Best long weapon - maybe FAMAS

[Jaywalker]

4 minutes ago, sandman25dcsss said:

Not that hard if you think about it. 

You underestimate who you're dealing with.

[sandman25dcsss]

1 minute ago, Jaywalker said:

You underestimate who you're dealing with.

Yes, you are right. 24 and 30 are similar values for him, despite I explicitly described these values and situation where it matters.

[Melliores]

FAMAS is the best general purpose weapon, hands down.

You can configure it as follows:

• bipod
• vertical grip
• quick prism scope (gives you automatic 3+ Aim if you shoot first)
• red dot (Marked status at 3+ Aim)
• silencer

Even 3+ Aim shot is a crit (!). It can make even the worst shot in the game a proper sniper when lying prone. Even if at 1 aim level (if you do not have the AP), you can still do a crit with Hollow point ammo when you hit. And you will hit targets in midrange. 🙂

A direct upgrade to it is the Steyr AUG, but that comes later and requires a lot more parts and effort. That said, the AUG has a legit sniper configuration which puts to shame most sniper rifles.

[Skaldy]

3 minutes ago, Melliores said:

FAMAS is the best general purpose weapon, hands down.

You can configure it as follows:

• bipod
• vertical grip
• quick prism scope (gives you automatic 3+ Aim if you shoot first)
• red dot (Marked status at 3+ Aim)
• silencer

Even 3+ Aim shot is a crit (!). It can make even the worst shot in the game a proper sniper when lying prone. Even if at 1 aim level (if you do not have the AP), you can still do a crit with Hollow point ammo when you hit. And you will hit targets in midrange. 🙂

A direct upgrade to it is the Steyr AUG, but that comes later and requires a lot more parts and effort. That said, the AUG has a legit sniper configuration which puts to shame most sniper rifles.

LOL, LMAO even.

You are right about AUG though with barrel mod it can out-range sniper rifles

[Melliores]

Let me introduce you to my anti-capitalist silent sniper:

Usually fires Hollow point 7,62 WP bought from the Fleatown market. Normal shot costs 4 AP, with Ivan you get 3 AP back on a kill. Normally you can do 4 fully aimed long bursts, later in game that raises to 6 fully aimed long bursts. If you do not want to aim it costs you only 1 AP per kill.

And because it has not one, but two good reliability bonuses, you can keep firing for a long time before the weapon condition drops below 70%. It is also very, very accurate thanks to the bipod and grip.

Edited July 28, 2023 by Melliores

[Skaldy]

2 hours ago, Melliores said:

Let me introduce you to my anti-capitalist silent sniper:

Usually fires Hollow point 7,62 WP bought from the Fleatown market. Normal shot costs 4 AP, with Ivan you get 3 AP back on a kill. Normally you can do 4 fully aimed long bursts, later in game that raises to 6 fully aimed long bursts. If you do not want to aim it costs you only 1 AP per kill.

And because it has not one, but two good reliability bonuses, you can keep firing for a long time before the weapon condition drops below 70%. It is also very, very accurate thanks to the bipod and grip.

ehm

[shadoww]

3 hours ago, Melliores said:

FAMAS is the best general purpose weapon, hands down.

You can configure it as follows:

• bipod
• vertical grip
• quick prism scope (gives you automatic 3+ Aim if you shoot first)
• red dot (Marked status at 3+ Aim)
• silencer

Even 3+ Aim shot is a crit (!). It can make even the worst shot in the game a proper sniper when lying prone. Even if at 1 aim level (if you do not have the AP), you can still do a crit with Hollow point ammo when you hit. And you will hit targets in midrange. 🙂

A direct upgrade to it is the Steyr AUG, but that comes later and requires a lot more parts and effort. That said, the AUG has a legit sniper configuration which puts to shame most sniper rifles.

sorry but what makes it better than ak-47? plus there are tons of 7.62 wp ammos while 5.56s are quite low. also smg doesnt have armor piercing as far as i know.

btw i am not sure about this armor piercing value too. in ja2 it was all ammo type but in this game weapons have armor piercings value too it seems.

Edited July 28, 2023 by shadoww

[sandman25dcsss]

8 minutes ago, shadoww said:

btw i am not sure about this armor piercing value too. in ja2 it was all ammo type but in this game weapons have armor piercings value too it seems.

