Please can we have a demo?

[Lozsta]

It is 10 days from release please can we get a demo to try this game. I loved JA and JA2. The modding community really made it special. But given the dross that has been in between (the dev even nods to this) I will want to play a demo before committing.

If they don't do a demo people will just use other means to test it. Nothing wrong with the other method it drives a lot of engagement and a number of lost sales are brought by that route, however a simple demo would help to also drive that engagement.

Something about not providing a demo just seems to say "we aren't as happy with our games so we will hide it until you've paid for it". I realise steam has a refund option but the first 2 hours is often the most polished and with a game like this a single mission could take an hour or two.

[Lunokhod]

Bro u have internet, ppl making videos and streaming in 4k. Its 2023... Jesus Christ...

[GODSPEED]

19 minutes ago, Lunokhod said:

Bro u have internet, ppl making videos and streaming in 4k. Its 2023... Jesus Christ...

So?

What does the year have to do with it?

Watching a video doesn't make you experience it first. Watching a video doesn't tell you if and how the game will run on your PC. Demos, in 2023, should be basic across the industry. That's why Steam even has festivals filled with demos.

Yeah, it's 2023... if a company can't release a game without us having a way to even try it out first.. there's an issue.

[Lunokhod]

5 minutes ago, GODSPEED said:

Watching a video doesn't tell you if and how the game will run on your PC.

• Recommended:
  • Requires a 64-bit processor and operating system
  • OS: Windows 10 & 11 (64 bit)
  • Processor: Intel Quad Core or AMD Ryzen with 4 GHz
  • Memory: 16 GB RAM
  • Graphics: NVIDIA GTX 2070 or AMD Radeon 6700 XT with 8GB of VRAM
  • DirectX: Version 12
  • Storage: 20 GB available space
  • Sound Card: DirectX compatible

[Stuurminator]

32 minutes ago, Lunokhod said:

Bro u have internet, ppl making videos and streaming in 4k. Its 2023... Jesus Christ...

To be fair, Jagged Alliance (and tactical combat games in general) gameplay doesn't translate well to video format. I'm sure we've all seen some streamer footage by now, and I'm sure we've all thought, "This person doesn't know what they're doing, I want to try doing it this way." A demo could help bring in people who are uncertain about the game.

[Lunokhod]

2 minutes ago, Stuurminator said:

A demo could help bring in people who are uncertain about the game.

Release in 10 days, obviously there will be no demo.

[GODSPEED]

9 minutes ago, Lunokhod said:

• Recommended:
  • Requires a 64-bit processor and operating system
  • OS: Windows 10 & 11 (64 bit)
  • Processor: Intel Quad Core or AMD Ryzen with 4 GHz
  • Memory: 16 GB RAM
  • Graphics: NVIDIA GTX 2070 or AMD Radeon 6700 XT with 8GB of VRAM
  • DirectX: Version 12
  • Storage: 20 GB available space
  • Sound Card: DirectX compatible

If you've been in PC gaming for any length of time, you'd know this is somewhat unreliable.

Optimization is not a spec. One needs to TEST it on his own machine first to see how it runs.

I've had games WAY above recommended specs that run like crap.. and I've had PC's with games that we're close to Minimum run very well. Just seeing those specs above, if recommended specs are this high for a "xcom-style" game... optimization will be down the drain.

Edited July 4, 2023 by GODSPEED

[Lunokhod]

1 minute ago, GODSPEED said:

Optimization is not a spec. One needs to TEST it on his own machine first to see how it runs.

Buy game in Steam, if u got unplayable fps just refund it. Solved. Next!

[Claypl]

I would not mind some preview build as well. Not that I'm worried about refund but I'm probably looking to take day off from work, would be shame to cancel it because I cant even run game properly 😐

 

[Lozsta]

46 minutes ago, Lunokhod said:

Buy game in Steam, if u got unplayable fps just refund it. Solved. Next!

I answered that in my first post.

1 hour ago, Lunokhod said:

Bro u have internet, ppl making videos and streaming in 4k. Its 2023... Jesus Christ...

As far as I know I am not your bro, chap. Games like this played by people on Youtube really doesn't give you a feel for how ir is. I detest watching people playing games always have. The entire streaming and "watch me play this game" thing really is not what I am into. If I have an hour to play a game I want to play a game, not watch someone fumble their way about.

Given it is "2023" as you quite rightly point out means companies should really have clued into what was perfectly normal back when JA and JA2 came out. DEMOS.

Per the spec requirements I have a 9 series Ryzen 7950x3D and a 4090 so I am not worried about that, optimisation on the other hand is a completely different matter.

Edited July 4, 2023 by Lozsta

[Claudius33]

Come on guys, I ran Cyberpunk 2077 on my old rig, 8Gb, Nvidia GTX 970, HDD (SSD too small) 1650x1080, without any problem, of course with less shader or so effects, but who relly cares. I have no doubt I will run JA3 without any problem.

Plenty of games have been released without a demo.

Edited July 4, 2023 by Claudius33
syntax

[Lozsta]

1 minute ago, Claudius33 said:

Come on guys, I ran Cyberpunk 2077 on my old rig, 8Gb, Nvidia GTX 970, HDD (SSD too small) 1650x1080, without any problem, of course with less shader or so effects, but who relly cares. I have no doubt I will run JA3 without any problem.

