Trailer Analysis and everything known

[Kordanor]

Hey guys. I did a trailer analysis and gathered everyhing known so far about the game. While the video is in German, the List will ofc be english. So if you find any additional bits of Information, please post it here.

General:
-Has Cooperative Multiplayer
-Game by Haemimont Games. Their previous Tactics game is Omerta: City of Gangsters (Metascore of 54)

World:
-Probably is located around Africa now rather than Caribbean
-Has Weather
-You will likely still be able to "browse" on your laptop and do stupid things like Flowers to Deidranna

Combat & Tactical:
-Turnbased uses ActionPoints (possibly not a 20/25 base but more like 10/15)
-Doesnt use a Combat Grid anymore, but free movement
-Probably still allows you to aim with additional AP
-You can aim at different body parts
-You can switch between different shooting modes (Likely Single, Burst, Full Auto)
-Seems to still have trajectory/ray calculation
-Has Overwatch now (thanks to @FluffyQuack )
-Has a Pindown Mechanic now
-Likely supports multiple height levels now

Strategic Layer:
-You will be able to free Cities
-You will be able to split your group/ have multiple groups
-You will travel via Boat (maybe like the Helicopter in JA2)
-You likely earn money via Diamond Mines

Character and Skills:
-Hiring and paying still seems to work the same.
-Has signature abilities now
-Has Abilities on level up
-Still has the old Character skills (or at least most of them)
-Amount of characters is likely rather high: Ivan, Vicky, Buns, Fidel, Shadow, Len, Tex, Red, Hitman, MD, Igor, Steroid, Wolf. A new character called Feuda. So this are 14 already. And they are mostly from one category. So I'd expect 30 characters at least. Likely even more.

Edited September 19, 2021 by Kordanor

[Acid]

Looks like there's going to be a large range or Mercs. Don't forget Dr. Q Haemimont, liked his martial art style.

[Kordanor]

Apparently there has been an Preview at Gamestar (behind a paywall) where it was mentioned that there will be 40+ mercs.

Also possible release in 2022/2023 was mentioned.

[Kordanor]

Oh, looks like editing the post is no longer possible?

Either way. Some info I wanted to add:

Grenades mention destrucable cover. No idea though if you can also destroy Walls/Doors/Terrain

[Low_K]

Nice video, I subscribed to your channel as I understand German too.

At 47:39 you can also see the icon that you can change you stance through F2-F4, most likely crouch, sit, stand which will mean accuracy bonuses I think.

At 54:14 the bullet that missed impacts in the rock behind the enemy. This will mean stray bullets may hit other enemies through indirect fire, just as in JA2. Makes spray-and-pray a valid tactic again 🙂

 

[gholin]

On 9/19/2021 at 1:15 PM, Kordanor said:

Apparently there has been an Preview at Gamestar (behind a paywall) where it was mentioned that there will be 40+ mercs.

Also possible release in 2022/2023 was mentioned.

I hope it comes out 2022. 2023 seems so far away and not "coming soon." Either way I hope it is in good condition and stable, and I am so excited for it!

[Kordanor]

5 hours ago, Low_K said:

Nice video, I subscribed to your channel as I understand German too.

At 47:39 you can also see the icon that you can change you stance through F2-F4, most likely crouch, sit, stand which will mean accuracy bonuses I think.

At 54:14 the bullet that missed impacts in the rock behind the enemy. This will mean stray bullets may hit other enemies through indirect fire, just as in JA2. Makes spray-and-pray a valid tactic again 🙂

 

Thank you!

What do you mean by "impacts"? At 54:14 I dont see anything, but while it looks like one of the bullet fails hitting the enemy and goes past it, this might just be incorrect displays. But it looks like its going into the bushes behind the enemy. I don't see how it does anything. So at this point it could still be completely visual only.

[SWi74]

On 9/19/2021 at 8:42 PM, Kordanor said:

-Turnbased uses ActionPoints (possibly not a 20/25 base but more like 10/15)

I really hope they reconsider. A 100 AP system allows for much more differentiation between weapons and character proficiency. There is a huge difference between how Raider would quad-load a shotgun vs how Ira would sneakingly try to get a shell in a shotgun. A gun with a chambered round would be quicker than an empty gun. Even newer AKs should be faster than AK-47. How do you implement this with 15 APs?