Damage decrease from armor is shown by chance to hit mod, you can change weapon and see how it changes damage.

Edited July 28, 2023 by sandman25dcsss

[Melliores]

@shadoww

The FAMAS has the following perks compared to the AK-47:

• Better Aim bonus per each level - 4 (FAMAS) compared to 2 (AK-47)
• Can equip Quick Prism scope. This gives 3 Aim levels on your first shot every turn if you start with it.
• Requires 1 AP less to shoot. Single fire is 4 AP, Burst and Auto are 5.
• both weapons can equip a red dot, vertical grip and bipod

Let us take an average merc with 12 AP.

With the FAMAS they can make:

• First shot only costs 4 AP and has automatically 3 Aim levels. Due to the red dot it is a crit.
• Second shot can be either a single (7 AP) or burst (8 AP) at 3 AIM levels. Due to the red dot it is a crit.

 

On the other hand, the AK can do:

• First and only attack is either single (5+3=8 AP) or burst (6+3=9 AP) at 3 AIM levels. Due to the red dot it is a crit.
• Or they can go forgo the 3 Aim levels for the red dot and do 2 single shots at 1 aim level (for the vertical grip bonus) for 6 AP each.

The FAMAS is both faster and more accurate which is great for average shooters with little to average AP. Also due to the better accuracy they can be used as a pretty good stealth weapon for headshots up close. The FAMAS uses 5,56 NATO, which has Light penetration. Depending how east you go early in the game, you can actually find quite a lot of 5,56 rounds - they do less damage but the weapons that use these rounds tend to be a lot more accurate. Thus you will actually be saving on ammo because you will get more hits.

Regarding ammo penetration - each weapon uses the standard penetration for the caliber they use. The AK-74 is the sole exeption as far as I know here the base penetration is actually upgraded.

Edited July 28, 2023 by Melliores

[shadoww]

13 minutes ago, Melliores said:

@shadoww

The FAMAS has the following perks compared to the AK-47:

• Better Aim bonus per each level - 4 (FAMAS) compared to 2 (AK-47)
• Can equip Quick Prism scope. This gives 3 Aim levels on your first shot every turn if you start with it.
• Requires 1 AP less to shoot. Single fire is 4 AP, Burst and Auto are 5.
• both weapons can equip a red dot, vertical grip and bipod

Let us take an average merc with 12 AP.

With the FAMAS they can make:

• First shot only costs 4 AP and has automatically 3 Aim levels. Due to the red dot it is a crit.
• Second shot can be either a single (7 AP) or burst (8 AP) at 3 AIM levels. Due to the red dot it is a crit.

 

On the other hand, the AK can do:

• First and only attack is either single (5+3=8 AP) or burst (6+3=9 AP) at 3 AIM levels. Due to the red dot it is a crit.
• Or they can go forgo the 3 Aim levels for the red dot and do 2 single shots at 1 aim level (for the vertical grip bonus) for 6 AP each.

The FAMAS is both faster and more accurate which is great for average shooters with little to average AP. Also due to the better accuracy they can be used as a pretty good stealth weapon for headshots up close. The FAMAS uses 5,56 NATO, which has Light penetration. Depending how east you go early in the game, you can actually find quite a lot of 5,56 rounds - they do less damage but the weapons that use these rounds tend to be a lot more accurate. Thus you will actually be saving on ammo because you will get more hits.

Regarding ammo penetration - each weapon uses the standard penetration for the caliber they use. The AK-74 is the sole exeption as far as I know here the base penetration is actually upgraded.

but you are forgetting you can do base 40 damage with ak-47 while 24 with fa-mas. ak-47 is more relieable and have better armor penetration. plus fa-mas' reload cost more AP.

Edited July 28, 2023 by shadoww

[Melliores]

Nope, I am not forgetting that - both attacks with the FAMAS will be guaranteed crits. Anywhere from 25 to 40 damage or more depending on armour and body part. And one of the attacks with the FAMAS can be a burst as well.

You can have at minimum 2 crits per turn with a FAMAS on a merc with 60 Marksmanship. The same merc will have a very difficult time hitting something with that AK.

