Difficulty curve, income, scarcity, etc

[Raeven]

Been following a lot of the conversation about ammo and med scarcity, scarcity of money, enemies feeling overpowered compared to your squad, not having adequate info from the game on CtH, morale changes, tiredness, etc.

I just wanna say that I'm a decent chunk into the game on commando difficulty, my very first playthrough. I've captured a second mine and had all my mercs initial 2 week contracts expire and renewed them. While the game is tough, I'm getting by just fine. I've come close to running out of AK ammo, almost couldn't renew my most expensive mercs contract (Vicki), and had to save scum a bit on one particular fight - but I was able to get through by the skin of my teeth, which feels like how it should be. For me, the difficulty curve is pretty much exactly where I want it to be - I'm not having to restart my playthrough in frustration or look into installing mods, but I never feel like I can relax or let up for even a moment, either. 

I have a lot of quibbles about the game I'll expound upon later - learning that 'vendors' are just characters selling 1-2 items at a time or tables that occasionally rotate stock of a single item was a big letdown. But from a difficulty standpoint, I just want to provide a counter-example to all the conversation I've heard saying that the game balance is broken - I don't think that is the case, I think it is just a difficult and punishing game, particularly on harder difficulty levels, and I'm *really* happy that ammo scarcity, for example, is an actual issue. Too often with these kinds of RPG games you never have to think about that sort of stuff, and here you really do, and that's great, imo - so long as the game remains playable and beatable, which it seems to be thus far.

I'm not a fan of soulslikes, but I think JA3 should take a badge from that genre and not apologize for being a hard game that constantly keeps you on your toes. The tools are all there to play and beat the game as designed, you just have to learn what it is teaching you about how it works.

Anyway, just my $.02. I'm curious what others experience has been in this regard.

Edited July 18, 2023 by Raeven

[Koinsky]

As a mere observer (i'm aching to get the game running but still away from may computer for another week) i think the game reminds me a lot of my experience with JA2. Getting my ass kicked very soon, (that's probably what is happening with the people who didn't know the series, or go in blind (i have seen quite a few videos already so i know more or less what to expect when my turn comes.
 
Then there are those like you, who go into the game fairly prepared, adjust to the changes and move on. I'm hoping to fit this category once i play.

There is a third kind of player i have only hints from, those who only want to play on ironman top difficulty. Those will find the game also imbalanced because they will find one or two optimal mechanics to abuse and will say the others are useless. 

I'm taking all opinions with a grain of salt, but i am glad most people seem to be enjoying the game, and finding in it the playsttyle that they find fun.

[Beak]

I agree, the game is tough, but that makes those wins all the more rewarding. 

[sandman25dcsss]

The game does warn about being hard and does not call first difficulty level as "Story" so some concerns are covered I think.

I found the easiest difficulty hard to play when you refuse to use stealth kills or train mercs, but fortunately there are still mods which greatly help like tripling ammo drop, moving more item types into squad inventory and permanent mines.

[J1v1n]

The initial post describes my experience perfectly or in short: challenging in many ways but definitely managable and in the end very rewarding when successful. 🤩

[MateKiddleton]

Even with JA2 and Silent Storm knowledge (stealth mechanics are very similar), the game is quite punishing. Just have to adapt to new strategies. 

 

Also had a look at a youtube demo of the CtH mod. It really completely changes the game to EZ mode. When you see your CtH change in real time while aiming it really makes it a different game. I had to see it in action to see how big an impact it makes.

[Jaywalker]

Once you get over the first big hurdle of securing a proper weapon (with ammo) it's not that hard of a game... at least until they take away your training wheels mid-game.

[D13]

One part that reminds me of JA2 is when after the introductory battles, you still only have pistols and other short range weapons, but the enemies start using rifles. That early range ratio (mismatch) is more severe than during later stages of JA2, and I'm looking forward to seeing how JA3 manages gun progression.

[Xeth Nyrrow]

The devs claimed not having Bobby Ray's in the game was replaced with local vendors in game turned out to not be enough. The vendors really need to carry a much larger variety of gear as a money sink so you can choose between merc contracts or gear. This is something that can probably be modded as it seems like it didn't quite hit the mark with the design choice they made.

[GODSPEED]

I'm probably not all that far into the game.. I'm a slow player and a completionist as well. So I tend to have to explore every nook & cranny.

But after nearly 30 hours of play, while the game mechanics don't feel Jagged Alliance, the balance does.

Actually, it feels like what I think Jagged Alliance should feel.. hitting a wall, scrounging and at some point and then bathing in money (I mean, after all, mines are extremely profitable)!!

I'm enjoying the balance, and to be honest, my only regret is not having started the game in a harder difficulty. I had debaterd going Commando to start, but I wasn't sure if the game was going to be one of those like Xcom 2 with timed crap and super tight puzzles.

