CtH poll.

[Dr.Kuhn]

Just now, Xeth Nyrrow said:

*Looks at date of quoted post..*

2 months ago, wow. You just couldn't wait to give me grief after they followed my suggestion about banning toxic posters. But yet here you are again on another alt. Necro-ing my post is just more confirmation, sad.

I do enjoy that a dev actually came on this specific thread with threats against people like yourself that post baseless claims of others having sock accounts. I'm not sure which person you think I am, and I'm not sure whether to be flattered or insulted, but please, stay on topic, or, if there is a god, the dev's MIGHT actually follow through on giving YOU the perma-ban hammer.

[Xeth Nyrrow]

2 minutes ago, Dr.Kuhn said:

I do enjoy that a dev actually came on this specific thread with threats against people like yourself that post baseless claims of others having sock accounts. I'm not sure which person you think I am, and I'm not sure whether to be flattered or insulted, but please, stay on topic, or, if there is a god, the dev's MIGHT actually follow through on giving YOU the perma-ban hammer.

But yet you picked an off topic post of mine from 2 months to have further off topic conversations about?

The topic is dead, maybe they should lock this thread since we know it's able to be toggled via a mod they are releasing day 1.

[sandman25dcsss]

4 minutes ago, Xeth Nyrrow said:

The topic is dead, maybe they should lock this thread since we know it's able to be toggled via a mod they are releasing day 1.

Do we have an official confirmation of the mod? As far as I know the only source is some German gamestar review behind paywall.

Edited July 12, 2023 by sandman25dcsss

[Xeth Nyrrow]

2 minutes ago, sandman25dcsss said:

Do we have an official confirmation of the mod? As far as I know the only source is some German gamestar review behind paywall.

Fair question, but they know the answer here so they can control the messaging and explain it if they feel like it. Either way we know it's possible and coming.

[Stormfury]

Signed up to vote no.  Thank you so much Devs for giving us this!  I'm sure modders will add it in eventually so everyone wins, but for me. I prefer without.  I like the suggestions others have added too of removing more with toggles for turning them on, such as crit chance and HP. 

[5Cents]

Voted No.

Jagged Alliance was meant to play without because of the feeling, you have NOT access to every aspect and you should sweat about every decisicion.
"Will my merc survive my order to shot?"
Instead of
"Oh well, it was 100 % safe, so, i dont care, about that order. I KNOW he will meet the target."
Its like a super-computer playing chess against a human..annoying and boring, because you know the winner.

I like the concept of murphys law. In battle there is no law. The only one is that shit happens and plans go wrong most of the time.

Your Veteranelitesharpshooter missed the shot for an target about 5 feet away, for example. 😆

 

Edited July 12, 2023 by 5Cents

[sandman25dcsss]

There are games where you cannot have CtH greater than 95%. It is much better approach than hiding CtH despite it is 100%.

Edited July 13, 2023 by sandman25dcsss

[Rugged Coalition]

On 5/15/2023 at 2:57 AM, Godzilla said:

No conspiracy just asking questions.

Can you tell me why an account made in last 24 hours would be deeply familiar with an account that stopped posting 2 weeks ago?

Hi there, new user here! I can tell you. I've been lurking here since Gamescom 2022. What caught my eye was that you wrote this:

On 5/11/2023 at 8:34 AM, Godzilla said:

It will keep going on because removing cth is an extremely important and wrong design decision.

Im not saying the discussion has to continue but as far as Im concerned this is an error alongside other out of character, non strategic design choices like XCOM style hunker down abilities etc special talents and grit. It will stay an error because it is a part of the strategy. (might not even call it a strategy anymore just a CRPG with guns).

And since I've been following the arguments here, there's this one "peculiar" line of thought that keeps coming up.

(Many of these posts have been edited, but I'm going with the current form.)

