Inventory, Inventory, Inventory

[Skaldy]

1 hour ago, Jaywalker said:

For any Party-based RPG game you can name that does not, there will be at least an equal amount of ones that have a party stash that is shared by all characters in some capacity.
Even in the cases that do not, there is very rarely a system in place more complex than "this is what one person can carry", which JA3 more than has and limits by strength in terms of slots.

Both of the recent Pathfinder games have shared inventory accessible to all party members, restricted only by their combined strength (including pets and summoned creatures) and a separate weight of equipped items.

JRPGs have since the dawn of time only had a list of items carried by the party, unrestricted by any parameter other than an occasional single stack limit.

Wasteland 2 and Wasteland 3, which JA3 is closely modeled after, have the same exact system, and not once was it a point of complaint in those titles.

It is not unusual for an RPG to have a basic inventory system that does not affect combat performance.

It is when you claim this is a mil-sim. As ex-mil i find it even funny. Dude, 10 lockpicks=5 mg42, you will never have argument to justify it. Game has many stupid, lazy mechanics, pick your battles. You cant DEFEND everything.

[Skaldy]

1 hour ago, sandman25dcsss said:

Shared inventory is very good mechanic for me. Though I would prefer a single shared inventory for all teams. But even that is not ideal for me, this is why I am looking into how to make infinite ammo mod which generates ammo as needed. Next step would be to make all weapons permanently have 100% durability. Mods really can help players with different preferences so there is no need to send me to xcom2 which has its own problems too 😉 For instance, I prefer variable AP instead of 2 AP system.

i dont disagree with your motion about mods, in fact i think all you said should be part of custom difficulty choices. Game is very dry choice/mechanics wise otherwise.

[D13]

I would love to discuss weight vs space slots, but to me the inventory is in such a bad shape, it would be like going to the hospital with an arm missing and the doctor asking about nutrition.

It starts with filling the inventory, usually by pixel hunting like it's 1995 and I'm playing a Sierra point & click adventure game. But unlike 1995, everything is 3D, and so I can see there's loot but then I have to zoom in and move the camera axis to look at the item from the right direction before I can click on it. Also unlike 1995, while running through the uninhabited jungle, I get blown up by landmines. So I let my explosives expert do the looting. Who promptly gets hurt by a electric booby trap. So I use explosives expert for running around and electronics expert for opening boxes. Who then gets hurt by an explosive trap. So much fun. Great, found a gun. I think my third merc could use it.  I want to put it in the inventory of the third merc who is "too far away". Well let's move it from the sector inventory to the merc. But I can't access sector inventory from tactical screen. So I switch to the strategic map and from there access the sector inventory. But is the gun better than the gun my merc already has? I can use Shift to compare. Sadly that does not work if the new gun is in the sector inventory, it must be in the backpack. Which is full. I put some item in the sector inventory to make space, put the new gun in the backpack, compare, find it is not that great. Maybe the gun is good enough for my medic on the other squad? Let me quickly hand them the gun. Oh, I can only pass items between mercs on the same squad, that makes sense. So let's just put it back into the sector inventory, switch to the second squad, select my medic, pick up the gun. Now, the gun needs two slots, and the medic has two free slots, but not two adjacent ones. So let's move random items around. Great, medic can use this gun. But better check if I have the right ammo in the merc's squad's inventory. Wait, where's my squad inventory? Oh it's no longer in the center of the screen, it's now at the bottom of the backpack list, that makes things more interesting I guess. No problem, I scroll down. Hmm, lots of ammunition, not sure which one the gun uses. Scroll up, hover mouse over gun to see which ammo is highlighted. But by now squad inventory has scrolled out of sight and I can't see highlighted ammo. Best to memorize ammo type, old ways are the best ways. No ammo here, but I'm sure the other squad had that ammo type... right, my sniper uses the same sidearm, he has a pack, okay. Let's split the ammo pack. Wow that split slider sure is fiddly. And it turns out I cannot split ammo because there's not enough space in my sniper's inventory, and the inventory can hold 20 bullets but not 2x10 bullets.

I'm obviously exaggerating a bit but unfortunately not that much. Loot should feel like a reward for winning a battle, here I dread killing the last enemy.

[sandman25dcsss]

@D13 Pixel hunting is not only in inventory, it happens very often while gathering meds, disarming mines, picking loot, hacking devices. It took me about 30 seconds to free Herman first time.

[Jaywalker]

30 minutes ago, Skaldy said:

It is when you claim this is a mil-sim. As ex-mil i find it even funny. Dude, 10 lockpicks=5 mg42, you will never have argument to justify it. Game has many stupid, lazy mechanics, pick your battles. You cant DEFEND everything.

I have only ever referred to the game as an RPG. It has mil-sim aspects, but realism is clearly not the goal, and from a gameplay perspective having a convenient shared stash for basic supplies and your personal pack having no impact on combat performance is infinitely more straigh forward than having to fiddle with all the controls for dropping, repacking and optimizing your gear before every battle.

