We need "Bobby Ray" shop!

[DougS2K]

28 minutes ago, Lunokhod said:

100%. But u still need some traders to sell enemies weapons. There is no deficit of guns in Grand Chien. Actually will be interesting if u had to arm militia yourself. But its too hard for Haemimonts.

Yes, she has her own store in Cacao Port.

Any images of Granny acting as a vendor? I've seen Granny several times now on YouTube but never actually selling weapons. Maybe it just wasn't implemented at the time and still needed to be added.

[Lunokhod]

U know guys i read alot how people want every JA2 character copy/paste to JA3, even as sucks as Flo. And disagree with them. But I think Haywire in his Tommy Bahama shirt(somehow he looks very classic) as new Micky O'Brien fit very well to JA3 with black market of guns after war in Arulco. And will be awesome if he got one copy of rocket rifle. It will be great easter egg. And its logical.
But as always its too hard for Haemimonts. They need more BASE KNOWLAGE of JA2.

[Kordanor]

+1 For Haywire but please no Rocket Guns ^^

Haven't seen Granny as Vendor yet. I think she is relatively far in the game and the shop shown there I think was shown in the Developer Stream and they didnt want to trigger any dialogues.

[DougS2K]

9 minutes ago, Kordanor said:

+1 For Haywire but please no Rocket Guns ^^

Haven't seen Granny as Vendor yet. I think she is relatively far in the game and the shop shown there I think was shown in the Developer Stream and they didnt want to trigger any dialogues.

She is found down in Port Cacao I believe or one of the adjoining sectors so not that far in.

[Solaris_Wave]

The size of those axes on the wall are huge compared to the rifles.

I am now also wondering whether guns can be sold or whether they all get turned into available scrap? I still think that idea is a bad one. Why would I be able to build a 6x telescopic sight or an MP5 out of a disassembled SKS rifle?

Need a suppressor for your M4 carbine? Just dismantle that Smith & Wesson revolver you no longer need. Suppressors and revolvers are just like one another, I guess.

[Kordanor]

5 minutes ago, DougS2K said:

She is found down in Port Cacao I believe or one of the adjoining sectors so not that far in.

Yeah, with relatively far I mean outside of what streamers will have shown during their first 12h.

I don't have any issues with the dismantling of items. If you don't like that, you also probably hated the McGyver Stuff in JA2 or where you just attach a clumb of metal to Weapons in JA1.

[DougS2K]

7 minutes ago, Solaris_Wave said:

The size of those axes on the wall are huge compared to the rifles.

I am now also wondering whether guns can be sold or whether they all get turned into available scrap? I still think that idea is a bad one. Why would I be able to build a 6x telescopic sight or an MP5 out of a disassembled SKS rifle?

Need a suppressor for your M4 carbine? Just dismantle that Smith & Wesson revolver you no longer need. Suppressors and revolvers are just like one another, I guess.

It really is a bizarre system. Wish they'd ditch crafting altogether.

[DougS2K]

Just now, Kordanor said:

Yeah, with relatively far I mean outside of what streamers will have shown during their first 12h.

I don't have any issues with the dismantling of items. If you don't like that, you also probably hated the McGyver Stuff in JA2 or where you just attach a clumb of metal to Weapons in JA1.

I didn't mind it in JA2 because it was done in moderation. There really wasn't all that much you could craft other than suppressors that wore out, springs for better fire rate, barrel extenders, etc. You could still purchase weapon mods in addition though and swap them between weapons in JA2 which is simply not possible at all in JA3. 🙁

[Solaris_Wave]

It was done in moderation, as @DougS2K says and also, slightly tongue in cheek. It seems that JA3 has taken a little, optional side quest and gimmick, and made it a fundamental part of the game.

It just feels too much like The A-Team. Why should I be able to build an armoured personnel carrier out of bed springs, sheet metal and a lawn mower?

[Kordanor]

These were elemental parts in JA1/2 as well though. Especially the Compound 17, and the weapon mods. But you also had things like a scanner which "magically" shows all enemies on the map, put together with a display and an X-Ray Unit...and some Batteries of course.
Also don't forget the killer robot. Well, its put together by some NPC, but still, we were talking about "realism".

Personally I prefer to be a bit more "down to earth". For me personally I dont need a killer robot, a magical scanner or rocket guns, but I am fine with "generic" components which can be used for multiple things.

Edited June 19, 2023 by Kordanor

[DougS2K]

5 minutes ago, Kordanor said:

These were elemental parts in JA1/2 as well though. Especially the Compound 17, and the weapon mods. But you also had things like a scanner which "magically" shows all enemies on the map, put together with a display and an X-Ray Unit...and some Batteries of course.
Also don't forget the killer robot. Well, its put together by some NPC, but still, we were talking about "realism".