This thread (started by anon474 on May 3rd)

where the OP says

Quote

1 Get rid of grit and freemove systems
...
4 Add CtH %.
...
13 PLEASE REMOVE these silly active abilities...
...That's so not WYSIWYG or realistic. And that's so CRPG-ified imo. Scrap ALL ABILITIES...

is then followed up by user KyleSimmons on May 4th:

Quote

This is a big list but from what I saw it's pretty good, abilities are very CRPG-y and not JA, in my opinion, and I don't understand why Grit was included as a mechanic.

and then followed up by user Woody 7 minutes later:

Quote

@anon474I agree with this list, I'm not saying I won't buy JA3 when it comes out or that the devs are in a position to change anything at this point, but I generally support the changes proposed here.

Strategy should imply strategy, a lot of design choices the dev team made with JA3 is more RPG and CRPG than strategy imo. Grit feels a bit too unrealistic for my liking.

(Godzilla shows up in this thread agreeing with the list as well.)

Then there's the infamous DevDiary6 thread with anon474 ranting about CTH being part of all tactics and strategy games and "turning JA into an RPG".

And I would like to highlight one more user, Elite77 on May 29th writing:

Quote

I much more care about real issues that I think are: ...no CTH, and how there's elements of a traditional RPG in JA3, to where you have abilities...

To me this raises few questions, first what genre do you think JA1, JA2 or JA3 are? Secondly, are developers forced to follow some genre laws when making games? Do you complain on From Software forums that they should have difficulty settings because that's what video games usually have?

Then generally you've been calling users stupid and having alts here on the forum, accused devs participating in this "positive spinning" and demanded devs apologize for their design decisions.

(In this heavily edited thread for instance:)

All this ad hominem really doesn't convince me. Every user here might be stupid and beerbuddies with the developers, but how is it relevant to question whether JA3 needs CTH or not? And part of this "argument" is this very weird comparison:

Quote

Do you remember Star Wars episode I?

Do you remember how delusional the fanbois were? And how they justified the movie long into the future, even as they themselves hated it?
This is that moment. You admit that changes have to be made and these are the changes. Or you dig your head in the sand and pretend everything's fine until its not.

If you would have spent any time reading what other people have said here, they're generally critical about many things in the game. (Portraits, inventory, burst/auto fire, explosion physics... and yes, those grit and ability mechanics too.) Also, I would like to point out that JA fans have lived through several disappointing releases since JA2, so I don't think that the comparison to Episode 1 release hype makes any sense.

Finally there actually might be a valid argument that goes something like this "Without CTH I don't have enough information to make tactical/strategic decision."... or that's what I think is being said. Even with this argument there's a weird tendency to build a strawman argument that people who don't like CTH should play the game blind. To me the situation seems the opposite, most players here want more information, namely the portraits and stamina and maybe expanding on these ideas from previous entries with more voice lines and such. To me all these CTH zealots only want that, they want to reduce the game into a black screen with % number showing so the player can decide whether to shoot or not.

This line of thinking is shown in the (p)reviews that complain about the confusing information, they blindly look at the modifiers and decide based on those whether to take a shot or not. Clearly the devs should have removed the modifiers too.

In my mind the only reason to include the CTH info is whether the tactical battles are too much like XCOM - like it seems with all the abilities and modifiers - so if the tactical battles are no longer having the same ambition and intent as they have in JA1 and JA2, they should probably execute this one with a shot in the back of the skull with showing CTH.

[MateKiddleton]

Quote

Clearly the devs should have removed the modifiers too.

I agree with this, not showing CtH in isolation but showing everything else just makes players focus on the one missing thing. In JA2 they show you nothing, no indication of your bonuses/maluses, so you don't really go looking for it. If they were brave enough, they should've experimented with hiding everything in combat. Or maybe they already did and decided not to do that.

[Raeven]

5 hours ago, Rugged Coalition said:

Hi there, new user here! I can tell you.

Wow. This was... masterful.

... now, can I get the time I spent arguing back?

[5Cents]

CTH Yes,CTH No, CTH Yes, CTH No, CTH Yes,...💤

I wont use it anyway, but
..did anybody else recognized the rumors devs invented an CTH tool available (at Steam) as soon as game starts..

[Potato]

On 7/12/2023 at 9:21 PM, sandman25dcsss said:

Do we have an official confirmation of the mod? As far as I know the only source is some German gamestar review behind paywall.

If anyone wants to know, you can already see the mod by clicking on the Workshop page on Steam.