JA3 patch needed - urgent

[marcinl0]

in some moments poor optimization, sometimes it can lag, especially with zooms,

the graphic design is standard, it does not delight the eye,

no chance to hit in the official version, even as a choice,

no all JA JA2 JA2.5 mercenaries,

the faces of some of our heroes are quite different from the original,

the characters always have one outfit, you can't see any changes when we mix their wardrobe,

mercenaries always follow a marked path, even if there is a visible mine on it,

Shadow is not wearing such a strong and distinctive camouflage as in JA2,

no camouflage skill or camouflage kits,

stealth mode not working properly, enemies will see you anyway,

not very intuitive interface,

no possibility to change the camera angle while zooming,

inability to switch to turn-based mode at any time when the enemy is in the sector,

the ability to turn a mercenary standing still has not been implemented during combat,

grenade explosion does not knock down enemies, they take damage while standing still,

the game does not have simple mechanics, it is a bit complicated because the dependency system is large and you have to learn it and spend a good few hours on it,

small maps,

no minimap

no tactical break

no Bobby's Ray lack of ammunitions

[Warmonger]

Many true words. Well I like the game play so far, the fire fights are fun. But do not unterstand, why they did not use all the good features from JA2, specially the interface and managements there. Many things are very crptically.

[Tzg]

29 minutes ago, Warmonger said:

Many true words. Well I like the game play so far, the fire fights are fun. But do not unterstand, why they did not use all the good features from JA2, specially the interface and managements there. Many things are very crptically.

if you want to play JA2 - or especially JA2 1.13 - play JA2. It is that simple!

[Tzg]

2 hours ago, marcinl0 said:

in some moments poor optimization, sometimes it can lag, especially with zooms,

the graphic design is standard, it does not delight the eye,

no chance to hit in the official version, even as a choice,

no all JA JA2 JA2.5 mercenaries,

the faces of some of our heroes are quite different from the original,

the characters always have one outfit, you can't see any changes when we mix their wardrobe,

mercenaries always follow a marked path, even if there is a visible mine on it,

Shadow is not wearing such a strong and distinctive camouflage as in JA2,

no camouflage skill or camouflage kits,

stealth mode not working properly, enemies will see you anyway,

not very intuitive interface,

no possibility to change the camera angle while zooming,

inability to switch to turn-based mode at any time when the enemy is in the sector,

the ability to turn a mercenary standing still has not been implemented during combat,

grenade explosion does not knock down enemies, they take damage while standing still,

the game does not have simple mechanics, it is a bit complicated because the dependency system is large and you have to learn it and spend a good few hours on it,

small maps,

no minimap

no tactical break

no Bobby's Ray lack of ammunitions

- works fine for me - get better machine 

- Chance to hit is for babies and people with attention spam of seagull. Not being in game is a good thing 

- There's a lot of them there

- faces are different - so what? Play JA2

 - yes they do have one outfit - you want change outfits - maybe wrong game for you? did you try barbie games? 

- you can stop mercs from walking on the mine if you don't know how to play its your problem 

- Shadow is different because... focus - it is JA3 not JA2

- yes lack of kits is a pity - agreed 

- interface is very intuitive I play on steam deck and PC - easy like hell - probably Polish education system disappointed you. happens. 

- camera could be better - true 

- yes that's game mechanics as it was in JA2  

- what means standing still? weird

- yes granades should knock enemies - agreed 

- yes game doest have simple mechanics - if its too hard - try Barbie 

- you don't need mini map you have tactical over view + gained intel 

- yes there is 

- Ammunition can be crafted. Although I would love Bobby Rays 

[Warmonger]

53 minutes ago, Tzg said:

if you want to play JA2 - or especially JA2 1.13 - play JA2. It is that simple!

Why so aggressive? I've played JA2 dozens of times and was even in direct contact with the German distributors to improve the game in 1999. They even sent floppy disks in the mail in 1999 to make improvements.

I'm not saying JA3 is bad. On the contrary, I like it and will continue to like it and play through for sure and more. But the game makes it more difficult to manage than it should and had very good specifications there with JA2. And incidentally, it is already noticeable that the game tries to create an atmosphere, but only tries; sometimes trying too hard. We'll see. So please be constructive.