Edited July 28, 2023 by Melliores

[Skaldy]

8 minutes ago, Melliores said:

@shadoww

The FAMAS has the following perks compared to the AK-47:

• Better Aim bonus per each level - 4 (FAMAS) compared to 2 (AK-47)
• Can equip Quick Prism scope. This gives 3 Aim levels on your first shot every turn if you start with it.
• Requires 1 AP less to shoot. Single fire is 4 AP, Burst and Auto are 5.
• both weapons can equip a red dot, vertical grip and bipod

Let us take an average merc with 12 AP.

With the FAMAS they can make:

• First shot only costs 4 AP and has automatically 3 Aim levels. Due to the red dot it is a crit.
• Second shot can be either a single (7 AP) or burst (8 AP) at 3 AIM levels. Due to the red dot it is a crit.

 

On the other hand, the AK can do:

• First and only attack is either single (5+3=8 AP) or burst (6+3=9 AP) at 3 AIM levels. Due to the red dot it is a crit.
• Or they can go forgo the 3 Aim levels for the red dot and do 2 single shots at 1 aim level (for the vertical grip bonus) for 6 AP each.

The FAMAS is both faster and more accurate which is great for average shooters with little to average AP. Also due to the better accuracy they can be used as a pretty good stealth weapon for headshots up close. The FAMAS uses 5,56 NATO, which has Light penetration. Depending how east you go early in the game, you can actually find quite a lot of 5,56 rounds - they do less damage but the weapons that use these rounds tend to be a lot more accurate. Thus you will actually be saving on ammo because you will get more hits.

Regarding ammo penetration - each weapon uses the standard penetration for the caliber they use. The AK-74 is the sole exeption as far as I know here the base penetration is actually upgraded.

AK47 has cheaper auto fire(11 AP), AK47 does 2 more damage per bullet

FAMAS has 12 auto fire (12 AP), FAMAS doesnt

Regarding AK74, it is chambered to 5.45x39, in this game it isnt. IRL tests show AK47 has better penetration, AK74 better handling and accuracy.

 

[shadoww]

Just now, Melliores said:

Nope, I am not forgetting that - both attacks with the FAMAS will be guaranteed crits. Anywhere from 25 to 40 damage depending on armour and body part. And one of the attacks with the FAMAS can be a burst as well.

You can have at minimum 2 crits per turn with a FAMAS on a merc with 60 Marksmanship. The same merc will have a very difficult time hitting something with that AK.

yeah but i mostly cant use prism scope because i move a lot 🙂

Edited July 28, 2023 by shadoww

[Melliores]

@shadoww

Ah, that is the crux of the issue. 🙂

The weapon (FAMAS) performs admirably even in the hands of poor shooters. But you have to leave them in place prone (for the bipod) or at least crouched (if you want to use the Take cover action for extra AP on your next turn). This works great both in defense and offense, but it is a very static approach.

By the way, you can still use the quick prism scope if you first shoot, then move. Need a merc with good Agility though, as they tend to have a bigger Free move range.

@Skaldy

Using full auto on early game assault rifles is just a waste of ammo. You will need a very good merc specialized in autoweapons with high Marksmanship to even land 3 of those 15+ bullets.

The FAMAS can do more damage with single shots or single shot + control burst for the sole reason that those shots will actually hit the target. The accuracy is so good that you can even aim for the head and get a guaranteed crit.

And most importantly - any Merc can do this with a FAMAS, they do not need any perks or good Marksmanship.

Edited July 28, 2023 by Melliores

[shadoww]

10 minutes ago, Melliores said:

@shadoww

Ah, that is the crux of the issue. 🙂

The weapon (FAMAS) performs admirably even in the hands of poor shooters. But you have to leave them in place prone (for the bipod) or at least crouched (if you want to use the Take cover action for extra AP on your next turn). This works great both in defense and offense, but it is a very static approach.

By the way, you can still use the quick prism scope if you first shoot, then move. Need a merc with good Agility though, as they tend to have a bigger Free move range.

@Skaldy

Using full auto on early game assault rifles is just a waste of ammo. You will need a very good merc specialized in autoweapons with high Marksmanship to even land 3 of those 15+ bullets.

The FAMAS can do more damage with single shots or single shot + control burst for the sole reason that those shots will actually hit the target. The accuracy is so good that you can even aim for the head and get a guaranteed crit.

And most importantly - any Merc can do this with a FAMAS, they do not need any perks or good Marksmanship.

btw i just checked m16 it has 5 ap per shot and 6 aiming bonus. only thing gun doesnt fire auto.

edit: well it cant get bipod too.

