Inventory system poll.

[DougS2K]

I've seen a lot of discussion about inventory over the past few months and while it's probably to late to make changes even if the devs were willing to, I'm curious what everyone thinks about the inventory system or which they prefer.

Personally, I love the JA2 1.13 style but I know it's not for everyone. That being said, I really dislike the shared inventory for ammo and find it wildly unrealistic.

[Reloecc]

I voted 2, but I'd vote 2.5 if possible: Something more than vanilla, but not so wild as 1.13.

[DougS2K]

3 minutes ago, Reloecc said:

I voted 2, but I'd vote 2.5 if possible: Something more than vanilla, but not so wild as 1.13.

What part about 1.13 is it that you don't like exactly? I know some people have said they don't like customizing chest rigs and such so I'm guessing maybe it's that but not sure.

[Remi1987]

Option-2. (I'm not aware of option-3)

What made it annoying in JA2 in the topic of resource collection, sorting etc., was the amount of crap items like rock, elastic, steel pipe, etc. It that can all be bundled that's another solution. Seperate parts for weapon modding, like lense, steel pipe and what not BUT not all in inventory slots.

Shared inventory is a terrible idea because it removes the possibility of a merc running out of ammo while another merc still has. I want to have this game element.

[DougS2K]

3 minutes ago, Remi1987 said:

Option-2. (I'm not aware of option-3)

What made it annoying in JA2 in the topic of resource collection, sorting etc., was the amount of crap items like rock, elastic, steel pipe, etc. It that can all be bundled that's another solution. Seperate parts for weapon modding, like lense, steel pipe and what not BUT not all in inventory slots.

Good point. I forgot about all the other little items in JA2. Sorting and sifting through all that was a bit of a pain. 

3 minutes ago, Remi1987 said:

Shared inventory is a terrible idea because it removes the possibility of a merc running out of ammo while another merc still has. I want to have this game element.

Couldn't agree more.

[Stuurminator]

I'm going to wait until I play JA3 so I can see what option 1 is like in practice.

My kneejerk response is to prefer option 2, but if I take the time to look back on my time playing not just this but any tactical combat game, I can't remember a time that ammo or medical supply distribution has had a meaningful effect on my game. Maybe it's just been busywork all along and I never realized it.

[Reloecc]

25 minutes ago, DougS2K said:

What part about 1.13 is it that you don't like exactly? I know some people have said they don't like customizing chest rigs and such so I'm guessing maybe it's that but not sure.

I quote myself from another thread:

1.13 LBE is too horrizontal for me. I'd welcome vests, backpacks and pouches. But I don't want to unequip backpacks during combat, to unzip them, and store packs in packs in pack to save a space. ~Three universal vests with vertical progression (more slots), ~three spcialized vests (grenadier, medic, ammo carrier), three holsters (pistol + mag, pistol + 3 mags, small submachine + mag), three backpacks (small, medium, large) and I am ok

I don't need more. I don't need two types of backpacks, especially while they are not compatible together. I don't need waist bag backpacks, 15 types of vests and holsetrs, etc.

[Jaywalker]

TBH, this poll is missing the absolute best solution: JA: Flashback

Flashback had a good compromise where it wasn't the LBE porn of 1.13, but there was still merit to different types of armor/clothing based on the number of "quickslots" they unlocked for your character to access grenades and med-kits during combat (and while individual mags were absent, everyone still had to carry their personal share of ammo).

Edited May 26, 2023 by Jaywalker

[DougS2K]

5 minutes ago, Reloecc said:

I quote myself from another thread:

1.13 LBE is too horrizontal for me. I'd welcome vests, backpacks and pouches. But I don't want to unequip backpacks during combat, to unzip them, and store packs in packs in pack to save a space. ~Three universal vests with vertical progression (more slots), ~three spcialized vests (grenadier, medic, ammo carrier), three holsters (pistol + mag, pistol + 3 mags, small submachine + mag), three backpacks (small, medium, large) and I am ok

I don't need more. I don't need two types of backpacks, especially while they are not compatible together. I don't need waist bag backpacks, 15 types of vests and holsetrs, etc.

That makes sense and I agree with the dropping backpacks and putting full backpacks in backpacks. I actually forgot about these aspects but I wasn't a fan of these "features" either.

[Hongweibing]

Voted for the vanilla JA2 option. It was definitely an improvement over JA1 and DG, and perhaps my only problem with it was that it was a bit too generous in terms of space, but it's a game, after all. I played JA2 1.13 once, and the system felt too overwhelming for me, didn't have the patience for all that granularity, it reminded me too much of organizing things in real life - not something I wish to see in a game. The problem with the JA3 system is that it doesn't make much sense - the number of slots is defined by one's strength, but obviously, size does not necessarily equal weight. Now, I realize that they are unlikely to change the system, but a fairly easy way to make it more similar to JA2 would be to set the same number of slots for everyone (no need to redesign them), but introduce weight as a factor (which really only requires assigning a weight to all items, and defining how much weight one may carry per point of strength). As for the shared inventory, I'm fine with it for miscellaneous items, quest items, spare parts etc., but ammo and medical kits should be in each merc's inventory.

[Solaris_Wave]

I voted for option 3 but ideally, I would go with anything between options 2 and 3.

I think that if an item is in your backpack, you can retrieve it but it takes a whole turn's worth of action points to do it. You are, after all, removing the backpack to retrieve something. Once you have performed that action of accessing your backpack, you can possibly take out as much as possible in that turn, without additional AP being spent. Once the turn ends, it counts as if the pack is once again on the mercenary's back.

I would have liked to have seen bandoliers and ammo bags that would allow a greater amount of loose ammo to be carried (shotgun rounds, 40mm grenades). A medical kit would contain multiple bandages.

I thought about holsters for handguns and sheathes for knives, going into detail in my Weapon Characteristics thread but as I continued to write it, I thought it could get fiddly. This is because, not everyone would have a holster in the same place. It could be on your thigh, on your hip, on your chest and so on. In the end, I thought it best to have that particular item as invisible and to just make it so that all handguns and knives that are not in the backpack can be put into the merc's hand(s) for less action points, to simulate quickly drawing from a holster, if the primary weapon jams or needs reloading.

Making the holsters invisible in this sense would also make it more simple for the mercs that dual-wield pistols and machine pistols.

[Solaris_Wave]

19 minutes ago, Hongweibing said:

The problem with the JA3 system is that it doesn't make much sense - the number of slots is defined by one's strength, but obviously, size does not necessarily equal weight.

This is very important and I don't know why Haemimont chose the method they did. Carrying 30 bandages isn't the same as trying to carry 30 M60 light machine guns (which is impossible anyway). Ok, so bandages are lighter in weight but they are so much smaller as well.

If the number of slots is defined by strength, then that means that the weakest merc can only carry as many bandages as they can carry M60s, while the strongest will be able to carry more of either. I am pretty sure that anybody, no matter what their strength is, can carry a lot more bandages than a long, heavy firearm.

Even if that analogy doesn't quite work, you could change it to bandages versus grenades.

[Tuckus]

1 hour ago, Stuurminator said:

My kneejerk response is to prefer option 2, but if I take the time to look back on my time playing not just this but any tactical combat game, I can't remember a time that ammo or medical supply distribution has had a meaningful effect on my game. Maybe it's just been busywork all along and I never realized it.

It’s busywork if you don’t like it, gameplay if you do. Why have more than one generic rifle or pistol, other than to tweak your dopamine receptors with kit upgrades? Inventory gear with distinct characteristics and making decisions about who has what and when adds depth and variability to combat. Imo the new xcoms are almost completely lacking that lind of emergent gameplay and their combat feels shallow and redundant despite cool special abilities and “snake titties”

 

on a phone, sorry about the errors 

[DougS2K]

44 minutes ago, Solaris_Wave said:

This is very important and I don't know why Haemimont chose the method they did. Carrying 30 bandages isn't the same as trying to carry 30 M60 light machine guns (which is impossible anyway). Ok, so bandages are lighter in weight but they are so much smaller as well.

If the number of slots is defined by strength, then that means that the weakest merc can only carry as many bandages as they can carry M60s, while the strongest will be able to carry more of either. I am pretty sure that anybody, no matter what their strength is, can carry a lot more bandages than a long, heavy firearm.

Even if that analogy doesn't quite work, you could change it to bandages versus grenades.

Exactly this. Makes no sense that there is no weight or size factor for items in the inventory.

[Stuurminator]

46 minutes ago, Solaris_Wave said:

This is very important and I don't know why Haemimont chose the method they did. Carrying 30 bandages isn't the same as trying to carry 30 M60 light machine guns (which is impossible anyway). Ok, so bandages are lighter in weight but they are so much smaller as well.

JA1 and DG (which didn't even take strength into account) handled this by controlling the number of items you could "stack" in one inventory slot. You could carry five magazines in one vest slot, for instance, but only one M16. I haven't noticed whether JA3 does this as well.

Edited May 26, 2023 by Stuurminator

[DougS2K]

Just now, Stuurminator said:

JA1 and DG (which didn't even take strength into account) handled this by controlling the number of items you could "stack" in one inventory slot. You could carry five magazines in one vest slot, for instance, but only one M16. I haven't noticed which method JA3 uses.