[Tzg]

47 minutes ago, Warmonger said:

Why so aggressive? I've played JA2 dozens of times and was even in direct contact with the German distributors to improve the game in 1999. They even sent floppy disks in the mail in 1999 to make improvements.

I'm not saying JA3 is bad. On the contrary, I like it and will continue to like it and play through for sure and more. But the game makes it more difficult to manage than it should and had very good specifications there with JA2. And incidentally, it is already noticeable that the game tries to create an atmosphere, but only tries; sometimes trying too hard. We'll see. So please be constructive.

I am bored at tired of the ‘community’ whining about this game basically saying ‘oh no it is not ja2 1.13 and doesn’t have CtH omg omg omg!!!’ 
 

No it doesn’t. It is JA3 stying true to the spirit and soul of the original ones but with own approach. Not everything is perfect but I appreciate they didn’t try to re-skin JA2. 
 

As for being constructive- there is nothing constructive at all in saying ‘but it isn’t JA2’ - not at all. 

[CersaisAdvocate]

 

 

36 minutes ago, Tzg said:

I am bored at tired of the ‘community’ whining about this game basically saying ‘oh no  it is not ja2 1.13 and doesn’t have CtH omg omg omg!!!’ 

If you can not Deal with that without becoming toxic there is a simple solution: Stay away from the Forums. Just Play the game instead or visit the Barbie Forum!

Yes the JA Community is very emotionaly involved, but bevor you shit on that too much you should realise that that involvement is the reason JA3 actually exists now.

I think we should Not expect this to be JA3 1.13 that will be something the Community will create some day. But JA3 has been set Up as the worthy sequal of JA2 and not as "some tactical Game". It is legit to point out that the game lacks behind JA2 vanilla in some aspects.

[ninjalex]

1 minute ago, CersaisAdvocate said:

It is legit to point out that the game lacks behind JA2 vanilla in some aspects.

It is, but the forums is flooded with "THIS IS NOT JAGGED ALLIANCE" because of some minor inconveniences or design choices, and it's up to some of us to point out that a lot of it is actually fucking whining because their expectations were basically new graphics 1.13. And all of this crying is discouraging people from trying and buying the game. We have people here that have complained for almost 100 posts for 6 months about how the characters look and they clearly state they aren't buying or trying the game.

I've seen reviews after 10 hour play saying they "HATE THE GAME WITH PASSION" and it just boils down to, this isn't the exact modded game they played 20 years ago.

 

I think it was pretty clear that Haemont decided to make a game not as complex as JA2 1.13 that probably could have some broader appeal, but to keep the spirit of the games and to build on the core concept, while leaving a huge modding opportunity in place, so people can get the game they envisioned.

[Tzg]

50 minutes ago, CersaisAdvocate said:

 

 

If you can not Deal with that without becoming toxic there is a simple solution: Stay away from the Forums. Just Play the game instead or visit the Barbie Forum!

Yes the JA Community is very emotionaly involved, but bevor you shit on that too much you should realise that that involvement is the reason JA3 actually exists now.

I think we should Not expect this to be JA3 1.13 that will be something the Community will create some day. But JA3 has been set Up as the worthy sequal of JA2 and not as "some tactical Game". It is legit to point out that the game lacks behind JA2 vanilla in some aspects.

Oh yeah. You should personally take a credit for the game.

no it is not. 
 

and it is legit spiritual successor of JA game. 
 

the whinny sucky community wants 1.13 with new graphics - which is ridiculous. 1.13 actually killed the soul of the game. 
 

yes it is different than ja2 but it is pretty awesome in many regards as aspects. yes it is different and rightly so! 

 

 

[marcinl0]

Dear THQ Creators, really EASY patch PLEASE:

we waited patiently for almost thirty years from the brilliant JA2 (not counting the tragically poor continuation attempts, only BIA I wanted to play) to get a REALLY worthy successor that retains the unique atmosphere of the timeless original JA series (JA JA2 JA2.5) and everything good in the JA series -
since the title says JA3 - but it obliges...