Plenty of games have been released without a demo.

Plenty of games have been ignored for exactly that reason. Death Stranding, waited for it to come to PC, got denuvo so I ignored it. Day it got cracked I tried it and bought it within 25 minutes. Had they had a demo that would have been a day 1 purchase.

Cyberpunk was a mess at release, JA3 is no where near as complex a project, however the optimisation is the main thing.

Again trying before buying is not a bad thing. Diablo 4 had their betas and they convinced me to buy then game, full all out Ultimate edition day one. The issue isn't can I run it or have I got the money it is more is it worth my time and money.

[Lunokhod]

7 minutes ago, Lozsta said:

As far as I know I am not your bro, chap. Games like this played by people on Youtube really doesn't give you a feel for how ir is. I detest watching people playing games always have. The entire streaming and "watch me play this game" thing really is not what I am into. If I have an hour to play a game I want to play a game, not watch someone fumble their way about.

Stop acting like a kid. "Omg i want a feel how it is"... Nobody cares about your feelings. And no one is forcing u to watch streams. But streams and videos gives u all info about the game u need to know. This is enough to make a purchasing decision.

[Claudius33]

Providing a demo is a marketing choice. They instead gave a beta version to journalists and influencers. It nevertheless showed some confidence after all.

From the footages I watched, no streamer complained about performances. They were in fact pretty impressed regarding performances.

If you are asolutely unsure, wait a couple of months.

Edited July 4, 2023 by Claudius33

[Lozsta]

Just now, Lunokhod said:

Stop acting like a kid. "Omg i want a feel how it is"... Nobody cares about your feelings. And no one is forcing u to watch streams. But streams and videos gives u all info about the game u need to know. This is enough to make a purchasing decision.

No one is forcing you to reply but it seems you are the token troll that comes with every forum template. 

Mentioning acting like a child sounds like some of the strongest projection I've heard so far this month and it is only the 4th.

[Lozsta]

1 minute ago, Claudius33 said:

Providing a demo is a marketing choice. They instead gave a beta version to journalists and influencers. It nevertheless showed some confidence after all.

If you are asolutely unsure, wait a couple of months.

That is true they clearly have a "packaged" demo to give to the aforementioned people which is why it is a surprise they won't let it go out to the public.

It is a marketing choice, one that if the product is worth it always plays out well. Journos are one thing, they have their own different bents and bias's, but influencers are such wastes of air.

I will wait until there is a day one release that is "testable" if they deign not to have a demo, then the choice is why not just play it in that format. Simple answer would be to release the demo (which they may do like how Dead Space did).

[D13]

You can buy the game on GOG with their 30 day refund window. That would allow you to finish the game multiple times and still claim a refund.

 

[Lozsta]

10 minutes ago, D13 said:

You can buy the game on GOG with their 30 day refund window. That would allow you to finish the game multiple times and still claim a refund.

 

That is a massive refund window. Thank you for that heads up, I wonder how that will change if their sale goes through.

[Solaris_Wave]

Demos are such a rare thing now, which is a shame. In the past, there were several demos I played that turned a game from being a curiosity or a pass, into something I really wanted to buy and play. There were even demos that came out that left me eager for the main release and I played them repeatedly.

There were drawbacks to demos, on a personal level. Some games took so long to get released after the demo, you kind of felt you were getting bored of the game. You had played the demo repeatedly and then found that the full game wouldn't be out for another month or two.

There were also some really bad demos. The kind that treated you like scum for even wanting to try such a thing. You might get just 60 seconds to play it before the demo ended, slowly showed an advert for it, then happily went back to the Desktop. Instead of trying to tempt you into buying the game, they would insult you and say buy the game anyway. Those demos were rare but they never encouraged anything other than to ignore the full game (which probably sucked anyway and the big fat games corporation knew it).

From the publisher's standpoint, their argument was that making demos took time and possibly delayed the main release as developers were spending time making the demo. They also said that they were sometimes hard to make as they revealed gameplay they wanted to keep secret. They also said that making a demo would actually hurt sales because people would simply play the demo for their fun and not bother with the full game. I don't agree with the latter point as, like I initially pointed out, a demo has often encouraged me to buy a game I wouldn't normally be interested in, or was unsure whether I wanted to spend a lot of money on.

These days, with the costs of games being as high as they are, and sales not always affecting some games (or despite being old games, are never on a good sale price), demos shouldn't be written off.

[Solaris_Wave]

1 hour ago, Claudius33 said:

Come on guys, I ran Cyberpunk 2077 on my old rig, 8Gb, Nvidia GTX 970, HDD (SSD too small) 1650x1080, without any problem, of course with less shader or so effects, but who relly cares. I have no doubt I will run JA3 without any problem.

That isn't always a good indicator. Time and time again, one game will work fine on one system and struggle on another, even if one system is supposedly more powerful. Some games might crash or freeze or might not even start at all. That last point is nowhere near as common these days but games can still crash, freeze or stutter, even if the PC in question is capable of running more demanding games.