Next time I play, it'll be the hardest diff, because on the standard one, it's kind of a breeze.. and I don't even have a GOLD AIM account. Nor do I plan to. Half my mercs are recruits. Same as JA2...


My issue is that, some changes in mechanics, I don't like, but at the same time, they bring another positive I do like.

I don't like "perks" and unique abilities, feels too gamey/xcom... but at the same time, it brings fresh life to playing with weapons that we're harder to keep playing with in JA2.

Pistols, shotguns, smgs (MP5K, UZI) now feel like I can play with those over the long term, simply due to some perks.

Hey, it's a little bit of give & take right.. Really enjoying the game though!!

[Raeven]

11 minutes ago, GODSPEED said:

I'm probably not all that far into the game.. I'm a slow player and a completionist as well. So I tend to have to explore every nook & cranny.

But after nearly 30 hours of play, while the game mechanics don't feel Jagged Alliance, the balance does.

Actually, it feels like what I think Jagged Alliance should feel.. hitting a wall, scrounging and at some point and then bathing in money (I mean, after all, mines are extremely profitable)!!

I'm enjoying the balance, and to be honest, my only regret is not having started the game in a harder difficulty. I had debaterd going Commando to start, but I wasn't sure if the game was going to be one of those like Xcom 2 with timed crap and super tight puzzles.

Next time I play, it'll be the hardest diff, because on the standard one, it's kind of a breeze.. and I don't even have a GOLD AIM account. Nor do I plan to. Half my mercs are recruits. Same as JA2...


My issue is that, some changes in mechanics, I don't like, but at the same time, they bring another positive I do like.

I don't like "perks" and unique abilities, feels too gamey/xcom... but at the same time, it brings fresh life to playing with weapons that we're harder to keep playing with in JA2.

Pistols, shotguns, smgs (MP5K, UZI) now feel like I can play with those over the long term, simply due to some perks.

Hey, it's a little bit of give & take right.. Really enjoying the game though!!

I'm happy to hear you're enjoying it with an open mind. For my part, some of the things that I thought wouldn't be a big deal ended up being a letdown, and there's more jankiness in some aspects than I expected. So I guess we're here now , meeting somewhere in the middle compared to where we were during pre-release 🙂

Mostly I'm just happy we have a real JA game after all this time and past missed opportunities. Honestly never thought this would happen, or that it would be this good.

[Claudius33]

I had a good feeling about JA3 since the very beginning. I actually joined the forum when the beta footages appeared, basically just to say that.

Needless to say I'm not disappointed and I'm thoroughly enjoying the game. I've already experienced some memorable fights.

Like @GODSPEED I'm a slow player.

Of course the game is not perfect, there is room for improvments. But JA2 was not perfect either.

In a nutshell  : it feels JA, nice environment as expected, music better than expected, combat better than expected, good balance, many new possibilities, challenging, quests and choices as expected, writing ok but I must confess I was expecting a bit more.

[edmortimer]

I have to congratulate the devs -- this is truly a Jagged Alliance game. The difficulty curve, income scarcity, etc, it's all there in Jagged Alliance glory (and waiting to be modded). 🙂

[GODSPEED]

7 hours ago, D13 said:

One part that reminds me of JA2 is when after the introductory battles, you still only have pistols and other short range weapons, but the enemies start using rifles. That early range ratio (mismatch) is more severe than during later stages of JA2, and I'm looking forward to seeing how JA3 manages gun progression.

Yep! Always my favourite part of the game. I guess THIS is the part that is referred to most when we talk about JA having that "Action Movie" vibe... being able to take out military units, using pistols and SMG's. Arnold Schwarzenegger style! 😅

'Cause once you hit the high-tech and modern weaponry and a team of pro's, overthrowing a dictator is  somewhat "realistic".
 

1 hour ago, Raeven said:

I'm happy to hear you're enjoying it with an open mind. For my part, some of the things that I thought wouldn't be a big deal ended up being a letdown, and there's more jankiness in some aspects than I expected. So I guess we're here now , meeting somewhere in the middle compared to where we were during pre-release 🙂

Mostly I'm just happy we have a real JA game after all this time and past missed opportunities. Honestly never thought this would happen, or that it would be this good.

😊
 

6 minutes ago, Claudius33 said:

writing ok but I must confess I was expecting a bit more.

Put it this way, I prefer the way writing was done in JA2, by a mile! The way the NPC's speak, the lines they say, the interjectins your mercs share.. they feel - for the most part - like what the person, with the description of their profile, would say.. it feels grounded enough to feel like a realistic personality.