[Tzg]

1 minute ago, marcinl0 said:

Dear THQ Creators, really EASY patch PLEASE:

we waited patiently for almost thirty years from the brilliant JA2 (not counting the tragically poor continuation attempts, only BIA I wanted to play) to get a REALLY worthy successor that retains the unique atmosphere of the timeless original JA series (JA JA2 JA2.5) and everything good in the JA series -
since the title says JA3 - but it obliges...

You must have been playing different JA if you are looking for CtH. 

[Warmonger]

JA3 is a true follower of JA2. It uses better graphics of course and creates a more complex world. The KI acts good, better than the one of JA2, the fights are advanced with all these additional options and fun to watch. The atmosphere? Well, it is growing but the "Major" fx does not come up to  "Deidranna2 whom I hated from the first moment on. The "Major" for now is not really existing while  Deidranna always was. Well the atmosphere of JA 2 is hard to reproduce and I forgive it away, if does not work at once. So we have only this management difficulties of the stuff, healing, supporting and so first of all to be made better. JA2 was simple and good with that, while it also always lacked depots and I used to have depot-sectors where I put in what did not need currently for later. Anyway it is a good game. But if it will get the evaluation of 90 will depend at least maybe on these management questions. 

Edited July 16, 2023 by Warmonger

[marcinl0]

I hope the JA3 Authots Creators read patch wishlist - and useful patch will be ASAP.

[Tzg]

35 minutes ago, marcinl0 said:

I hope the JA3 Authots Creators read patch wishlist - and useful patch will be ASAP.

But your patch wish list is shit 🤣

[GODSPEED]

11 hours ago, marcinl0 said:

in some moments poor optimization, sometimes it can lag, especially with zooms, //Any new game needs a little optimization after release
 

the graphic design is standard, it does not delight the eye, //Design and art direction, they will never change it
 

no chance to hit in the official version, even as a choice, //JA never had CtH, we don't want it. Download the mod if you want it.
 

no all JA JA2 JA2.5 mercenaries, //New game. JA2 had new faces and not all faces from JA1. This is normal.
 

the faces of some of our heroes are quite different from the original,  //Design choice. They will never change that.
 

the characters always have one outfit, you can't see any changes when we mix their wardrobe, //Design choice. I actually like this after playing for many hours. Mercs actually feel more unique this way. Although, having a few outfits to choose could be fun.
 

mercenaries always follow a marked path, even if there is a visible mine on it, //autopause features need to be added, I agree.
 

Shadow is not wearing such a strong and distinctive camouflage as in JA2, //Design choice?
 

no camouflage skill or camouflage kits, //Design choice?
 

stealth mode not working properly, enemies will see you anyway, //There is even a timer to give you plenty of time to move away from enemy when in stealth.
 

not very intuitive interface, //It's not as fleshed out as it could be, I agree. It feels too big and could be made way smaller. Too obstructive.
 

no possibility to change the camera angle while zooming, //Totally agree! See my [REQUEST] FREECAM ...topic
 

inability to switch to turn-based mode at any time when the enemy is in the sector, //Very valid request!!
 

the ability to turn a mercenary standing still has not been implemented during combat, //Design choice. There is no use for body position in the game.
 

grenade explosion does not knock down enemies, they take damage while standing still, //I hope this gets reworked!
 

the game does not have simple mechanics, it is a bit complicated because the dependency system is large and you have to learn it and spend a good few hours on it, //Design choice. It has taken me a good 10-12 hours to brush off my JA2 1.13 experience... once you get the hang of it, it's like JA + D&D 5E had a child. It has more like RPG boardgame rules. This will never change. They have made the entire game on those mechanics. You do not like? Unbfortunately, either you refund, or don't buy. Sorry...
 

small maps, //Design choice, also, you complain about performance.. the game has ultra detail and graphics, larger maps = bigger performance hit. Be happy they are small, or else you would need a $5000 PC to play. They will never change that for the current tech level they are able to optimize with their engine.
 

no minimap //Map is small, minimap is pointless.
 

no tactical break // ??
 

no Bobby's Ray lack of ammunitions //Design choice. This is part of how they create a "survival" atmosphere, difficulty control and theme. I would also like a website to order, but I understand the choice.

See my "notes" on your list ^

And ignore the people who call your 'wishlist' stupid. This forum has always been about members who are a little more mature than that who don't need to resort to insult.

You bring up some good points, but many of them are choices that were made long ago... and it is too late to make such changes. Again, I hate to sound like this... but if you cannot agree with those things, it is your choice to play the game or not at this point.

I am a pretty hardcore fanatic of 1.13, played it 15+ years, at least 1x /year. It has taken me some hours of playing JA3 to adapt, and while this game cannot replace JA2 (I find some parts worse, but some parts better than base JA2)... it is still a very good Tactical game with some natural flaws like any game.

But it just came out 2 days ago. Naturally, once they acquired enough feedback on things they CAN tweak, I'm sure Haemimont will.

Edited July 16, 2023 by GODSPEED

[Solaris_Wave]

@Tzg, I agree with some of your points and I know you expressed you are exhausted with negative comments but you have to admit yours were pretty harsh. Unless Barbie now rolls with an M60 and serrated combat knife, it is hardly the alternative. 😛

[Raeven]

2 hours ago, GODSPEED said:

See my "notes" on your list ^

And ignore the people who call your 'wishlist' stupid. This forum has always been about members who are a little more mature than that who don't need to resort to insult.

You bring up some good points, but many of them are choices that were made long ago... and it is too late to make such changes. Again, I hate to sound like this... but if you cannot agree with those things, it is your choice to play the game or not at this point.

I am a pretty hardcore fanatic of 1.13, played it 15+ years, at least 1x /year. It has taken me some hours of playing JA3 to adapt, and while this game cannot replace JA2 (I find some parts worse, but some parts better than base JA2)... it is still a very good Tactical game with some natural flaws like any game.

But it just came out 2 days ago. Naturally, once they acquired enough feedback on things they CAN tweak, I'm sure Haemimont will.

I actually mostly concur with this 'edited' version of the list.

Pause during real time would be nice. Button to enter turn based might be nice, BUT - it might also throw off the balance.

I'm guessing that the lack of pause in real time is to make it more difficult overall, to prevent the stealth mechanics from being too easy to exploit. Not sure about this though. I agree that as it stands, it feels a bit fiddly to do properly. 

THAT SAID: I have also found that when things go sideways due to aforementioned fiddlyness - I'm able to change my plan, deal with the consequences and have it all work out in the end pretty well. 

Camo kits would be pretty sweet, tbh, even if the look of the character in-game isn't changed.

Camera angle, I agree that it would be cool to have. Are you aware that you can press the 'o' key for an overhead view though? That does help somewhat.

Grenade knockback as a mechanic would be kinda nice. As it is, they have special animations if the enemy is killed, but if not, they don't change position. Been a lot of talk about this. I think it is an intentional choice, but I do like the knockback element of JA2. That said - from a damage perspective, grenades were weak as hell in JA2. If you were to add knockback to grenades in JA3 as it is right now, they would be even more broken than they already are. Grenades are saving my ass right now in early game but they are borderline broken.

Map size... Big maps are good, but for some reason, these maps don't "feel" all that small to me. I think from a number of tiles perspective they are smaller than JA2, but when playing the game, it doesn't really feel that way. Anyone else have this experience?

As for the UI.... it does feel like it needs some polish somehow, but I can't put my finger on why. I think it will get better as I get used to it. One annoying aspect of it is the flood of tooltips everywhere. Sometimes its like half my screen is various tooltips. I can probably tune that down in the options, not sure, but then I'm worried I will miss something. I think this games UI makes a strong case for the thick game manuals of old 🙂 Not that anyone would read them in this day and age, but.... they had their advantages.

[GODSPEED]

1 hour ago, Raeven said:

Map size... Big maps are good, but for some reason, these maps don't "feel" all that small to me. I think from a number of tiles perspective they are smaller than JA2, but when playing the game, it doesn't really feel that way. Anyone else have this experience?

The maps are perfectly sized for the size of encounters. So far, on all the maps I've played (15-20), I've had way enough room to navigate around the entire map to choose where I want to start my engagement.

I can't see the issue with the size of the maps. They are concise, straight to the point and all have some little detail that can make a combat in them challenging but also interesting.
 