[Skaldy]

Just now, Jaywalker said:

I have only ever referred to the game as an RPG. It has mil-sim aspects, but realism is clearly not the goal, and from a gameplay perspective having a convenient shared stash for basic supplies and your personal pack having no impact on combat performance is infinitely more straigh forward than having to fiddle with all the controls for dropping, repacking and optimizing your gear before every battle.

dude, 10 lockpicks=5 mg42, you will never have argument to justify it, i will keep repeating this until you get the memo

[sandman25dcsss]

Let me describe how much "fun" it is when playing optimally. You explore new sector with merc with the smallest Int stat because it maximizes chance to get stat increase from finding med plant. But you don't want the merc explode on mine so after each step you select Barry or whatever explosive expert you have and move him adjacent to the merc to make sure there is no mine nearby. Then you move that merc a bit and move Barry and so on. As soon as the merc gets +1 Int, you replace the merc with another merc with low Int because it is impossible to increase stat by doing the same activity more often than once in 1-2 days. If that merc is lucky to increase Int from finding med plant too, you replace him with third merc and so on. Then you should write down time to know whom to take for exploring next sector because it depends on how much time has passed between the sectors. But the most funny thing is that you don't want to disarm all mines at once, it is optimal to keep disarming them until your explosive expert gets +1 Explosive, after that you again need to take a break for a few days to have chance to increase your Explosive with mine disarm.

Edited July 24, 2023 by sandman25dcsss

[Jaywalker]

You will repeat it, because you have no argument of your own and no reasonable line of argumentation beyond nit-picking ultimately inconsequential breaks from realism.

Small items take one slot, big items take two. It's not that far removed from any other RPG that uses slots, and it's not even all that far removed from the previous game in the series, where everyone had slots of 2 sizes, that restricted what you can carry in terms of dimensions, often also with a reckless disregard for "realism" in terms of item size (MP5K is not the same size as a Minimi or a Mortar set).

[Skaldy]

Just now, Jaywalker said:

You will repeat it, because you have no argument of your own and no reasonable line of argumentation beyond nit-picking ultimately inconsequential breaks from realism.

Small items take one slot, big items take two. It's not that far removed from any other RPG that uses slots, and it's not even all that far removed from the previous game in the series, where everyone had slots of 2 sizes, that restricted what you can carry in terms of dimensions, often also with a reckless disregard for "realism" in terms of item size (MP5K is not the same size as a Minimi or a Mortar set).

dude, 10 lockpicks=5 mg42, you will never have argument to justify it.

You wanna add a cool feature? Armor rigs. Equipping armor provides +X inventory slots for mercs +%X increases squad inventory carry limit. GAME DESIGN!

But no, we will discuss why you cant comprehend basic logic.

[Stuurminator]

On 7/22/2023 at 10:58 AM, Melliores said:

What I would also enjoy is the Shift + click function to move a single stack to your stash, instead of having to drag and drop it.

Just double-click it.

[5Cents]

2 hours ago, Skaldy said:

dude, 10 lockpicks=5 mg42, you will never have argument to justify it.

You wanna add a cool feature? Armor rigs. Equipping armor provides +X inventory slots for mercs +%X increases squad inventory carry limit. GAME DESIGN!

But no, we will discuss why you cant comprehend basic logic.

Jagged 3 isnt a mil-sim. Its leanded loosely to military contents, yes. But mainly its an RPG, with some tactic elements.
You even can see that on weapon values, i didnt celebrate these either. But its not a drama or bad work. Its just not reality, because its not meant to be.

If it was a milsim, the whole game would be COMPLETLY different, as an ex-mil, you should recognize that...

Btw Schwarzeneggers 'Commando'-dude could carry around 5 MGs and some small arms, i suppose.

Thats basic game logic, you know.

Edited July 24, 2023 by 5Cents

[Skaldy]

2 minutes ago, 5Cents said:

Jagged 3 isnt a mil-sim. Its leanded loosely to military contents, yes. But mainly its an RPG, with some tactic elements.
You even can see that on weapon values, i didnt celebrate these either. But its not a drama or bad work. Its just not reality, because its not meant to be.

If it was a milsim, the whole game would be COMPLETLY different, as an ex-mil, you should recognize that...

Btw Schwarzeneggers 'Commando'-dude could carry around 5 MGs and some small arms, i suppose.

Thats basic game logic, you know.

to give you context:

That guy i responded to made that claim about game being mil-sim. I just found it funny because whatever criticism you make here gets slammed into oblivion

what i criticize: 10 lockpicks=5 mg42 in weight according to this game inventory logic. So, lol, he defends it.

Edited July 24, 2023 by Skaldy

[5Cents]

Understood.

Didnt noticed THAT, till now.

Well at least its funny, isnt it? 😜

Maybe devs motto was, REAL guys only carry the heavy guns, neither plastic soldiers nor needles..😅

Edited July 24, 2023 by 5Cents

[Jaywalker]

7 hours ago, Skaldy said:

That guy i responded to made that claim about game being mil-sim.

Except I never did, so you're not only stupid in your failure to understand what genre the game is but also a liar.

[Claypl]

Boys and girls lets focus on task at hand otherwise these discussions turning into sh#t shows.