JA3 has that modern treatment (and I'm not using "modern" in the good way) like every movie now has; Every movie that is released within the past couple decades is always over-the-top, humour that tries too hard. It's like they cranked it a few too many notches. You watch and in your mind just go... "guys, give it a break, your not helping me feel immersed in your story!"
Movies with Arnold, Stallone, etc... weren't nearly as bad.

In JA2, I never once had a cringe moment, even after 18+ years playing it, none of the lines or dialogues feel cringe.
In JA3, quite a few of the mercs have lines that I feel just way too poorly written. Trying too hard to be funny. It lacks the subtlety of JA2 in that department.

[Elder III]

I chose First Blood since I didn't want to be rushed due to economic reasons on my first playthrough. I'm around 18 hours in and have enjoyed every bit of it. Now that I am more familiar with the mechanics I've been starting to feel like combat is a little on the easy side, but that might change later in other areas. I'm leaning towards Commando difficulty for tougher enemies but keeping Forgiving Mode for easier cashflow, although I think I'll probably complete my playthrough first.

 

Overall it seems that many of the people I have seen complaining about everything related to combat balance have the CTH mod shown in their screenshots. Considering that the game was explicitly stated as being designed around NOT having that... I can understand why it feels unbalanced to them.

All in all, I'm just delighted to have a real JA game that is good quality in it's own right as well. 🙂

[sandman25dcsss]

17 minutes ago, Elder III said:

Overall it seems that many of the people I have seen complaining about everything related to combat balance have the CTH mod shown in their screenshots. Considering that the game was explicitly stated as being designed around NOT having that... I can understand why it feels unbalanced to them.

"Mid to late game balance: silenced sniper simulator"

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1084160/discussions/0/7405657202103654747/

[D13]

Picking the right difficulty is a challenge. The first battle (flag hill) feels super easy (everyone with handguns), then the next sector we encounter rifles while we have only handguns - can feel too difficult, same with Ernie. What helped me was to get rifles and then create savegames for the following battles (Ernie defense, minefield, Rust) to practice with, again and again. It's great that difficulty can be changed mid-game, that made experimenting much easier.

 

[Claudius33]

1 hour ago, GODSPEED said:

Put it this way, I prefer the way writing was done in JA2, by a mile!

Me too. Keep in mind that JA2 writing was done by Shaun Lyng, a master.

I'd prefer to log a lot more game hours before fully commenting about writing and immersion. There are good things and no so good things in my opinion. But again I'm really enjoying the game.

[Remi1987]

On 7/18/2023 at 2:33 AM, Raeven said:

Been following a lot of the conversation about ammo and med scarcity, scarcity of money, enemies feeling overpowered compared to your squad, not having adequate info from the game on CtH, morale changes, tiredness, etc.

I just wanna say that I'm a decent chunk into the game on commando difficulty, my very first playthrough. I've captured a second mine and had all my mercs initial 2 week contracts expire and renewed them. While the game is tough, I'm getting by just fine. I've come close to running out of AK ammo, almost couldn't renew my most expensive mercs contract (Vicki), and had to save scum a bit on one particular fight - but I was able to get through by the skin of my teeth, which feels like how it should be. For me, the difficulty curve is pretty much exactly where I want it to be - I'm not having to restart my playthrough in frustration or look into installing mods, but I never feel like I can relax or let up for even a moment, either. 

I have a lot of quibbles about the game I'll expound upon later - learning that 'vendors' are just characters selling 1-2 items at a time or tables that occasionally rotate stock of a single item was a big letdown. But from a difficulty standpoint, I just want to provide a counter-example to all the conversation I've heard saying that the game balance is broken - I don't think that is the case, I think it is just a difficult and punishing game, particularly on harder difficulty levels, and I'm *really* happy that ammo scarcity, for example, is an actual issue. Too often with these kinds of RPG games you never have to think about that sort of stuff, and here you really do, and that's great, imo - so long as the game remains playable and beatable, which it seems to be thus far.

I'm not a fan of soulslikes, but I think JA3 should take a badge from that genre and not apologize for being a hard game that constantly keeps you on your toes. The tools are all there to play and beat the game as designed, you just have to learn what it is teaching you about how it works.

Anyway, just my $.02. I'm curious what others experience has been in this regard.

Spending almost all my gun powder on crafting basic 7.62 AK47 ammo.
I go equip some squad members with other guns I realize now.
This ammo only for the snipers and skilled one-bullet hitters.

[Remi1987]

I got one more mine to capture, and conquer the outposts, then also finish all the side quests, but I'm progressing well.
So far very few stealth kills, and zero melee characters and kills.
I'm all in on the accuracy bonuses (perks and weapon mods) and from high-ground bonuses, and then high marksmen.
Slowly up-leveling the squad, getting a new one and firing an old one.

Now recently working with 2 squads and attacking one sector. Saves me a lot of time (and money) on wound healing as well.