[Kordanor]

8 minutes ago, SWi74 said:

I really hope they reconsider. A 100 AP system allows for much more differentiation between weapons and character proficiency. There is a huge difference between how Raider would quad-load a shotgun vs how Ira would sneakingly try to get a shell in a shotgun. A gun with a chambered round would be quicker than an empty gun. Even newer AKs should be faster than AK-47. How do you implement this with 15 APs?

Tbh I think that approach is far too hardcore for most player, probably even for most JA players. I can definitely see the appeal of having 100 AP over 25 with JA2 to have everything much more granular and also to have less rounding weirdness. After all everyone should be able to do the same amount of shots and AP should should reflect running distance. But I think there are solutions for that which are about as good and much more intuitive. Phoenix Point is a good example. In Phoenix Point you got 4 AP, but you could use up fractions of AP for moving. So if you move 1 tile with a fast character he would only use 0.25 points, and a slow character uses 0.5 points. So even if you dont have fractions of points you can use that for movement. Then you wont have all the issues with AP calculations and rounding and 15 AP should be plenty for some granuality.

We already saw that they are going to replace Interrupts with overwatch. Which is - probably - also a good decision.

I like the base game and it's mechanics. But this is something where I can see that it's too complicated to fully understand. Interrupts and AP calculations are probably not even fully understood and utilized by all hardcore JA2 fans.

[Kordanor]

Btw, something I just realized about the momvent: It looks like movement costs 1 per tile in the trailer. However the characters have a little "sprint" icon. And it seems like on top of these AP you also have a free movement. So when Ivan moves, he uses up his free movement, but no AP. When fidel moves a longer distance, he uses his free movement+4AP for that.

[GODSPEED]

6 minutes ago, Kordanor said:

Tbh I think that approach is far too hardcore for most player, probably even for most JA players. 

 As much as I'd consider giving up my grandmother to get 100 ap in the game, you are right, it is not realistic. 1.13 is a mod made for only the hardcore fans, not your average normal player (and there is nothing wrong with a normal average player).

6 minutes ago, Kordanor said:

We already saw that they are going to replace Interrupts with overwatch. Which is - probably - also a good decision.

I like the base game and it's mechanics. But this is something where I can see that it's too complicated to fully understand. Interrupts and AP calculations are probably not even fully understood and utilized by all hardcore JA2 fans.

This is where, speaking for myself only, the nostalgia hits that wall. I won't lie, I've played the modern xcoms, enjoyed them, but never went back to them. Over-simplified system. They went for an approach that could serve to also easily be played on console.

 

I don't think we were more intelligent in 1999 than we are now, vice-versa. The interrupt system might seem a little abstract in concept, because, you don't see the numbers. It isn't quantified as a hard stat. But, that also serves as a natural extension of the experience your merc has. The difference between an experienced merc in combat makes an incredible difference, even if both would have the same marksmanship stat, simply because that interrupt can save you.

 

Having overwatch, just feels like over-simplified mechanic. It's a lazy implementation, meaning I have my doubts on the RPG elements this game will have.

 

I seriously wish they would leave the tried and true rpg elements from the JA series. They don't need to be reworked or re-imagined!

[Kordanor]

Imho XCom is the very opposite bad example though. I could never get into XCom because of its oversimplifications which made things illogical and unintuitive. Like the cover system where you have top hit chances even though the enemy would need to jump in the air and catch the bullet to get hit.

But between Firaxis XCom and JA2 (especially 1.13) there is a huuuuge spectrum of how detailed you can make stuff. Phoenix Point is doing a great job. Urban Strife is doing great as well.

Keep in mind that with interrupt you also have the granual calculation. How often did you bother to sneak and sidestep to avoid an interrupt? If you really want to utilize it fully the game can almost feel like if you were commanding each bodypart individually, almost like a mech. ^^

[Low_K]

13 hours ago, Kordanor said:

Thank you!

What do you mean by "impacts"? At 54:14 I dont see anything, but while it looks like one of the bullet fails hitting the enemy and goes past it, this might just be incorrect displays. But it looks like its going into the bushes behind the enemy. I don't see how it does anything. So at this point it could still be completely visual only.

As you see in the included screenie taken from the original trailer, as your video pauses a lot, rewinds, etc., you can see a puff of smoke when the bullet hits the bushes (the red circle). I also added the timestamp so that you can watch it in slow-mo.

My reasoning was, that if this missed shot wouldn't do anything, why not just let it disappear in thin air and not having it impact on the first thing it hits? Why animate an impact graphic, if missed shots cannot hit anything else. Maybe they did it for the eye candy, but I found it interesting.

[Low_K]

6 hours ago, Kordanor said:

Imho XCom is the very opposite bad example though. I could never get into XCom because of its oversimplifications which made things illogical and unintuitive. Like the cover system where you have top hit chances even though the enemy would need to jump in the air and catch the bullet to get hit.

But between Firaxis XCom and JA2 (especially 1.13) there is a huuuuge spectrum of how detailed you can make stuff. Phoenix Point is doing a great job. Urban Strife is doing great as well.

Keep in mind that with interrupt you also have the granual calculation. How often did you bother to sneak and sidestep to avoid an interrupt? If you really want to utilize it fully the game can almost feel like if you were commanding each bodypart individually, almost like a mech. ^^

I absolutely loved XCOM, XCOM2 even more. Netted 800+ hours in both games (900+ in XCOM2). I think the Firaxis system works, as this is a mainstream game. If you dissect the combat system with LOS and such, sure it is sometimes ridiculous. But that was also the charm of XCOM/XCOM2; If you miss a 95% shot it would be just that; "That's XCOM, baby!".

Jagged Alliance 2 was never a huge game nor was the original X-Com. They cater the niche gamers as XCOM caters for more mainstream players because of the simplification of the combat. The combat works in XCOM, and is brutal but totally not compareable to JA2 or any other Action Point game. I never played Phoenix Point as that developer is a lying piece of *beep*, but I highly doubt it had the same exposure, and player numbers, as the XCOM games did. Firaxis boosted the turn-based genre with their games, as after the release of XCOM, turn-based games popped up everywhere and every turn-based release gets compared to XCOM. Not with Jagged Alliance. Simplifying the combat by Firaxis has triggered the development of Jagged Alliance 3 in its current form, imho. Companies see that turn-based strategy RPG's are back on the menu, boys! (and girls, and non-binary, and X, and who knows what else to satisfy the SJW crowd), and actively develop them to profit of Firaxis' reboot. 

Most younglings probably haven't even heard of Jagged Alliance, the original X-Com, or the game where the X-Com/XCOM franchise started with; Laser Squad. Mainstream players nowadays want simple to understand mechanics and great graphics.

Furthermore, the XCOM games really stick (with me that is) with the customisation of your soldiers. This is the same with JA2; you get to love (and hate) certain characters which makes bonding with your team better as opposed to generic names which you don't care about. This adds to the startegy part as you are much more careful to not let them die. This is why I hope they add the I.M.P. customisation in Jagged Alliance 3, so that you can "bond" with the main character as well as the familiar faces.

[Kordanor]

1 hour ago, Low_K said:

...

Yeah, playing XCom isnt impossible and you can learn it. But it's like going from a Racing simulation to an arcade racer where you need to open your doors to make the car go faster.

Maybe a bit like what Legend of Grimrock was for the crawlers. Which btw, is also a game I don't like but which got my respect for reviving the genre. ^^

And hey, give the Phoenix Point Developer some credit. If Julian Gollop didnt do what he did, we wouldn't have had a JA Franchise in the first place. ^^

[Kordanor]

1 hour ago, Low_K said:

My reasoning was, that if this missed shot wouldn't do anything, why not just let it disappear in thin air and not having it impact on the first thing it hits? Why animate an impact graphic, if missed shots cannot hit anything else. Maybe they did it for the eye candy, but I found it interesting.

Hah, you are right. Good eye! I didnt see the puff of smoke.

[Low_K]

15 minutes ago, Kordanor said:

And hey, give the Phoenix Point Developer some credit. If Julian Gollop didnt do what he did, we wouldn't have had a JA Franchise in the first place. ^^

Julian Gollop got some credit from me when I backed his Phoenix Point Kickstarter, after which he suddenly decided to screw every Steam backer by going exclusively to Epic. The credit quickly was gone afterwards 😄

[GODSPEED]

Just felt like chipping into this xcom-argument.

But before I spill the beans, I would just like to make it clear to all parties involved that opinions are just that, opinions, what I like or dislike doesn't mean I think someone else is stupid for dis/liking that thing. Just in case what I say sounds crude...

The most experience I have with the old xcoms, is Apocalypse. I really enjoyed the deep layers of strategic/tactical choices you had when starting a mission/combat/map. You had the choice to try and scout the perimeter, go all in the center, split your squad into small groups, big groups.. etc.

There is a positive aspect to simplification of a game. The modern xcoms being a good example.

Unfortunately, for me, I completed them once, put them aside and never came back. What I like in a game like JA and old Xcoms are the immense amount of choice and way of going about each and every location. Not only in WHERE I want to be on a map, but in each individual turn. The ability to micro-manage the AP's to really squeeze the maximum I can out of each situation.

I remember many big battles I've had in JA2, but I cannot remember a single battle in the modern Xcoms.

I remember having my player character down and unconscious while the Drassen Counter-Attack. I was too proud and I decided to move him up too far and he ended up on the brink of death. (I only reload if MY character dies.. and the Drassen Counter-Attack of 1.13 is sooo long). Using pretty much every merc I had, I got them ALL out of covered position in 2 turns, ran to my character, covered with suppressive fire and smoke grenades... just so I could get a Dr. Q to give him a regen and patch him up.

That was such an intense battle, I remember it years after. And I remember many other occasions as well, close calls, dangerous situations, near wipeouts.. etc.


In new xcom, the battles feel too linear, you can't really use distractions, suppression, smokescreens and imaginative tactics to set yourself up or whatnot. You litteraly WANT to avoid fighting multiple groups of ennemies. Overwatch is just an oversimplified mechanic that really only relies on 'marksmanship' alone.

In JA2, interrupts really scaled with the mercs experience. They provided an abstract but realistic way to cover your angles... and like in real life, sometimes you we're simply outgunned, outmaneuvered and outmanned.


Okay that was too long, anyone want to buy that book?

In short, I enjoy the micromanaging aspect of a system like JA2 and I don't like the board game system like new xcom as much. I love board games though.

[Viktor]

Hellow!

-Has a Pindown Mechanic now

You can explain in simple words what kind of mechanics it is. I do not know English well.

[Wigen]

Who do you think the voice that says, "Soliders incoming. Pull back!"? Len or Shadow maybe?

It always makes me wonder when I come back to the trailer.

 

Edited April 11, 2022 by Wigen

[Hendrix]

11 hours ago, Wigen said:

Who do you think the voice that says, "Soliders incoming. Pull back!"? Len or Shadow maybe?

It always makes me wonder when I come back to the trailer.

 

Len or Shadow, pull back? Nah, that must mean our good friend Lance Fisher is back! 😂

"Due to persistent personality clashes with Victoria Waters, Lance was asked to resign from A.I.M. in exchange for a posting at Westpoint Military Academy. He accepted and is currently an instructor of ethics and tactical withdrawal, a subject he recently published a book on. "Beating a path to safety without screaming." is available at most military college bookstores." - Jagged Alliance 2 Alumni gallery

[LoboNocturno]

Good analyst Kordanor, i watched your reaction video shortly after you uploaded it. Really well made, good i can understand also German so it was fun to watch, wish they were more analyze/reaction videos of the trailer from other Jagged Alliance hardcore fans.

 

In my opinion from the trailer i have seen (probably watched it more than 100 times so far 😁) it looks like a mixture of Jagged Alliance Rage & XCOM 2.

Have played Jagged Alliance Rage minimum from start to finish at least 20 times now, even if its not the perfect game its still pretty fun imo (though too easy after playing it so many times even in hard difficulty, wish they were a harder difficulty, anyway.)

The story is really very weak, Elliot making a comeback and becoming even the boss lol, the map designs are overall poor (you can see that they didnt made good effort to the game (low budget indie game anyway), its more like a mobile phone game). But its straight forward and fun, am used already to the playing system on Jagged Alliance Rage so if Jagged Alliance 3 will be similar and even with more improved mechanics, much better graphics (map design) which i think will be from what we seeing from the short trailer, it will be simply amazing. Am in love especially with the swamp screenshot where our mercenaries are walking inside the swamp (wouldnt mind if there will be few crocodiles too for surprise attack inside the swamp, it would bring us extra danger & panic. Like we had the tigers in JA2), it looks so realistic. 