Inventory management needs a lot of work and DEV team did indicate that they are looking at better solutions that being said they do expect that to be major change so perhaps next next DLC.

I would love if instead of redesign of the interface they focus on QOL improvements instead. Like sorting, easy access to sector storage, item type tabs in said sector storage. Those does not change the system and drown us in another spicy discussion, it should not be hard to implement and should be just all-round positive ..

Current merc inventory whilst not perfect and leading to 8 picks vs 4 MG discussion but it is probably easiest to understand for newcomers (I think that just JA vets and people alike have real issues with it), it does simplifies tons of design and usage challanges.

I was not fan of the system, but TBH did not care that much once I get into game proper.

[Warmonger]

Once again:

1. The inventory management is crap by its organisation and lacking features to sort the items.

2. Switching between the mercs and their back packs is idiotic. You Always scroll and look where your are left or right in that window. An easy solution there would be to have only the back pack of the selected merc on the right side but no scrolling for the other pack packs there also. If you want to pass item you do by choosing the merc whom you want to give but not scrolling for his back pack on the left side because in 50% you find/choose a wrong one and have to concentrate a lot for it again and again. Maximum piss for me this. 😡

3. The the number of the pack packs slots based on the physical power of a mercs is also idiotic and shall be based on items weight. Lazy solutions they choose there because is lot of work to have it balanced by weight. While in JA2 they did it, so cannot be such a problem.

 

 

[marcinl0]

Why really horrible and stupid JA3 inventory system was not corrected in the first JA3 patch. Maybe in second patch...

[Warmonger]

42 minutes ago, marcinl0 said:

Why really horrible and stupid JA3 inventory system was not corrected in the first JA3 patch. Maybe in second patch...

Hopefully. The game play is good but this base of inventory managend is stone age. As if the some mouse keys were not invented yet. 

[Warmonger]

Inventory patch ahead? Almost cannot stand this crap anymore. Sometimes I am spending more time on this inventory than on the game.

[sandman25dcsss]

5 minutes ago, Warmonger said:

Inventory patch ahead? Almost cannot stand this crap anymore. Sometimes I am spending more time on this inventory than on the game.

Well, if you don't play the game for challenge, consider using my mods which are used by many players already. I don't spend much time on ammo, weapons and armor because basic ammo is generated when entering any sector while equipped armor and weapons are autorepaired when any weapon is reloaded by the merc. Also there are other mods (not mine) which put strategic things like c4, lenses, skill books into squad inventory and increase merc inventory to 24 slots. Inventory management becomes ok then.

[Warmonger]

1 hour ago, sandman25dcsss said:

Well, if you don't play the game for challenge, consider using my mods which are used by many players already. I don't spend much time on ammo, weapons and armor because basic ammo is generated when entering any sector while equipped armor and weapons are autorepaired when any weapon is reloaded by the merc. Also there are other mods (not mine) which put strategic things like c4, lenses, skill books into squad inventory and increase merc inventory to 24 slots. Inventory management becomes ok then.

It is  piratical question only, not to make the game itself easier. Love the  game a lot. Best JA ever seeing already you play it lot of variations without mods even. And 2 many slots I do not like, because is cheat almost and unreal, but the management can be made much better. This it is all about. And I think the maker should do this not the moder.

[Raeven]

On 7/24/2023 at 9:19 AM, sandman25dcsss said:

Let me describe how much "fun" it is when playing optimally. You explore new sector with merc with the smallest Int stat because it maximizes chance to get stat increase from finding med plant. But you don't want the merc explode on mine so after each step you select Barry or whatever explosive expert you have and move him adjacent to the merc to make sure there is no mine nearby. Then you move that merc a bit and move Barry and so on. As soon as the merc gets +1 Int, you replace the merc with another merc with low Int because it is impossible to increase stat by doing the same activity more often than once in 1-2 days. If that merc is lucky to increase Int from finding med plant too, you replace him with third merc and so on. Then you should write down time to know whom to take for exploring next sector because it depends on how much time has passed between the sectors. But the most funny thing is that you don't want to disarm all mines at once, it is optimal to keep disarming them until your explosive expert gets +1 Explosive, after that you again need to take a break for a few days to have chance to increase your Explosive with mine disarm.

Yes, I definitely agree that you found a way to play that sucks all fun out of the experience 🤣

That is quite funny to imagine.

[marcinl0]

How long without huge Inventory patch. Still Senseless gameplay. Please look at JA2.

[sandman25dcsss]

1 hour ago, Raeven said:

Yes, I definitely agree that you found a way to play that sucks all fun out of the experience 🤣

That is quite funny to imagine.

That was easy to imagine, I am expert in DCSS with lots of patience if needed 🙂 In that game optimal play consists in throwing stone to attract enemy attention, then retreating behind a corner while the enemy pursuits you and finally killing the enemy and waiting for wounds to heal. At least we can't split enemy stacks in JA3 and I am grateful to devs for that 🙂

Edited July 27, 2023 by sandman25dcsss

[D13]

There are some questionable choices as to which item types can (not) be stacked - usually not worth complaining about.

But in this case I think that if the one on the left can be stacked, then the two on the right should be stackable as well: