Admins on the Discord forum admitted, that they never even played JA2.

[Inveris]

On the Discord, fans are trying to describe every aspect of the game, what they would or would not like. The FAQ section is established. There are people who have spent a lot of time with the game, who deeply understand it, know exactly what level of gameplay this game represents. They have the assurance that the majority is read and that the most important matters are passed on. Suddenly, one of the admins writes something like this:

Quote

"HOME" 06.10 2021 said:

So then I will fully admit I havent played JA 2 before but going by what I have seen so far I am confident I can get behind it whats the finest "advice" you can bestow upon me

I still have the conviction that I must have misunderstood something, but this literally indicates, that the JA2 sequel is going to be made by people who have never played JA2 and even they don't know what version choose to play (JA2 or Wildfire or 1.13).

Maybe these people do not play an important role in this entire production, but what is the point of talking to someone about JA2, who does not have the slightest idea about the JA2.

 

 

But I still have hope I read something wrong.

 

 

Edited October 9, 2021 by Inveris

[GODSPEED]

Taking this new information into account, I guess I'll correct some of what I said in another topic.

On 9/20/2021 at 12:16 PM, GODSPEED said:

But. Yes, BUT, I would like to say something, because us JA2 fans, especially the ones who have really got themselves into 1.13 mod... we have to be realistic and NOT EXPECT 1.13-like features.

Correction:
we have to be realistic and NOT EXPECT JA2-like features.

 

On 9/20/2021 at 12:16 PM, GODSPEED said:

1.13 was a labor of love by the most devoted fans and a thing of love for JA2. It is incredibly important not to put those expectations on devs that: 1. most likely NEVER even played JA2, 2. aren't necessarily in love with the type of setting in JA2, 3. don't necessarily care for "realism" and 4. aren't necessarily weapon buffs or gun nuts.

Correction:
1. have NEVER even played JA2

 

On 9/20/2021 at 12:16 PM, GODSPEED said:

You cannot expect 1.13 level of dedication that is STILL being worked on by ppl who are making a game for work. The passion, commitment, love and dedication is NOT that same, regardless how they market it.

Correction:
You cannot expect JA2 level of detail.



 

2 hours ago, Inveris said:

I still have the conviction that I must have misunderstood something, but this literally indicates, that the JA2 sequel is going to be made by people who have never played JA2 and even they don't know what version choose to play (JA2 or Wildfire or 1.13).

I don't mean to break anyones bubble here, nor am I trying to act like a know-it-all... but when I first saw the trailer reveal.. I was pretty excited!

But, once I gave that excitement a week, I decided to go take a closer look at the video by my own self and "studied" the screenshots, the video gameplay section and everything I saw; pretty much told me these devs hav NOT played that game.


I've been in a few conversations with other members on this forum, especially when it comes down to what is acceptable as changes in gameplay mechanics whitin the game.. and as much as I respect everyones opinion of what changes are acceptable or not, these aren't even discussions we should be having!

Let me repeat that clearly:
IF WE HAVE TO DISCUSS WHAT CHANGES TO THE CORE MECHANICS ARE ACCEPTABLE, SOMETHING IS TERRIBLY WRONG!

If this dev team, or those who make the decisions about JA3, had EVER played or even CARE about the Jagged Alliance name, they would know that Jagged Alliance 2 has quite a few unique mechanics and features that are in no other game and they would do their best to keep that core uniqueness intact..

..instead, we've been presented with a modern Turn-Based Strategy game (aka Phoenix Point, new xcrap..com and derivatives) and it's been dressed up with a few famous names thrown-in, a few faces we know and a "look" that could pass for Jagged Alliance.

 

2 hours ago, Inveris said:

Maybe these people do not play an important role in this entire production, but what is the point of talking to someone about JA2, who does not have the slightest idea about the JA2.

But I still have hope I read something wrong.

How are you supposed to pass on relevant information to the team if you "think" you understand what JA2 is all about, but you've never experienced it?

You've not misread anything. We're dealing with pretty much the same issues we've dealt with in every past attempt at a JA revival; a lack of understanding, passion and respect for what they are trying to "revive".

[Sarin]

Aren't you a little bit overreacting? Most serious developer teams have someone taking care of social media and PR full time without having any say in the actual game design.

[Wigen]

In my opinion, the people from THQ Nordic will not tell us much about the mechanics on the game, so I wouldn't count on too much commitment.

 

The only thing you have to wait for is someone's response from Haemimont Games. I think they have some kind of community contact there.

 

 

Edited October 9, 2021 by Wigen

[Inveris]

1 hour ago, Sarin said:

Most serious developer teams have someone taking care of social media and PR full time without having any say in the actual game design.

Yes, it's true, but if on the Discord are people mainly responsible for PR, they are doing their job very inappropriately.

If they are responsible for social media and the PR of JA3, then they should be largely familiar with this product, but instead of that, they write publicly, that they don't have the faintest idea about it.

Unfortunately that affects the image of the entire project and the entire team, that is going to made JA3.

 

 

1 hour ago, Wigen said:

The only thing you have to wait for is someone's response from Haemimont Games.there.

I am also counting on information about a more specific direction of this game, from people who are closest to the production, because that would be the most reliable information.

Edited October 9, 2021 by Inveris

[Acid]

16 hours ago, Sarin said:

Aren't you a little bit overreacting? Most serious developer teams have someone taking care of social media and PR full time without having any say in the actual game design.

Yeah I'd be more worried if it was the actual developer who hadn't played JA2.

[SWi74]

52 minutes ago, Acid said:

Yeah I'd be more worried if it was the actual developer who hadn't played JA2.

Same. Which is not the case. I think they are familiar enough having made this trailer version, including JA2 mercs and claiming it will be a true successor. They are not taking part in any of the forums obviously and I'm starting to think they shouldn't. Half of the stuff here isn't answerable anyway.

[GODSPEED]

4 hours ago, SWi74 said:

Half of the stuff here isn't answerable anyway.

🤣

 

 

hmm.. thinking about all the conversations that have been going on here. I think most of the ideas, hopes, fears.. could have been avoided had they been active on the forum day 1.

It's been 2 weeks and not a single word. So what's left of us to do but to start trading arguments, ideas and things we want?

If I was at Haemimont, I would NOT want to join here right now.. I'd probably be ddepressed and take another week off...

.. goddamnit!!! now I gotta simulate chambering that +1 round!!!! 🥵


😂

Edited October 10, 2021 by GODSPEED

[Wigen]

And I think that from tomorrow the situation will change and slowly, gradually, creators and developers will be visiting here.

At least I hope this one will...

 

Edited October 10, 2021 by Wigen

[uri91]

On 10/9/2021 at 8:45 PM, Inveris said:

На Discord фанаты пытаются описать каждый аспект игры. Создан раздел FAQ. Есть люди, которые провели много времени с игрой, которые глубоко ее понимают, точно знают, какой уровень игрового процесса представляет собой эта игра. У них есть уверенность в том, что большинство прочитано, самые важные вопросы переданы. Вдруг один из админов пишет что-то вроде этого:

У меня все еще есть убеждение, что я понял, что-то неправильно, но это означает, что продолжение JA2 будет сделано людьми, которые никогда не играют в JA2 и даже не знают, какую версию выбрать для игры (JA2 или Wildfire или 1.13).

Может быть, эти люди не играют роли во всем этом продакшене, но какой смысл говорить о JA2 с кем-то, кто не имеет ни малейшего представления о JA2.

 

 

Но я все еще надеюсь, что прочитал что-то не так.

 

 

 (((((

Edited October 11, 2021 by uri91

[GODSPEED]

On 10/9/2021 at 3:23 PM, Sarin said:

Aren't you a little bit overreacting? Most serious developer teams have someone taking care of social media and PR full time without having any say in the actual game design.

With the amount of times us die hard JA2 fans have been burnt by "promises", illusions and hopes of a proper Jagged Alliance game, I think we're FAR from overreacting here!

Quite the opposite, I think we've had enough of the Jagged Alliance being handled by those who have no idea WHAT Jagged Alliance is. At some point, enough is enough, if we "beat around the bush" or are constantly saying things like (we'll see, maybe it will be good).. we'll be dissapointed yet again!

For once, since Jagged Alliance 2, we have a dev team that has more experience making games, and also probably a bigger budget... but they are backed by a Publisher who signed off on that Rage game... which has NO SIMILARITIES with Jagged Alliance! They used names and themes that are close, that's it!

Unless fans are VERY CLEAR about what is acceptable or not, we have absolutely NO CHANCE of them making a proper Jagged Alliance game.

It's a game, I realize that, I won't lose sleep or go into depression because they would release a mediocre JA game... but I sure as hell want a proper 3rd entry!

[Wigen]

In my opinion, you shouldn't put so much pressure on the creators. It is worth noting that Haemimont Games, unlike other game developers that have so far created Jagged Alliance, is a very experienced studio because it has been producing games for over 24 years.

Of course, any criticism is admissible, but in this situation I would not exaggerate. I think the time will come for them to share their new material with us here on the forum. I guess it's a matter of days.

 

Edited October 11, 2021 by Wigen

[saintpumpkin]

.... and please, just stop asking for 1.13 features. That's just nerdy stuff.

Edited October 12, 2021 by saintpumpkin

[GODSPEED]

2 hours ago, saintpumpkin said:

.... and please, just stop asking for 1.13 features. That's just nerdy stuff.

What's this!??

     Our first troll here!!?

 

Well, putting aside my sarcasm...

...Jagged Alliance 2 is a nerdy game!

 

 

I would think that MOST 1.13 players would like some/many features integrated into JA3.

 

It's kind of natural; just as JA2 upped the complexity on JA, we would like the complexity upped from JA2.

 

So if to you that is "nerdy", then hey!!! We're all a bunch of nerds..

..time to party like its 1999!!! 🤓

[saintpumpkin]

18 hours ago, GODSPEED said:

What's this!??

     Our first troll here!!?

I'm not a troll i think, just a guy which play Vanilla JA2 from 1999 (don't like 1.13 at all or simply want to replicate the original experience). 

You should ask for an easy way to mod the game in my opinion because not everyone wants a "more complex" game.

Edited October 13, 2021 by saintpumpkin

[LXant]

24 minutes ago, saintpumpkin said:

I'm not a troll i think, just a guy which play Vanilla JA2 from 1999 (don't like 1.13 at all or simply want to replicate the original experience). 

You should ask for an easy way to mod the game in my opinion because not everyone wants a "more complex" game.

 

Complexity isn't bad, but you're right that it does have to serve a purpose and be more than a tedious time sink. Some things are better left in the past.

So, I agree with you. Moddability is important. Let's not forget that JA2 wouldn't have had its great success without mods.

[GODSPEED]

1 hour ago, saintpumpkin said:

just a guy which play Vanilla JA2 from 1999 (don't like 1.13 at all or simply want to replicate the original experience). 

You should ask for an easy way to mod the game in my opinion because not everyone wants a "more complex" game.

I'm not really certain what you mean though. And my troll comment was really a joke!!

 

1.13 doesn't change anything from standard JA2. Any and ALL complexities they added or built on are completely and absolutely optional!

 

1.13 is more like an unofficial patch. The simple matter of being able to play JA2 but with a slightly higher resolution to scale with modern displays, in itself makes 1.13 a must.

 

Not only that, but 1.13 is a foundation. It's simply work that permitted the externilization of information to make modding easier. So, 1.13 is one of the most basic foundation for complete mods and simple map reworks.

 

Gold edition JA2 1.12 already was the start of it in a way, it upped the res and fixed stuff.

 

I'm not really sure why you are against 1.13 when it's what a mod should do.. Permit for harder difficulties, open up things that the original devs never had time to complete and permit more comfortable play on modern systems..

..all that while keeping JA2 absolutely intact!

 

 

 

[Acid]

As long as they allow mod tools for JA3, we should see 1.13 type of mods being made for it. But for the base game, the focus should be on making the core game good, that's what's important.

[edmortimer]

<sigh> never played it . . . well, that's that. No amount of modding can fix what ain't even there to begin with.

 

 

[Hendrix]

On 10/14/2021 at 11:06 AM, Acid said:

As long as they allow mod tools for JA3, we should see 1.13 type of mods being made for it. But for the base game, the focus should be on making the core game good, that's what's important.

I completely agree.

As much as I love 1.13 with all its features, I sadly belive that in todays gaming development and gaming climate, it is not feasible economically for a studio to develop and market a game as complex as 1.13 at its core.

From my view, just like you said Acid, the best I can hope for is a solid and good JA2-in-3D-ish game at its core, with everything fairly easily moddable.

[RedFox]

On 10/13/2021 at 11:47 PM, saintpumpkin said:

I'm not a troll i think, just a guy which play Vanilla JA2 from 1999 (don't like 1.13 at all or simply want to replicate the original experience). 

You should ask for an easy way to mod the game in my opinion because not everyone wants a "more complex" game.

If you've never played a mod don't trash it because it's not vanilla,you simply have no idea what your talking about and it makes you seem like a cancerous mole on the community here

[RedFox]

On 10/14/2021 at 1:52 AM, GODSPEED said:

I'm not really certain what you mean though. And my troll comment was really a joke!!

 

1.13 doesn't change anything from standard JA2. Any and ALL complexities they added or built on are completely and absolutely optional!

 

1.13 is more like an unofficial patch. The simple matter of being able to play JA2 but with a slightly higher resolution to scale with modern displays, in itself makes 1.13 a must.

 

Not only that, but 1.13 is a foundation. It's simply work that permitted the externilization of information to make modding easier. So, 1.13 is one of the most basic foundation for complete mods and simple map reworks.

 

Gold edition JA2 1.12 already was the start of it in a way, it upped the res and fixed stuff.

 

I'm not really sure why you are against 1.13 when it's what a mod should do.. Permit for harder difficulties, open up things that the original devs never had time to complete and permit more comfortable play on modern systems..

..all that while keeping JA2 absolutely intact!

 

 

 

Pretty sure it added weaponry along with vest slots too

[GODSPEED]

On 2/27/2022 at 7:02 AM, RedFox said:

Pretty sure it added weaponry along with vest slots too

Absolutely! I mean, its among the best parts of that mod for myself.. but even without that, you can start a new game without the Ton of Guns option to stick to original.. and it's simple enought to also keep the original inventory management.

There is very little reason to DISLIKE 1.13 as you can easily play pure vanilla but with a slightly better resolution only.

[saintpumpkin]

On 2/27/2022 at 1:00 PM, RedFox said:

If you've never played a mod don't trash it because it's not vanilla,you simply have no idea what your talking about and it makes you seem like a cancerous mole on the community here

I played and haven't like it. Don't be the community paladin here because is pathetic. Not everyone likes the same things.

Edited March 9, 2022 by saintpumpkin

[Fritz64]

On 10/13/2021 at 9:52 AM, GODSPEED said:

1.13 doesn't change anything from standard JA2. Any and ALL complexities they added or built on are completely and absolutely optional!

1.13 is more like an unofficial patch. The simple matter of being able to play JA2 but with a slightly higher resolution to scale with modern displays, in itself makes 1.13 a must.

To me detrimental and game breaking features of 1.13 include:

1) AP points and costs - which alters the flow of battles from the original

2) Inventory - making it overly complicated

3) Militia - also overly complex

The last build of 1.13 I played (years ago), these weren't optional so I gave up on it for good.  I now play Jagged Alliance 2 Stracciatella or the original JA on Steam for my fix.