 

The weather conditions looks amazing as well and hope it will affect to our shooting skills, then i can remember in 1 statement of Kordanor he was mentioning that to bring night environment would be harder for the game makers (its may true) but Jagged Alliance without night conditions (yes in JA1 we didnt had night but thats also a game from 1995) is a huge minus for me. I enjoyed the night battles a lot in Jagged Alliance 2, using night vision and all, was so much fun. I mean its even on Jagged Alliance Rage. Gotta have gas masks as well for the gas attacks.

Am in love with the weapon variety on Jagged Alliance Rage, hope the weapon selection will be huge in JA3, but since JA3 will take part shortly after JA2 (1999,2000) probably around 2001 - 2005 range we wouldnt have some of todays modern weapons?

 

Then again what i really noticed from the trailer and screen shots is the dresses (uniforms) of the mercs are somehow strange (funny) Ivan is wearing a Soviet WW2 uniform (doesnt look bad but odd imo) or Fidel`s uniform also looks like a WW2 uniform.

Hope we can change they look a bit hopefully, especially to give them different kind of modern helmets, tactical vets, gear (all should be visible on the characters when they put it on) etc... Like in Jagged Alliance Rage (they really tried it there).

 

Also my other concern is if Jagged Alliance will be really a mixture of JA Rage and XCOM 2 (which it seems) there will be not stunning blood & gore effects. In my opinion that is also important, i was enjoying in JA2 the brutal effects (in my taste it could have even more brutal) where you could splash the heads to pieces especially when you were sniping them from the roof top with a sniper or when you would burst fire them to they body sometimes there were some gore effects or when you kill a enemy in the water the water would be also covered with blood and some other effects i may forget.

Our mercenaries should be also able to die, not just fall unconsciouss like in Jagged Alliance Rage.

Destroying walls with bombs (explosive items) would be also very cool in JA3. Setting some traps, mines etc as well.

Then what i also noticed from the trailer is when you hiring the merc, they dont speak but writing you instead. Hopefully they will talk too when you hire them, it will be simply cooler than you writing.

 

Just hope they take they time to better the game, no need for rush as we (Jagged Alliance hardcore fans) are waiting already for such a long time (over 20 years). I can wait a lil longer to be honest. Last but not least hope they will bring it shortly after the release to PS5 as well.

 

Lastly to mention about XCOM 2, i played it briefly but didnt liked it, the gameplay is very similar to Jagged Alliance Rage even more advanced to be honest but so so high % shots even can be missing most of the times and fighting against silly designed (very childish for my taste) overpowered aliens its totally not my thing.

 

PS : If someone is willing to play Jagged Alliance Rage online multiplayer can add me up on PlayStation : LoboNocturno2020

[Kordanor]

Time for an update with the new trailer. Unfortunately its not possible in this forum to edit old posts, so I cant update the main thing.

I did a new Trailer Analysis (German, see in the bottom). But here is the summary of what I (and others) found in the trailer:

New Characters: Grunty, Barry, Red, Raven, Omryn (new), Smiley (new)

Clear new Info:
Some Weapon Bonuses only apply on max aim
Morale implemented
Overwatch area range can be decided by player
Overwatch can be set up outside of combat
Overwatch can be triggered up to 3 times of max AP are used
Enemy get extra move when starting combat
This extra Move can trigger Overwatch
Multiple height levels (up to 3 were visible in trailer)
Projectiles can pass through enemies
Grenades have a "mishap chance"
Grenades cann destruct environment (not just at pre determined positions)

Unclear New Info:
Some kind of challenge showing in tactical view
0:30s shown during combat in the top
As you can attach lights on your weapons it's likely you got night missions in darkness
Neither the original trailer nor the new trailer features voice acting during combat, which makes is extremely unlikely that there will be voice-acting in the final game (outside of Intro and similar)

Differences to previous trailer:
Hit percentage no longer Shown
Weather display no longer shown on tactical map

 

Edited August 13, 2022 by Kordanor

[Flowable]

Thanks @Kordanor, my German is very rusty, but i could understand like 20% of it (i think). I hope you're going to cover Jagged Alliance on Kordanor's Gaming Lair

[Jos the Jackal]

I would really like for them to bring back Ice and Magic. They were a fantastic duo.