1 hour ago, Raeven said:

As for the UI.... it does feel like it needs some polish somehow, but I can't put my finger on why. I think it will get better as I get used to it. One annoying aspect of it is the flood of tooltips everywhere. Sometimes its like half my screen is various tooltips. I can probably tune that down in the options, not sure, but then I'm worried I will miss something. I think this games UI makes a strong case for the thick game manuals of old 🙂 Not that anyone would read them in this day and age, but.... they had their advantages.

The UI is my biggest pet-peeve so far. It's borderline horrible in design and the constant immediate pop-ups when simply mousing over stuff is not just a "little" annoying.

The UI needs huge work, we need options for smaller windows and windows that are less intrusive. And to time how long we keep our mouse over an item for a pop-up (or even the ability to disable pop-ups and get info with a right-click). Even the weapon modding page, often the entire gun can't even be viewed. Part of the barrel is outside the window, even fully zoomed-out, and mousing over the mods actually hide the nice visuals of the mods.

The game is beautiful, but an eyesore in the UI department.

While it isn't a HUGE issue, even the placement of the AIMBOT text covers merc profile images. Like they never tested it or something.

Edited July 16, 2023 by GODSPEED

[marcinl0]

You listed the single elements that are the most difficult to improve and indeed with them there may be a longer "stagnation" - but it is important that over 90 percent of the remaining majority of the items mentioned are suitable for relatively easy improvement - you just need to be willing to refine JA3 - we count on the Creators' commitment - especially that they are JA JA2 JA2.5 fans.

[chr_isso]

18 hours ago, Warmonger said:

JA3 is a true follower of JA2. It uses better graphics of course and creates a more complex world. The KI acts good, better than the one of JA2, the fights are advanced with all these additional options and fun to watch. The atmosphere? Well, it is growing but the "Major" fx does not come up to  "Deidranna2 whom I hated from the first moment on. The "Major" for now is not really existing while  Deidranna always was. Well the atmosphere of JA 2 is hard to reproduce and I forgive it away, if does not work at once. So we have only this management difficulties of the stuff, healing, supporting and so first of all to be made better. JA2 was simple and good with that, while it also always lacked depots and I used to have depot-sectors where I put in what did not need currently for later. Anyway it is a good game. But if it will get the evaluation of 90 will depend at least maybe on these management questions. 

how many hours are you into the game yet?
The Major is perfectly fine...

[ShadowMagic]

18 hours ago, Warmonger said:

JA3 is a true follower of JA2. It uses better graphics of course and creates a more complex world. The KI acts good, better than the one of JA2, the fights are advanced with all these additional options and fun to watch. The atmosphere? Well, it is growing but the "Major" fx does not come up to  "Deidranna2 whom I hated from the first moment on. The "Major" for now is not really existing while  Deidranna always was. Well the atmosphere of JA 2 is hard to reproduce and I forgive it away, if does not work at once. So we have only this management difficulties of the stuff, healing, supporting and so first of all to be made better. JA2 was simple and good with that, while it also always lacked depots and I used to have depot-sectors where I put in what did not need currently for later. Anyway it is a good game. But if it will get the evaluation of 90 will depend at least maybe on these management questions. 

The thing is, with JA3 they did not just stick with the good features from JA2 and improved the bad ones.  Some good features have been either left out or altered in such a way it is more of a frustration than an improvement now really (Overwatch instead of interruption, the inventory system)..

So you can't call this JA3 since it's more of an JA / Xcom / Wasteland / Tropico hybrid. It's clearly aimed at a wider audience than just those JA veterans like me that simply wished for an upgraded JA2.

[marcinl0]

"simply wished for an upgraded JA2" Exactly JA JA2 JA2.5 JA3...

[Beak]

I feel sorry for the dev who has to read through all this entitled ‘I want’ and ‘this is not good enough’ crap. 
 

I’m 20 hours in and very much enjoying myself, and this game will only get better over time, just like JA2 did with 1.13.

 

It’s not even been out a week, give it some time people, stop asking for a 1.13 clone, and start enjoying this new generation of JA, otherwise there won’t be a JA4! It’s only taken 24 years to get this one. 
 

Be grateful that we finally have a new JA worth playing. 

Edited July 17, 2023 by Beak

[marcinl0]

When will the first JA3 patch - be released.

[Mordante]

3 hours ago, marcinl0 said:

When will the first JA3 patch - be released.

According to the latest devs announcement a small patch will be released on steam today.