 

1 hour ago, Lozsta said:

As far as I know I am not your bro, chap. Games like this played by people on Youtube really doesn't give you a feel for how ir is. I detest watching people playing games always have. The entire streaming and "watch me play this game" thing really is not what I am into. If I have an hour to play a game I want to play a game, not watch someone fumble their way about.

If no demos exist, watching a gameplay vid can be the next best thing. However, at the very least they can irritate as you watch the person playing the game faff about, and you feel compelled to push them out of the way so you can take over and do it more efficiently (and everybody will probably think they would do a better job than the next person).

At the most, watching a person play a game won't give you that important feedback where you 'interface' with a game. A game might look good but when you actually play it, using whatever control method, it might be there where you feel that it is lacking.

 

1 hour ago, Lunokhod said:

Stop acting like a kid. "Omg i want a feel how it is"... Nobody cares about your feelings. And no one is forcing u to watch streams. But streams and videos gives u all info about the game u need to know. This is enough to make a purchasing decision.

That is a bit harsh, saying that nobody cares. Also, like I mentioned above, games videos don't give you all the info. You don't know how well it will work on your own PC, only how well it works on theirs. You don't know how clunky the controls might be either.

[ShadowMagic]

7 hours ago, Claudius33 said:

From the footages I watched, no streamer complained about performances. They were in fact pretty impressed regarding performances.

*Facepalm*

Firstly acting knowledgeable by trying to explain a 'marketing principle' to us.

Then stating you haven't read any complaints from streamers that got a beta to showcase.

You got a lot to learn man. 

[Claudius33]

So tell me ô wise man. Does it really bother you that much the game might not be as bad as you think (wish?) it is?

Edited July 4, 2023 by Claudius33

[ShadowMagic]

1 minute ago, Claudius33 said:

So tell me ô wise man. Does it really bother you that much the game might be not as bad as you think (wish?) it is?

Based on what?

Some payed streamer I personally never heard of (quite honestly i have zero interest in people that have no real or useful jobs in this world) that was not complaining about performance issues?

Time to get off your high horse. OP had a valid point. Demos are a must these days since so often crap is being sold and people are reluctant buying this game seeing key aspects being left out and game already being discounted before release.

Steam refund policy won't help you out since that time period is too short and GOG doesn't let you refund 'just like that' either.

Therefore waiting for winter sale might be the best option, when you most probably can pick up this game for a few dollars and *independent* reviews are out.

[Claudius33]

I just said THQ and Haemimont made another choice. That's all. Yes I reported that the streamers I watched, didn't complain about performances, that's a fact. However I also told the OP's author to wait for a couple of months if he was unsure. So?

Demos are perphaps a must but the publishers manage, not anyone of us. There are few demos available, often from indies looking for more support. Urban Strife had one maybe two during a limited period. Others choose early access. A demo is not that easy to do, you need to have a basic tutorial ready, at least a significant part of early game ready and most assets ready. Or you can have a limited time version when the game is released, like business softwares. But again it's the editor choice.

 

Edited July 4, 2023 by Claudius33

[GODSPEED]

21 minutes ago, Claudius33 said:

A demo is not that easy to do, you need to have a basic tutorial ready, at least a significant part of early game ready and most assets ready. Or you can have a limited time version when the game is released, like business softwares. But again it's the editor choice.

A demo doesn't need to be released YEARS ahead of time. Some demos are always available, even years after the games release. What did the streamers play? The tutorial starting section, no? So why not release that as a demo. The content is all there.. just cut off any more parts of the game than the starting island. I would MUCH rather try it for myself than waste my time watching someone else play it. Or waste my time downloading a big game then rush to play a section so I can stay within the refund period.

Yes, it is the editors choice. So what is the harm from the OP to ask for one? Has the OP been insulting? Has he said the game will suck? No!

He simply stated a demo would be great. Provided a few important pointers to WHY demos are a great option.

1. REGARDLESS if you have a $15000 or $300 PC, optimization CAN greatly affect ANY computer. Anyone who's been gaming for any amount of time, who goes into other games than your extremely popular titles (big AAA titles with HUGE budgets and engines that have been optimized very well) will know this and have lived this.

2. GOG Refund isn't a guarantee, they can deny it. I've been denied Steam refunds in the past. 2 hours can be too short to really get into it. Sometimes just getting the settings right and doing the tutorial part can have you at the 2 hours mark and past the refund point. Sometimes you encounter a "bug" or incompatibility, that just getting around to getting the game up and running is long enough that your refund timeframe is just about 2 hours and you haven't even tried the game that much. These are common things in PC gaming (unfortunately).

3. Watching a game online isn't the same as playing a game. Again, this should be pretty standard knowledge. Maybe you or others like watching others play games, others don't. It breaks some of the "surprise" and fun of getting into it yourself.

A demo provides a nice way to experience it yourself, see how it runs, see if it's optimized from the start. Avoids having to hog the refund options, avoids unnecessary bad reviews if you don't like it, etc...


I honestly can't see the harm in asking for a demo; so what if the devs have already decided there wouldn't be one!? You can't get what you don't ask for... and asking is free.