Edited July 28, 2023 by shadoww

[Skaldy]

1 minute ago, Melliores said:

@shadoww

Ah, that is the crux of the issue. 🙂

The weapon (FAMAS) performs admirably even in the hands of poor shooters. But you need to leave them in place prone (for the bipod) or at least crouched (if you want to use the Take cover action for extra AP on your next turn). This works great both in defense and offense, but it is a very static approach.

By the way, you can still use the prism scope if you first shoot, then move. Need a merc with good Agility though, as they tend to have a bigger Free move range.

@Skaldy

Using full auto on early game assault rifles is just a waste of ammo. You will need a very good merc specialized in autoweapons with high Marksmanship to even land 3 of those 15+ bullets.

The FAMAS can do more damage with single shots or single shot + control burst for the sole reason that those shots will actually hit the target. The accuracy is so good that you can even aim for the head and get a guaranteed crit.

And most importantly - any Merc can do this with a FAMAS, they do not need any perks or good Marksmanship.

Early game FAMAS doesnt have ammo drop or supply. And no you dont, aim bonus difference is 2 and you are assuming too much. Red dot doesnt give crit right away since it applies marked on aim 3+, which makes every two shot crit.

AK47 with prisim gives that chance for first shot. Second shot is guarantee crit regardless of first

[J1v1n]

16 hours ago, Skaldy said:

no thank you, because discussion is about potential damage, regardless of skill to connect shots, which means we take connected shot damage, disregarding chance to hit. Hence weapon mods, in that regard are only effected by muzzle and stock mods....So assualt rfiles have same damage potential, meaning upgraded FN-FAL will still have higher damage than upgraded FAMAS

not that hard if you think about it.

That is were you are wrong in more than just one way @Skaldy. The discussion was about the best weapon not just damage and then centered all around the table @chr_isso posted which includes all different stats of a weapon including range. Therefore also modifications are relevant because a weapon that allows more/better modifications can better be adjusted to your needs and better serves your purpose. Perks instead are not part of the weapon itself about which this discussion is, so that argument is invalid, so wrong again. Finally, your third false statement was that all these weapons have identical modifications. It's silly enough to act like a brainiac when you know a lot but when you don't know a lot and act like that it's just ridiculous or in your words: "Not that hard if you think about it.". 🤣

[Povok]

On 7/27/2023 at 10:36 PM, marcinl0 said:

what do you think

I think it's better to use FAMAS for spare parts rather than long range shooting.

[moqueur]

I don't really see how FAMAS can possibly qualify for being the best weapon even in its own class. I mean almost every assault rifle of the same calibre outperforms it at least to some extent. Okay, I didn't play much with M16A2 and AR15 but both AUG and G36 have been a vital part of my builds in different runs and on different difficulty settings. Both have the same basic AP cost as FAMAS but boast better range, aiming bonus and damage. And most importantly they accept better modifications.

G36 is actually my personal choice. With extended barrel it gets 8 aiming bonus and 36 range. Adding UV dot and vertical grip turns it into a beast. Single shot with 2x aiming bonus for 4 AP means an experienced merc with high agility, dexterity and marksmanship can land 4 headshots in one turn in mid-range combat without save scumming. With stealth bonuses every headshot may be lethal. And even if not — 2 headshots are usually enough to kill an aware enemy so you are getting from 2 to 4 kills with a single merc in one turn. The only downside is that the rifle doesn't accept prism scope to get even more accuracy on your first shot — but it actually doesn't need any more accuracy.

AUG is a good backup weapon for a heavy sniper when things go south. Lower damage output and the absence of some crucial modification options are actually balanced by the short barrel option. It means you need only 3 AP for a single shot and 4 AP for a burst resulting in having 5 quick single shots or 4 short bursts a turn. The long barrel build shown above looks interesting as well and I think I'm gonna try it — though I believe the lack of UV dot is likely to prevent the gun from landing headshots as fast and steadily as G36 does.

Still everything really depends on your playstyle and skill choice. I personally never use auto fire mode with assault rifles and rarely do bursts but some people may find it boring. And if we are discussing the best long weapon in game — current balance favours LMGs and sniper rifles so I believe the best one is either HK21 or PSG1 depending on your playstyle. Out of assault rifles only I would actually nominate FN FAL.

