history of one land lord, called the soviet union, and it has a history of another landlord called the united states. Better get your money, rent is due 😆

Edited May 8, 2023 by Godzilla

[Godzilla]

Just now, Kordanor said:

Sorry, didnt read through all replies here.

But imho the Russian flag should stay. It's just the history of the game.

However I think that the hammer and sickle should be removed from Ivan's hat. That actually hasn't been a part of his hat before and is unnecessary.

Also we do have an Ukrainian Merc now, which I think is quite cool.

Im not offended by the USSR symbol though Im not a fan of it. Later USSR became a very different thing compared to early USSR. Still not very free, but not entirely communistveither.

[Sarin]

2 minutes ago, Godzilla said:

The only triumph here is you, being brainwashed into thinking your vote actually matters or that both the television controls what issues get discussed and both parties control who you get to vote on and choose from.

Its a false choice. But you dont seem very educated so you probably arent aware of anything Ive just told you 😉

 

Cool story, dont care. Your country had a history of one land lord, called the soviet union, and it has a history of another landlord called the united states. Better get your money, rent is due 😆

 

See how laden with propaganda misconceptions you are? You don't even know what country I'm talking about, you instantly jumped to conclusion that it's working on a two-party system without independent media. Here's a hint, neither is true about my country or vast majority of the "western" countries. The only place that comes close to it, but even then it maintain some media polarity and independence, is USA.

 

You don't know anything about the world outside your own, messed up country, and it shows.

[Godzilla]

Just now, Sarin said:

 

See how laden with propaganda misconceptions you are? You don't even know what country I'm talking about, you instantly jumped to conclusion that it's working on a two-party system without independent media. Here's a hint, neither is true about my country or vast majority of the "western" countries. The only place that comes close to it, but even then it maintain some media polarity and independence, is USA.

 

You don't know anything about the world outside your own, messed up country, and it shows.

No.

I dont see it.

😆😆 Youre the most obviously bad faith troll Ive encountered on this board which is saying something.

[Godzilla]

Oh and btw I dont need to know which country youre talking about. I just made an educated guess. Was I wrong? I dont know but you are being awfully quiet!! 😆😆😆😆

btw sarin...im not russian. But it sounds like you're quite a bit hostile to russia, arent you?

Edited May 8, 2023 by Godzilla