Personally I prefer to be a bit more "down to earth". For me personally I dont need a killer robot, a magical scanner or rocket guns, but I am fine with "generic" components which can be used for multiple things.

Down to earth makes sense and I'm all for that as well. Making a scope for a FAL using scrapped parts from an AK47 isn't really down to earth though. 😁

[Solaris_Wave]

I agree, a lot of JA2 was pretty far-fetched (and some of it I chose to avoid, if I was aware of it, due to it going too far from what I was playing the game for). The thing is, for me, I would prefer to buy or find weapons and equipment. Then, with existing weapons, I can break those down to use as parts for the weapons I am using. Ammo is different. That could be hand loaded and matched for more consistent performance.

[Solaris_Wave]

Also, why shouldn't you be able to remove the mods and attachments for guns? I know I have said this before a few times but if you can create a gun (which is multiple parts put together) using scrap, why can't you remove anything? That laser sight you somehow made from the wooden stock of an M1 carbine, why can't that be removed? You put it on a gun easily enough (and made it all from wood). How can you not know how to take the bloody thing off?

Edited June 19, 2023 by Solaris_Wave

[D13]

22 minutes ago, Solaris_Wave said:

Also, why shouldn't you be able to remove the mods and attachments for guns?

That one I cannot understand at all.

I try to view every questionable design decision from a game mechanic or balancing point of view. That way, I can at least explain the decision for turning scrap metal into spacecraft (more efficient inventory, less time spent sorting through items), whether I agree with it or not. But not being able to remove attachments? I see no benefit at all, except perhaps making the game slightly more difficult.

[Solaris_Wave]

How about this scenario:

You have just used up all of your scrap, adding every possible and desired attachment to your weapon of choice. One item in particular needed a lot of scrap to make but you really like the gun and can see it being fielded for a long time.

The next battle takes place and as an outcome, you are presented with a brand new gun. It is even better than the one you were currently using and will be your new weapon of choice. Now to swap as many attachments over to the new gun. Only you can't, because they have somehow been fused to the gun you were previously using, with a combination of the world's strongest glue, welding equipment and The Great Forge Of Valhalla (which I've just made up). You swear and realise that you have to start the process of finding lots more scrap so you will eventually have enough to create every attachment all over again, particularly that one item that needed lots of scrap to make.

Finally, you now have every attachment you need, built once more and now installed on your new gun. It took a long time but you know that this gun is going to last you a long time and will be worth it.

The next battle takes place and as an outcome, you are presented with a brand new gun. It is even better than the one you were currently using and will be your new weapon of choice. Now to swap as many attachments over to the new gun…

 

Now imagine doing that for every different merc and you can appreciate why us British have the word, 'Bollocks'.

[DougS2K]

3 hours ago, Solaris_Wave said:

How about this scenario:

You have just used up all of your scrap, adding every possible and desired attachment to your weapon of choice. One item in particular needed a lot of scrap to make but you really like the gun and can see it being fielded for a long time.

The next battle takes place and as an outcome, you are presented with a brand new gun. It is even better than the one you were currently using and will be your new weapon of choice. Now to swap as many attachments over to the new gun. Only you can't, because they have somehow been fused to the gun you were previously using, with a combination of the world's strongest glue, welding equipment and The Great Forge Of Valhalla (which I've just made up). You swear and realise that you have to start the process of finding lots more scrap so you will eventually have enough to create every attachment all over again, particularly that one item that needed lots of scrap to make.

Finally, you now have every attachment you need, built once more and now installed on your new gun. It took a long time but you know that this gun is going to last you a long time and will be worth it.

The next battle takes place and as an outcome, you are presented with a brand new gun. It is even better than the one you were currently using and will be your new weapon of choice. Now to swap as many attachments over to the new gun…

 

Now imagine doing that for every different merc and you can appreciate why us British have the word, 'Bollocks'.

This is exactly the problem we will all have. Also the crafting mechanic has a roll success chance system based on the mechanic skill of the merc, so another thing to consider is all the scrap your wasting on failed upgrades due to this roll success chance system. The other problem with this roll mechanic in the crafting system is it will lead to people save scumming so they don't end up wasting scrap when the crafting fails. We all know save scumming is not a fun gameplay mechanic but if your burning through all this scrap just to mod weapons your constantly coming across since you can't transfer weapon mods, then your going to need all the scrap you can get.

[Solaris_Wave]

That prospect makes it sound even worse.

[Claypl]

Personally I dont mind some of the crafting aspects of the new JA but the gear modifications definitely look like it has gone through couple too many streamlining passes with everything reduced to scrap management. Whilst having couple resource types make this little bit more digestible but as some stated it does lead to some ridiculous equipment repurposing. Also agreed that detachable attachments would make a lot of sense.