FAL has the same high damage output as AK-74, same AP cost and same aiming bonus. The difference is that its range and aiming bonus can be boosted by installing a long barrel. It also accepts both mod combinations that I find to be the most useful — heavy stock + prism scope and UV dot + vertical grip. Muzzle slot allows you to fine tune the rifle either for loud or for silent use choosing between silencer and recoil booster. The possibility to add an ergonomic expanded mag and a bipod is not that crucial in my books but still those are nice things to have. Last but not least, FAL is available very early and very cheap.

[J1v1n]

These are some good insights, thank you. 🤩

[Jaywalker]

17 hours ago, Melliores said:

With the FAMAS they can make:

• First shot only costs 4 AP and has automatically 3 Aim levels. Due to the red dot it is a crit.
• Second shot can be either a single (7 AP) or burst (8 AP) at 3 AIM levels. Due to the red dot it is a crit.

That's not exactly how the Red dot works, it sets Marked on a Aim 3+ shot, but that shot will not be a crit itself, you need to make a followup that hits to consume the mark and score a crit (anyone can do it, not just the original shooter).

[Melliores]

@Jaywalker
Yep, that is correct. Which makes the ability to actually fire two times per turn (or even 3 if you do not want to aim) all the more valuable.

You can also use the red dot to set up an enemy for another heavy hitter. A good combo is aim for the groin and then let someone else finish the enemy. Works with explosives as well.

[Warmonger]

I fully dislike the FAMAS. I always destroy them. My special is the Anaconda, with some upgrade a nice 2nd weapon for a MG-gunner. And over all I like the MG 42. I was group gunner with it in our Army (Bundeswehr) where it was called MG 3. I really feel at home with it and we shoot the 7,62 mm which also know as 308 Winchester. It has the same sound like in the game specially when you are in woods with it firing. 😉 

 

Edited July 30, 2023 by Warmonger

[5Cents]

On 7/28/2023 at 5:25 PM, shadoww said:

i am open for suggestions as i didnt like any submachine/assault rifle until now. m-14, m-16, commando, fn-fal, ak-47, fa-mas, mp5. they all  look useless to me.

 

On 7/28/2023 at 11:36 AM, Skaldy said:

sniper rifle+ hollow point ammo can single-handedly carry the entire game. Hence best long range weapons are sniper rifles. 6 mercs with sniper rifles and corresponding ammo+perks can clean maps in few minutes

For me the same. I dumped almost all AR weapons. They were almost completly useless for me, because the reduced damage, when shooting burst/auto.

(Apart from beeing absolutely unrealistic) which isnt a game fault, they were meaningless. Why should invest APs, when damage is reduced and its unlikely the bullets will hit.

Apart from they are good for singleshots, because less APs to spend, but again, not as precise and less damage than Rifles. And if merc has a perk or observes he will spend a lot of bullets, with no or few effect.

The only good AR for me, was the good old antiquated  modified FAL bought in Grandmas Shop (cause deadliness + bearable range).
All the rest was only pure trash for me.

But mostly, in later game, my merc worked with m24 anyway.

 

[sandman25dcsss]

1 minute ago, 5Cents said:

 

For me the same. I dumped almost all AR weapons. They were almost completly useless for me, because the reduced damage, when shooting burst/auto.

(Apart from beeing absolutely unrealistic) which isnt a game fault, they were meaningless. Why should invest APs, when damage is reduced and its unlikely the bullets will hit.

Apart from they are good for singleshots, because less APs to spend, but again, not as precise and less damage than Rifles. And if merc has a perk or observes he will spend a lot of bullets, with no or few effect.

The only good AR for me, was the good old antiquated  modified FAL bought in Grandmas Shop (cause deadliness + bearable range).
All the rest was only pure trash for me.

But mostly, in later game, my merc worked with m24 anyway.

 

I use a mod with full damage for burst/autofire, arguably it makes game harder because many enemies use burst. My mercs were killed by single burst many times when I made tactical mistakes.

Assault rifles can be quite precise, my best merc switched to using assault rifle to kill 2 enemies per turn, she starts fight with 12 AP and has 100% CtH without aiming so sniper rifle for 7 AP is no longer the best. But then CtH mod really helps to make decision about the switch.