I believe JA3 has a 10 items per slot no matter the item size or weight, excluding armor and weapons which are always 1 per slot of course. Ammo, meds, and scrap parts are 500 per slot but these are also shared inventory items so they have no inventory space needed or weight penalty at all since they magically float around with the Mercs I assume. 😁 

[Solaris_Wave]

So any ammo will total to 500 per slot? 9mm Parabellum cartridges are smaller than 12 gauge cartridges and 7.62x51mm cartridges, which are smaller than 40mm grenades, which are smaller than RPG warheads and 60mm mortar shells. Providing you can find or buy that many of the larger ammo, you could carry just as much as the cheaper and more common ammo.

[DougS2K]

1 hour ago, Solaris_Wave said:

So any ammo will total to 500 per slot? 9mm Parabellum cartridges are smaller than 12 gauge cartridges and 7.62x51mm cartridges, which are smaller than 40mm grenades, which are smaller than RPG warheads and 60mm mortar shells. Providing you can find or buy that many of the larger ammo, you could carry just as much as the cheaper and more common ammo.

I'm not sure the max amount per slot for 40mm grenades but all bullets are 500 per slot regardless of ammo caliber. Hand tossed grenades are 10 per slot. Have to look at some of the press release footage again to verify what 40mm grenades are per slot.

God, I really hope they just add magazines and do away with the shared inventory at the very least. The more I think about shared inventory, the more I hate it. 😄

 

[MateKiddleton]

I picked 2, but don't mind a shared stash if it was inaccessible in combat. Merc loadout/carry weight should be an important consideration in JA games.

[Solaris_Wave]

1 hour ago, DougS2K said:

God, I really hope they just add magazines and do away with the shared inventory at the very least. The more I think about shared inventory, the more I hate it. 😄

Me too. It helps to detract from the realism. I can understand why they did it but it sounds as if they went too far in pursuit of making things less fiddly. Even if they copied JA2 exactly, was JA2 so complicated with its inventory that it became a negative? I didn't think it did.

[DonBilbo]

While I don‘t think they found the optimal compromise yet I don’t think a system like 1.13 makes sense - in this game. Because if you add so much depth to one aspect you need to adapt other gameplay mechanics and aspects as well so it’s overall still balanced. Also this is not a simulation of reality otherwise the TBS aspect wouldn’t also make sense in the first place. This is a game and it’s supposed to make fun for what is focuses on - the quirky characters and the battlefield tactics. I don’t see a heavy focus on inventory management fits to the rest of the game and what I have seen so far I think I can live with that even though a little bit more magazine and bandage management per merc would also be fine for me. So I guess Option 2 would be best. But I'd rather take option 1 than 3 if I can't have 2.

[Povok]

20 hours ago, MateKiddleton said:

I picked 2, but don't mind a shared stash if it was inaccessible in combat. Merc loadout/carry weight should be an important consideration in JA games.

I couldn't agree more. I see no problem with shared stash if it is inacessible during combat.

Using it to prepare before combat begins can definitely be useful, but as soon as you start moving around a sector with enemies present i'd say it should be disabled.

I see a bigger issue in merc carrying capability/loadout which is tightly related to this mechanic. Not having weight restrictions on carried items means any character can be heavy weapons expert because there is no need to have strenght to carry around ammo boxes for that minimi you casually jog around with (while having a couple of RPGs in your backpack).

[Elite77]

On 5/26/2023 at 5:15 PM, DougS2K said:

I've seen a lot of discussion about inventory over the past few months and while it's probably to late to make changes even if the devs were willing to, I'm curious what everyone thinks about the inventory system or which they prefer.

Personally, I love the JA2 1.13 style but I know it's not for everyone. That being said, I really dislike the shared inventory for ammo and find it wildly unrealistic.

It is for everyone, if they disagree they're lying. But both JA2 and JA2 1.13 have the same inventory style, I'm not sure where people get this idea that JA2's inventory is different to 1.13. The only difference is that in 1.13 your vests and LBE affects the slots you have on your person, in JA2 vanilla you get the same slot amount. But the principle is the same, unless I'm mistaken. Still some slots can have more ammo mags in them than others, etc.

[rwp]

Getting older time for gaming is a limiting factor for everybody. I liked the JA2 vanilla system but who really gets out of ammo besides very early game or for rare weapons like CAWS or P90. Nowadays tbh I even use Jape to equip the team and have an efficient run trough withing the 5h-8h I can spend in a month. Cartridge size should be realistic in amount, size and weight though. I always were forced to switch to stronger mercenarys to carry more LAWs and Mortar shells in late game. The 1.13 system complexity will be just nice fot enthusiast but is way too much for everyone new to the game or casual gamers.

[Solaris_Wave]

That makes it sound as if something between options 2 and 3 would be best, to satisfy most people. Then, allow modding flexibility for something equivalent to JA2 v1.13.