For the main topic, I actually do not see much problems with absence of the Bobby. If replaced with multiple shops in various locations we might end up with good enough shopping system. One of these things that we have to playthrough to see how it worked out.

[Kordanor]

7 hours ago, DougS2K said:

This is exactly the problem we will all have. Also the crafting mechanic has a roll success chance system based on the mechanic skill of the merc, so another thing to consider is all the scrap your wasting on failed upgrades due to this roll success chance system. The other problem with this roll mechanic in the crafting system is it will lead to people save scumming so they don't end up wasting scrap when the crafting fails. We all know save scumming is not a fun gameplay mechanic but if your burning through all this scrap just to mod weapons your constantly coming across since you can't transfer weapon mods, then your going to need all the scrap you can get.

Yeah, the roll for success is also something I don't like either. I mean it's the same in previous games, but I would always just load.

This is a mechanic which only ever makes sense in roguelites/roguelites/ironman games where you can't reload, but I doubt many players will play the game on full ironman.

[Jaywalker]

13 hours ago, D13 said:

But not being able to remove attachments? I see no benefit at all, except perhaps making the game slightly more difficult.

This is the same exact model from Wasteland 3, with the exception of Wasteland also allowing you to find the attachment directly and make it craftable as a separate unlock.

The problem here is as follows:

1. To make looting enemies more fun (for a modern audience), they must drop more and better loot, i.e.: their guns.
2. To make that loot valuable without permanent access to merchants (you can only use 6 guns per squad at a time and don't need siedarms at all), it needs to be recyclable in some capacity i.e.: dissolve into a usable currency "parts".
3. To keep the "parts" economy from massive inflation, you need to make it "sink" somewhere, hence: the attachments are a one-way upgrade and not a permanent conversion/investment.

All of this is increasing "abstraction" for the sake of gameplay at the expense of authenticity ("rod and spring" made of junk wasn't realistic, but it was "authentic" in that a skilled mechanic could potentially fashion a makeshift upgrade for a weapon).

[Povok]

1 hour ago, Kordanor said:

Yeah, the roll for success is also something I don't like either. I mean it's the same in previous games, but I would always just load.

I see no problem in roll for sucess (even if the item is going to be damaged in the process). I see a problem in destroying the item if unsucsessful.

IMO destroying the item is just going to increase the number of "loads per try".

[D13]

Now that I've thought about it a bit more - JA2 also had gun attachments that could not be removed/reused. Spring&Bolt, gun barrel extender(?), and possibly some others? And I was surprised to learn that installing the Spring&Bolt could damage both the attachment and the gun, I guess it just never happened to me.

Good point about the parts inflation. Maybe fixed attachments will even work out nicely and force the player to make more difficult decisions (gun with great attachment vs. better gun without attachment). I hope it will outweigh the unrealistic and somewhat counterintuitive behavior.

I don't know Wasteland, but with a name like that, I would expect everything to be made of scrap 🙂

[Solaris_Wave]

Installing those handmade attachments in JA2 was a classic example of saving the game before trying it.

Wasteland and Fallout having a scrap system makes sense. They are both post-apocalypse settings where everything is left over from before and much of it is cobbled together. JA3 is set in roughly the present day and the scrap system doesn't make sense. If you were just replacing springs, pins and screws or identical parts, it makes sense. Making a bazooka out of a left over bipod is higher fantasy than either Fallout and Wasteland.

[Raeven]

58 minutes ago, Solaris_Wave said:

Installing those handmade attachments in JA2 was a classic example of saving the game before trying it.

Wasteland and Fallout having a scrap system makes sense. They are both post-apocalypse settings where everything is left over from before and much of it is cobbled together. JA3 is set in roughly the present day and the scrap system doesn't make sense. If you were just replacing springs, pins and screws or identical parts, it makes sense. Making a bazooka out of a left over bipod is higher fantasy than either Fallout and Wasteland.

We also do not know if that is what is being designed. 

There's no evidence that you can turn 'bed springs into an APC'. What have we confirmed you can craft with parts so far? What's actually on the list?

[Kordanor]

Well, its not too far fetched and kinda confirmed if you put it that way.

If you want to build some scope you need materials and a lense. And you can get materials from multiple sources. That can be some object in the world (I dont know...lets say a defunct tractor) or some item you disassemble. The important part, the lense however can only be found or maybe bought.

You could argue that in Jagged Alliance 2 these additional screws and nuts were pulled from thin air, while in JA2 you have them as parts. But on the other hand you seem to need them for everything in that regard.